Venezuela to develop nuclear energy with Russia

[miyi]

Let me just say, in short, that Russia is overtly trying to re-assert its power, and they're taking advantage now, since America is currently at a weakened position, both economically, and militarily.

They'll use Iran, Venezuela, maybe even align with China, as chess pieces to counter-balance US and Europe's power.....foreign policy analysts have a term for this - it's called: "multi-polarity".


Yep...we're heading towards...it seems like, another Cold War.

Venezuela to develop nuclear energy with Russia
(Agencies)
Updated: 2008-09-29 14:58


CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that Russia will help Venezuela develop nuclear energy, a move likely to raise US concerns over increasingly close cooperation between Caracas and Moscow.

Chavez said he accepted an offer from Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin for assistance in building a nuclear reactor.

"Russia is ready to support Venezuela in the development of nuclear energy with peaceful purposes and we already have a commission working on it," Chavez said. "We are interested in developing nuclear energy."

Putin offered Chavez assistance in developing nuclear energy during a meeting in the Russian city of Novo-Ogaryovo last week. The prime minister did not specify what kind of cooperation he could offer Venezuela, but Russia is promoting itself as a builder of nuclear power plants in developing nations.

Russia has strenghened its cooperation with Venezuela since last month's war with Georgia in response to Georgia's move in S.Ossettia.

During Chavez's visit to Russia last week, a Russian naval squadron sailed for the Caribbean Sea in preparation for joint exercises with Venezuela later this year, a move that appeared retaliatory after the US sent warships to deliver aid to Georgia.

The deployment is expected to represent the largest Russian naval maneuvers in the Caribbean, and perhaps the Western Hemisphere, since the Cold War.

Chavez says that stronger ties with Russia will help build a multi-polar world.

Since 2005, Venezuela has agreed to buy more than US$4.4 billion worth of weapons from Russia including fighter jets, combat helicopters, and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles. And President Dmitry Medvedev has offered Chavez a loan to purchase additional weapons.

Chavez argues the United States and European Union do not have the right to prevent developing countries from pursuing nuclear technology, and he has strongly defended Iran's nuclear program despite the Western powers' fear that Tehran may be building nuclear weapons.

Before taking Russia up on its offer, Chavez had expressed interest in acquiring a nuclear reactor from Argentina and working with Iran, among other countries, to research nuclear energy.

Source: China Daily

[segua]

It's not another Cold War because the U.S. cannot compete with Russian financially. If the U.S. cannot even do that, how can it compete with Russia militarily, academically, scholarly and even athletically? The U.S. just can't.

Russia has gain strength in the past decade. Creating new fighter jets, submarines and even new missiles. I don't know if most people even know about that? The Bear is back and it's going to maul anyone that's going to stand in its' way.

The U.S. has been trying to gain a strategic stronghold in the Middle East while Russia is strategically making allies across the globe. Basically, the U.S. spreads itself thin trying to protect its' international interests, whereas Russia will use diplomacy to protect and defend its' international interests.

[mc404]

@segua

I don't agree with your point about United States not being able to compete with Russia economically or militarily. Example after example has proved your point to be wrong. I will states fact here but if you were interested in my sources, I can provide them to you.

Militarily United States alone spends almost 40% of total military budget around the world. Russian army, in particular its navy and Air force, has been is an almost catastrophic conditions since the end of Cold War. Recently with Russia investing in infrastructures and rising oil prices, they had the opportunity to once again invest in their army. I'm happy for them because they deserve to regain their status as a super power and one that has to be negotiated with and not ignored.

Russia is on its way to recovery; however, it is a painful way. One that, in my opinion, will be very rewarding for them in the end and I do hope they succeed in that process. What we lack regarding Russia understands their positions and their point of view in international relations. We in the West do not and have not tried to see our interests in the same line as their. They have always been enemies and as long as this attitude remains, they will remain isolated. What the original poster and I disagree with in this thread is the fundamental fact that Russia is not an enemy. The notion that the new Cold War is about to start because of Russian actions is not only ridiculous and ludicrous but also dangerous and disappointing.

