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Thread: Who or What is "father"?

  1. #16
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Luckas's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Quote Originally Posted by eni
    hm, I doubt that Hohenheim is a homunculus.

    What du you think about the mind/soul-theory written at wikipedia?
    -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphons...In_the_Manga_4
    Very interesting.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member chvis002's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Quote Originally Posted by glasskatana
    I think Ed's dad was spawned from him. That or their twins and the father is what you'd call an evil twin.
    I think it's the other way around, Eds dad seems to normal to be spawned. Mayby Eds dad did som kind of alchemy (involving the gate) and his body cloned itshelf except the soul, but i may be be out on deep water.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner 5enbonzakur4's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    okay... im new here... but i love fma and this is my theory...
    hoenheim is the first, most pefect homunculus that father created. so perfect, that he can age, perform alchsmy, and have children. so perfect that he undestands the the consequences of human alchemy and believes they are wrong. Because of this intelligence, he goes insane. i dont quite remember the chapter in which hoenheim visits pinako rockbell, but there he tells her that the country will soon be ravaged by war. i can only assume tht he is close to finding the ultimate "truth" which will allow him to use alchemy at a level like father.

    the reason why father was able to prevent ed/al's alchemy was because they were using AMESTRIAN ALCHEMY!!! DUH! scar's brother brought back alchemy from Xing. Thus, isbalan alchemy, and the alchemy from xing are different from that of Amestris. Father, not expecting this, did not negate their alchemy too...
    thats my theory.

  4. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member chvis002's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    I've been thinking. What if it's much more simple than all this. Does it really have to be some thing with gates, transmution and stuff? The manga is so different from the anime, it's more bibleish as absolutio most eloquently put it. If the Homunculus (seven deadly sins) where to be detroyed the way christans belive the would, (read topic Fated Punishment) why shouldn't they be created by who ("Father") the christians believe created the original sins?

    I mean, this dude creats stuff out of nothing, and he does it with out movement. His "twin" Hohenheim (which mean something like higher adminstrator, but I could be wrong) get shot mulitple times (ch 46) without geting mad about it and forgives the villain. When Ed (or Al and Izumi) does alchemy Jing points out that it's almost as he's praying. Yes, I'm talking about God and the Devil. God did have a son in the bible, but i don't think that satan had one.

    However, this theory has its problems. Why would Hohenheim call himshelf a monster (ch 46)? And depending on how you see things it was God who created sin. Some people also believe that the Devil can't creat things, just destroy. It depends on how you read the bible I presume... The bible isn't really my strong subjekt

  5. #20
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Father is most likely the another part of Hohenheim
    meaning that Hohenheim must've been created from Father but is like the good part of him or it could be that they were one..
    but Father seperated his good side...from himself....
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  6. #21
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    I think that Hohenhiem is a homonculus beacause
    Spoiler show

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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    umm...
    well according to the way Envy was speaking it seems like Father the one who taught Amerstrians their alchemy
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Quote Quote:
    Quote from: wikipedia
    It is also a possibility that Hohenheim is the soul of the creature, "Father" is the mind, and there is a decaying Hohenheim-like body somewhere in Amestris. Hohenheim seems to have no reaction to being shot, thus his mind or soul is attached to that body (He doesn't feel anything, same as Alphonse). He may have picked a body to transplant his soul into that looked very much like his own so that Trisha wouldn't be alarmed when he magically changed skin colours or caused some other dramatic instance. It could even be his own brother or relative. Because of this, there is a possibility of Hohenheim reappearing in the storyline, but without any memory of his meetings with Ed. This would be the 'mind' part of him. His mind, soul, and body could have been separated while trying to create the Philosopher's stone or any other insane Alchemic action. This is all mearly speculation however, as Hohenhiem has never mentioned that he has any vital relation to "Father", although he does seem to know what "Father" is up to.
    I agree with this for the most part, except I think that the body is simply split between the mind and the soul, hence the similar looks. I also think that the split occurred many years ago, way before he married Trisha and had Ed and Al. As for the powers, i think that they were both spawned from truth, or the gate itself.

  9. #24
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member mikio's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    I agree with part of that theory. I think that Hoenheim and Father were originally the same person, a Xersean(i don't know if it's correct :P), more precisely the one that trasmuted himself and all of his people in order to create a giant philosofer's stone and become God(see old chapters, when ed was in gluttony's stomach); he managed to create the stone but something went wrong, so it lost its body, his mind and soul were split, and both of them entered in a new body. Its mind became Hoenheim, who uses some xersean soul to live, while its soul became Father, who uses the philosofer's stone in order to survive. Because their original body was destroyed, they can't age. For some reasons that i don't know, Father needs another giant stone(which is more perfect than the ones which belong to the homunculi, so Father can also tramute without moving) so he created Amestris and taught people how to use alchemy. He is the legendary eastern sage who formulated the equation of alchemy(see Marcoh talking about), and i think that all Amestrian alchemy derives from his own power, which is the reason why he could stop the Elrics' alchemy, but not rentanjutsu.

