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Manga evidence only. Do not go overboard with the speculations and assumptions. Be as coherent as possible so everyone can understand exactly why you feel the way you do. Also, refrain from posts like "Byakuya/Mayuri is smart so he'll figure out a way to win." That doesn't mean anything.
Personally, I see Mayuri winning. Before anyone mentions it, I do not believe Byakuya is faster because simply nothing in the manga has suggested he is faster than captain-level. Furthermore, there have been occasions where Mayuri's shunpo seems to be a bit impressive. He caught Ishida off-guard a bit and he surprised Szayel when he used shunpo. Nevertheless, since there is no proof that either of them have shunpo above captain-level, we HAVE TO assume their shunpo is around the same level.
Anyway, Mayuri wins solely because of his poison and his weird body. The fact that he can fight on with fake organs is impressive. Furthermore, I think Byakuya would have to do massive damage in order to take Mayuri down and it's hard to do that when there is a cloud of poisonous gas spreading everywhere.
I believe Mayuri's body modifications allows him to take some damage without having to panic. Senbonzakura, if it catches him, may not be enough. I just think Mayuri + the bankai baby + the poison cloud is too much for Byakuya to deal with. He'd be on the defensive. Furthermore, Byakuya would have to stay very far away to avoid the poison cloud and if he's too far, the chances of getting a hit on Mayuri decreases as it should be pretty hard to see Mayuri through that purple cloud.
If Byakuya even takes one sniff, it's over because after that Mayuri can just chill or stab himself to turn into liquid and wait for Byakuya to die.
On the other hand, Nemu stated that Ishida might have killed Mayuri should he have hit him in the head instead of lower chest.
If Byakuya can catch bankai Ichigo with his bankai (even if Ichigo's hyperspeed allowed him to deflect all the petals), catching Mayuri wouldn't be too difficult. Also the petals could shred the babybankai within moments.
I'd say if they say the word bankai at the same time, they will kill each other. Mayuris poison kills Byakuya a little after Byakuyas bankai kills Mayuri. For this to work Byakuya would have to know to focus on his head instead of, say, torso.
Both are funky captains, and my middle name differs from Mayuri by just lacking the y ;D
Hypotheticly speaking Byakuya can win this battle if they both go Bankai at the same time. Byakuya with any luck knows about the Posion thing(or Mayuri will explain it) and thus Byakuya will know that time is working against him.
With the knowledge that Byakuya has a very strong one hit attack and that the Baby can be destroyed Byakuya should be able to cut the Bankai baby in two. And then move onto Mayuri.
7/10 times this goes to Mayuri because of cheap Bankai Baby.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that in this battle, both are serious: ie. neither Byakuya nor Mayuri waste their time on stupid "I'm better than you" speeches, like both of them are apparently prone to.
I'm going to disagree with you, ConanDect, about how Mayuri's speed matches Byakuya's. Byakuya is clearly one of the faster captains, able to match Zommari in speed. If Byakuya released at the same time as Mayuri, he would get Mayuri first. Heck, Byakuya doesn't even need to Bankai, he could catch Mayuri pretty easily with a shunpo or two.
However, just because Byakuya gets Mayuri with his shikai or bankai doesn't mean Mayuri is finished. Mayuri had a huge chunk of his body blown away by Uryuu, and he was still well enough to talk, and stand. He's pretty durable and would no doubt be able to withstand Byakuya's onslaught of Senbonzakura.
As shown from the Mayuri vs. Szayel fight, the poison is quick acting, affecting Szayel pretty soon after Mayuri Bankai'd. So, assuming Mayuri survives Byakuya's first Bankai attack (which I'm pretty sure he will), the poison will quickly get Byakuya afterwards. Since both are fighting seriously, Mayuri wouldn't explain the poison and Byakuya would be caught by surprise. In that short moment that he can't move and is caught off-guard, Mayuri would use either his Bankai or one of his experiments to finish Byakuya off.
I wouldn't say this would be the end of Byakuya, but the poison takes its toll, as shown by the Uryuu fight. Even if he avoided/countered the Bankai and got in another good hit, Byakuya wouldn't be able to stay standing any longer.