Russians do not want war and destruction. They want a peaceful country and excellent relations with their neighbors. However, they regard themselves as a super power that needs to be counted in international crisis not a bully who wants to start wars. That is what our administration don’t understand. That is what many people in the west don’t want to realize.

Also, what United States failed to realize in the last 8 years was the fact that no matter how powerful you are, it is not possible to act like an imperial power in the post imperial world. You cannot sanction, ignore and fight with the whole world while your own economy is struggling at home. Depending on who becomes the next president of United States, we will either recover from this economic disaster or fail miserably.

United States is not in its last days as a super power. We have had worse situations and we proved that we can come back. Two wars are taking their tolls on the economy. But we’ll be back. We haven’t gone anywhere, we’re still there and will remain there for years to come.

[miyi]

What the original poster and I disagree with in this thread is the fundamental fact that Russia is not an enemy. The notion that the new Cold War is about to start because of Russian actions is not only ridiculous and ludicrous but also dangerous and disappointing.

Russians do not want war and destruction. They want a peaceful country and excellent relations with their neighbors. However, they regard themselves as a super power that needs to be counted in international crisis not a bully who wants to start wars. That is what our administration don’t understand. That is what many people in the west don’t want to realize.

So you deny that Russia is asserting it's power?

I'm not saying we need to engage in war ("cold war" does not necessarily imply actual, physical war)...I'm merely observing that in fact, Russia is consolidating power as evidenced a few months ago when they invaded Georgia (for energy), and they've assisted Iran's nuclear facilities in the past, and they're doing so again, this time in Venezuela.

Unless you can discount all of these facts, I will submit to you, that perhaps Russia is just merely being peaceful and wants harmony with the world. But the facts point in the other direction.

Russia is pursuing its national interests, as naturally what states typically do. I don't begrudge them for that.

But at the same time, there are ways to re-assert power without threatening our allies (Georgia), and creating all this unnecessary tensions, assisting Venezuela, knowing they are hostile to America....that's called back-stabbing (remember that President Bush once told Vlad Putin, that he was able to get a sense of his "soul").

and if you still think Russia's current actions are for peaceful means, then you obviously have an immense threshold for optimism.

Also, what United States failed to realize in the last 8 years was the fact that no matter how powerful you are, it is not possible to act like an imperial power in the post imperial world. You cannot sanction, ignore and fight with the whole world while your own economy is struggling at home. Depending on who becomes the next president of United States, we will either recover from this economic disaster or fail miserably.

United States is not in its last days as a super power. We have had worse situations and we proved that we can come back. Two wars are taking their tolls on the economy. But we’ll be back. We haven’t gone anywhere, we’re still there and will remain there for years to come.

I agree with you that America will recover, although I won't deny the fact that America is weakening.

I disagree that we tried to "fight with the whole world"....unless you equate Iraq and Afghanistan as representing the entire world.

Yes, we are undergoing economic difficulties, but you assume that if McCain wins the Presidency, we will fail miserably (in economy).........and yet you contradict yourself by saying, we will recover and we've had "worse situations" before.

I don't know which side you are on.

[segua]

@mc404: I don't know how well the military spends their money, but I think you forgot to calculate in how devastating the bail out will do in the future of the economic state of the U.S. That's why I concluded that the U.S. cannot compete with Russia economically. If U.S. can't compete economically in the long run, how will it compete militarily? The upkeep of a modern military is very expensive and there has been fears in the military leadership about death spirals. With this absurd passing of this supposed bail-out, the U.S. has just guaranteed it's own demise. And when that demise come, it's going to be long and painful.

I also disagree that Russia is not an enemy. There is a struggle for resources at the moment. With the U.S.'s actions in the Middle East and the U.S. indirect involvement in Georgia, the U.S. has pitted Russia as the enemy. I don't believe that it's going to be another Cold War or an arms buildup.

Lastly, I don't mind seeing those sources.

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

I don't see what's wrong with Russia re-asserting its power, as USA and Europe would try to do the same.
If American, Britain, France, etc are allowed to have power, you can't balme other countries such as Iran, China, etc for wanting power. It's not necessarily a good vs evil thing.