    I have a bug in this theory and it is who taught xingians rentanjutsu. I think it was a xersean, but i can't tell who, maybe Hoenheim but i doubt strongly.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by mikio; June 26, 2007 at 06:25 PM.
    P.S. Sorry for my ugly English


  10. #25
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    I think maybe Father "made" another version of him. But like Ed he was rebellious and left Father and decided to travel. He meets trisha and fell in love with her...blah, blah. Realizes father's plan and is trying to stop it.
    "I intend to live forever or die trying"
    ~Groucho Marx

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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    My theory is that Hohenheim and Father are/were brothers, and that in the time before recorded history they managed to somehow render themselves immortal through unspecified means. They then went their separate ways - Father to what became Amestris, Hohenheim to Xing. Envy was the fourth Homunculus created; his stone contains the citizens of Xerxes - I figure that to mean that there were other ancient civilisations that Father targeted to make Pride, Lust and Greed. Either that or the Xerxes populace are fueling all of the Homunculi plus Father and Hohenheim - thus the reason behind the giant array of Amestris, to refuel Father and possibly rid himself of a potential thorn in his side.

  12. #27
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner riice's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Well, chapter 75 basically explains it all.
    Spoiler show

    I'm guessing that all those souls were one hell of a passage fee, which gave both Father and VH immense knowledge of alchemy - which is why both can now transmute without any motion (i guess it's a step up from the hand clapping?).

    When Mei and Marcoh were discussing alchemy/rentanjutsu, Marcoh said alchemy derives its power from the movement of lava underground (or something like that). Mei then disagreed and said it felt more like souls moving around.

    My guess - Mei is right and there's souls somewhere underground, powering Amestris' alchemy. That day, Father was able to stop alchemy by stopping the movement of souls, thus cutting off the power source.

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  14. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Absolutio's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Quote Originally Posted by riice View Post
    Well, chapter 75 basically explains it all.
    Spoiler show

    I'm guessing that all those souls were one hell of a passage fee, which gave both Father and VH immense knowledge of alchemy - which is why both can now transmute without any motion (i guess it's a step up from the hand clapping?).

    When Mei and Marcoh were discussing alchemy/rentanjutsu, Marcoh said alchemy derives its power from the movement of lava underground (or something like that). Mei then disagreed and said it felt more like souls moving around.

    My guess - Mei is right and there's souls somewhere underground, powering Amestris' alchemy. That day, Father was able to stop alchemy by stopping the movement of souls, thus cutting off the power source.
    Knowing the answer to that will explain what's so weird with Amestris alchemy, that the alchemists didn't notice through all these years.. My guess was something like yours, more or less.. Souls of the dead empowering the gate, thus empowering alchemy. And father simply closed the gate (it exists withing him), so no flow of energy could've reached alchemists, therefore they couldn't use their alchemy.
    While on the other hand, the rentenjutsu, or w/e its called, relies on the power of the earth. Something like a Druid's magic.. So that's why even father can't stop it.


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  16. #29
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    Quote Originally Posted by glasskatana View Post
    Don't worry. Chapters for FMA are a full month apart. If it's not from the most recent chapter it probably won't be considered a spoiler.

    Anyway, he managed to stop all the alchemy around a certain area. Maybe even within the whole of Amestris. I think he's a normal human who found his way to the gate and managed to perform alchemy within the gate. He now has a part of the gate within his own body and this is where he houses all those philosopher's stones. Also, I believe that he infuses the philosopher's stones with his "sin" or emotion to give them a personality. Since he has no 'sin' and since he has become part of the 'truth' he considers hiimself a higher being. That's my theory in a nutshell.
    actually he can't be human, cause if he was then Scar would have been able to disintegrate him when he touched him. Alchemy builds on understanding first which means understanding what something is made of and because Scar didn't understand his composition his transmute nearly backfired on him.

    My guess is that he is actually nothing more than a lifeform fused with the stone similar to what Van hohenheim most likely is.
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    - Bible, Book of revelations 13,18, referance to the comming of satan.


  17. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner mutafaca's Avatar
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    Re: Who or What is "father"?

    i agree with riice opinion.
    chapter 75 explained about it in detail.

    Father(Hoenheim) = 1st homunculus = Copied VH body for himself

    V. Hoenheim = Slave Number 23 = Elric's Father

    Ultimately, both of them are philosopher's stone from Xerses transmutation (explaining the ability to transmute with any motion).
    Last edited by mutafaca; March 11, 2008 at 04:09 AM.

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