Russia may use the power the wrong way. But many countries in the Middle East think America abuse their power as a powerful nation.

Regarding Iran developing nuclear power, let's remember they need it to generate electricity, you can however say they'e evil, but the facts support the claim that they need the nuclear power for their own well being as a country.

[redcometfm]

I don't see what's wrong with Russia re-asserting its power, as USA and Europe would try to do the same.
If American, Britain, France, etc are allowed to have power, you can't balme other countries such as Iran, China, etc for wanting power. It's not necessarily a good vs evil thing.

Russia may use the power the wrong way. But many countries in the Middle East think America abuse their power as a powerful nation.

Regarding Iran developing nuclear power, let's remember they need it to generate electricity, you can however say they'e evil, but the facts support the claim that they need the nuclear power for their own well being as a country.

A) Its not good when morally ambiguous countries such as China (arms dealing to Darfur genocide) and Russia (dangerous invasion of Georgia in attempt to re-gain for Soviet power) attempt to attain high power.

B) Countries in the Middle East think the US abuses its power because it HAS power. Its a simple jealousy issue since they feel theyre the destined superior race.

C) Iran can use that technology and enriched uranium to construct nuclear weapons. Not a good idea in the hands of a country whose leader and secular government wants to wipe Israel out of physical existence.

Please dont be naive with lasseiz atttitude and think a little.

[miyi]

I don't see what's wrong with Russia re-asserting its power, as USA and Europe would try to do the same.
If American, Britain, France, etc are allowed to have power, you can't balme other countries such as Iran, China, etc for wanting power. It's not necessarily a good vs evil thing.

Russia may use the power the wrong way. But many countries in the Middle East think America abuse their power as a powerful nation.

Regarding Iran developing nuclear power, let's remember they need it to generate electricity, you can however say they'e evil, but the facts support the claim that they need the nuclear power for their own well being as a country.

like I said, I don't have any issue with Russia re-asserting their power, and for that matter, any country...whether it's Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, or whoever.

I'm a realist, I see the world as a struggle for power, and it's just the way the world works. And precisely because I'm a realist, I think the only way that America can preserve its own interests, is to try to counter Russia's actions, and there's lots of ways to do it, aside from war (or diplomacy), i.e. compete for energy resource, etc.

What I did in this post is to recognize the fact that Russia is on its way to asserting their power and influence in Asia/East Europe (Georgia), and now going even as far into Latin America, America's underbelly (Venezuela).

To deny none of this is happening is silly.

and let me explain briefly why this can evolve into a future nuclear arms race...

Russia is already trying to encroach into America's backyard (Venezuela), but let's just talk about the Middle East, for now.

Iran....if Iran obtains nuclear capability (whether or not it's for weapons use, or for "peace", does not even matter), it's going to spark a nuclear arms race, because:

Saudi Arabia will try to counter-balance Iran's power (Saudi is a majority Sunni; Iran is Shia)

then Egypt, Jordan, Syria, did I mention Pakistan already has one? and they are next door to India, which also has one? and that both India and Pakistan are historical rivals (there's a fear that if both go to war, it will be a nuclear war).

It's such a volatile situation, we cannot tolerate it to happen.

And now it's Venezuela....Latin America is as fractured as the Middle East....there's so much rivalry, and once Venezuela gets nukes, you can expect Columbia to get one, and then Ecuador, and so on....domino-effect...within America's own backyard.



The argument I keep hearing, that goes something like:

USA has nukes, therefore, other countries deserve to have one too......it's just dumb.

that's not the point.

It's not an issue of "haves" or "have nots"....this isn't monopoly money....it's nuclear capability. which affects the entire world.

did I mention North Korea? just the fragility of East Asia alone...with Japan debating whether they should strengthen their military again (which they've abandoned since WWII).......and the divided Korea? China with Taiwan? Asia has its share of rivalries, and it can get nasty quick.


So we can continue to be Utopic and pretend that Russia and Iran and Venezuela are all hungry for "peace" and "harmony", or we can recognize what is happening, and see if there's a way we can prevent this nuclear proliferation.

If its "energy" that these countries truly seek, is it so much to ask that they provide proof that it really is for energy, and not weapons-capable?

I mean, seriously...how hard can it be?

[◆ T.D.A ◆]

A) Its not good when morally ambiguous countries such as China (arms dealing to Darfur genocide) and Russia (dangerous invasion of Georgia in attempt to re-gain for Soviet power) attempt to attain high power.

B) Countries in the Middle East think the US abuses its power because it HAS power. Its a simple jealousy issue since they feel theyre the destined superior race.

C) Iran can use that technology and enriched uranium to construct nuclear weapons. Not a good idea in the hands of a country whose leader and secular government wants to wipe Israel out of physical existence.

Please dont be naive with lasseiz atttitude and think a little.

Well as usual there are two sides to a story. Some claim South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia which lead to Georgia invading South Ossetia killing thousands of people and creating many more refugees, which resulted in Russia going there to sort things out. This isn't my view just another view on that conflict. It comes down to how the media portray things, it's fine to believe what the media says in your country, but then again you can never be sure if they are showing what's really going on, then again you can't prove that they are. The only way is to acutally be at that place yourself, to experience it yourself.

Ok, let's assume Iran want to construct nuclear weapons, but at the same time remember that Iran need the energy, should Iran stop conducting nuclear power, which would result in innocent Iranian civilians suffering? Either way Iran loses, unless they are given international backing which I don't think is happening for obvious reasons.

I'm not being naive, I'm just open to different views and not trying to make out who's good and who's evil.

USA has nukes, therefore, other countries deserve to have one too......it's just dumb.

Well as long as America has nukes, other countries will always want them. The only way to stop other countries such as China, Russia, Iran, etc from wanting and developing nukes, is for countries such as Britain, USA, France, etc to give up their nukes.(which I don''t know how, and if they did would probably cause other problems) Obviously this ain't gonna happen, so obviously, let's say other countries will want them. It's a fact of life. Back in the day, only a few privileged people were able to own cars, but naturally, others who weren't so privileged wanted to own a car. When they had the resources to buy a car, they did so. It's like that with nukes. Again, like I said, it's a fact of life, and yes it might suck that it's in the concept of nuclear weapons and wars, but hey I'm just trying to be a realist.

[Agrias]

And now it's Venezuela....Latin America is as fractured as the Middle East....there's so much rivalry, and once Venezuela gets nukes, you can expect Columbia to get one, and then Ecuador, and so on....domino-effect...within America's own backyard.

Well, as someone who lives in Latin America and is really interested on the way things work around here, i can only see this affirmation as an enormous exaggeration, sorry. Our kind of problems are completely different than Middle East ones, and we aren't - i stress that - fractured AT ALL. Of course every country has its own interests down here, we have our disagreements (btw there's a huge thing going on between Brazil and Ecuador right now, heh), but in the end - as it was proved with the recent Ecuador / Colombia affair - everything is always solved with diplomacy, with help from the entire region, and we're glad for that. Be sure of one thing - if Venezuela wants nukes, they're not to be used around here. No one even cares.

We are united; we depend of each other in every sense. This is something obvious after years of studying our relations at school or reading our news - i dunno how our affairs are pictured outside (probably only the disagreements are shown), so I can't really blame you.

In the end, i can sum it all like this: no one is stupid, we are all poor, no one wins anything wasting precious money for bombing each other. It may look "utopic", but it's plain simple and real. And it has always worked very well, things were starting to get better, till some uninvited extras came to play. But i wont discuss this matter.

[Belisar]

So you deny that Russia is asserting it's power?

I'm not saying we need to engage in war ("cold war" does not necessarily imply actual, physical war)...I'm merely observing that in fact, Russia is consolidating power as evidenced a few months ago when they invaded Georgia (for energy), and they've assisted Iran's nuclear facilities in the past, and they're doing so again, this time in Venezuela.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

sorry but i couldn't help it. you are a typical victim of your "democratic" media. ^^
russia invaded georgia for energy? dude, russia has more gas, oil and another energy materials (coal, wood) than europe and china together. maybe even more. i won't discuss it because it's late but i say you in advance: georgia tried ethnic cleansing on ossetian folk. if you want to know more, read the news about this war and not only american ones.

is it wrong to help a nation to create electric power? they can't always stay behind in the progress and they shouldn't. you know, they better help with economy than with wars like the usa.

Unless you can discount all of these facts, I will submit to you, that perhaps Russia is just merely being peaceful and wants harmony with the world. But the facts point in the other direction.

Russia is pursuing its national interests, as naturally what states typically do. I don't begrudge them for that.

But at the same time, there are ways to re-assert power without threatening our allies (Georgia), and creating all this unnecessary tensions, assisting Venezuela, knowing they are hostile to America....that's called back-stabbing (remember that President Bush once told Vlad Putin, that he was able to get a sense of his "soul").

and if you still think Russia's current actions are for peaceful means, then you obviously have an immense threshold for optimism.

ohhhh because they are your allies nobody can't touch them? is it so? the almighty usa protect them.... i bet russia forgot about that fact and now they feel very sorry.....

tensions? hmmm.... what about your antimissile system in east europe? no tensions there? no back-stabbing? should russia deploy some missile systems in cuba again? what would you feel like? i bet you would feel very reassuring, would you not?
i mean it is clear that if iran will ever have some nuclear missiles, they would immediately fire them at europe and not their archenemy israel.

russia want a war as badly as you are. trust me.

I agree with you that America will recover, although I won't deny the fact that America is weakening.

I disagree that we tried to "fight with the whole world"....unless you equate Iraq and Afghanistan as representing the entire world.

Yes, we are undergoing economic difficulties, but you assume that if McCain wins the Presidency, we will fail miserably (in economy).........and yet you contradict yourself by saying, we will recover and we've had "worse situations" before.

I don't know which side you are on.

1950 -> korea
1956 -> suez, egypt
1958-1963 -> taiwan
1960-1962 -> kongo
1962 - 1963 -> cuba
1962 - 1971 -> north vietnam, south vietnam
1965 - 1966 -> dominican republic, south vietnam
1965 - 1970 -> southeast asia, south vietnam
1967 -> middle east
1970 -> laos, north vietnam
1972 - 1973 -> north vietnam
1973 -> middle east
1975 -> cambodia, south vietnam
1977 - 1999 -> central and south america
1980 -> iran
1981 -> libya
1981 – 1992 -> nicaragua
1983 -> grenada
1982 – 1987 -> lebanon
1986 -> libya, bolivia
1987 – 1990 -> persian gulf
1988 -> persian gulf, honduras
1989 - 1990 -> panama
1990 -> hawaii
1990 – 1991 -> liberia
1990 – 1993 -> bolivia
1991 -> iraq, somalia, bangladesh, philippines, haiti, zaire, central and south america, saudi arabia
1991 - 1992 -> southwest asia
1991-1994 -> south america, kurdistan
1991 – 1996 -> kurdistan
1992 -> southwest asia, sierra leone, the adriatic, bosnia-herzegovina
1992 – 1993 -> the adriatic
1992 – 1996 -> bosnia
1993 – 1995 -> the adriatic
1994 -> rwanda, kuwait, serbia and macedonia
1994 – 1995 -> haiti, south america
1995 -> somalia, kuwait, albania, peru, ecuador, serbia, bosnia, croatia
1995 – 1996 -> the adriatic, bosnia-herzegovina
1996 -> liberia, central african republic, zaire, rwanda, uganda, iraq, guam, south africa, hungary, kurdistan, saudi arabia, bosnia-herzegovina
1997 -> congo, sierra leone, cambodia, iraq
1998 -> kenya, guinea-bissau, sudan, afghanistan, iraq, bosnia-herzegovina, kosovo, albania, bosnia
1998-1999 -> kosovo

soviet/russia:
korea, vietnam, afghanistan, chechenia

if you find more soviet/russian conflicts/wars from 1950 till 1999, then feel free to post. i couldn't find more.

do you see the difference in the quantity? this isn't the whole world but nearly the half of it.
it doesn't matter which side you are but what you try to achive. just because he is citizen of the usa should he tolerate everything the goverment does? think about it.