Byakuya clearly trumps Mayuri in ability, but Mayuri is durable, resourceful, and has a ton of tricks up his sleeve. Mayuri would outlast Byakuya in a fight of attrition...and that's why I voted him.
I'd have to agree with you on speed. I do believe that Byakuya is faster then Mayuri and if needed I will post feats.
Hell I'll Speed Calc to.
Anyways Conandect if you have such a problem with speed in any fight then why don't you just write Speed Equal at the beginning of a post?
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; November 02, 2008 at 11:56 AM.
I didn't know who to vote for on this one... It's true however, Byakuya's speed hasn't really been proven to be more superior than any other captain, I guess it's just been speculated like many have said. However as Aikidoka said, Byakuya proved superior than Zommari who is the fastest Espada so I guess it's safe to assume that Byakuya has somewhat of a superior speed than more captains.
The poison will definetely catch Byakuya off guard and I think that he will have a hell of a hard time fighting it off if he can. However, if the poison is as visible as it was when Mayuri fought Ishida I think Byakuya might be able to avoid it and attack from a distance like he always does.
In the end I voted for Byakuya.
So that talk about Byakuya proving superior to Zomari in speed is just a base-less speculation. Nothing even remotely implies that.
@Ono: Unless the feats you want to show are directly related to Mayuri or have someone saying "Byakuya is faster than the average captain" or something along the lines of that, then you cannot prove anything.
I do not have to post "Speed Equal" because the manga already suggests they have the same level of speed because they are both captains and nothing suggests otherwise.
i think you're making rules and statements with just your own speculation, which you said not to do.
you have no proof that the cicada technique is not a speed technique, and in fact, all eveidence we have regarding it indicates that that is exactly what it is. a speed technique.
we first saw it used by Yoruichi in the little SHUNPO show off race her and Byakuya had when she was escaping with Ichigo and he was chasing her.
the fact that is has been used by Yoruichi and Byakuya, two of the fastest people we know of, AND in both instances was used in the midst of speed showdowns, point to it being a speed technique.
and the reason Byakuya didn't want to use it was out of pride. he didn't wanna use it just because he learned it from Yoruichi.
which alllllll brings me to my next point.
Byakuya no faster than other captains?
he's been characterized as being all about his speed.
he's a big time shunpo user.
but i still can't say who would win. Mayuri is just to f***ed up and wierd with his science and inventions and body.
First grammar Nazi's should get off my back. If I make one mistake that in no way makes my statement incoherent then you shouldn't comment. I've seen far worse use of grammar in this Forum then one letter being wrong.Quote:
Next, your crazy if you think you're going to get a comparison for every single captain and a comparison for all the Bleach characters, a lot of the time feats simply speak for themselves so we don't need comparisons.
If we don't have a comparison then the only thing left is a feat. In the absence of comparisons(which isn't always very good) a feat is the best way to determine the strength. For instance Aizen has never been compared with anyone in Reaitsu, yet he Reaitsu crushed GJ really easily. Yet because we don't have a comparison does that make him equal in Reaitsu to Byakuya, Kenpachi, SHunsui, Mayuri, Ichigo etc.? Of course not. The same is true for Byakuya and Mayuri if we have a feat that puts Byakuya above Mayuri then we must logicly assume that Byakuya>Mayuri in speed.
Not only that but your going by the flawed logic that all Shunpo is created equal(which it's not).
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; November 02, 2008 at 05:43 PM.
I agree, we don't need to be spoon-fed the character comparison's for us to understand the gaps between certain characters. Byakuya has proven to be faster IMO seeing the things he has done. If he isn't faster, then he certainly uses Flash Step more prominently than any other character except for Ichigo using bankai when he is using the ability.
excluding the captains that we still don't know much about, Unohana, Ukitake, Shunsui, and Yama, i'd say the top dog speed lineage goes something like this...
Yoruichi > Soi Fon > Byakuya/Ichigo (not really sure who is faster at this point)
for the good guys anyways.
In this fight it will be a battle of brains vs brawn (in a way). however, byakuya has displayed many times superior intellect on the battle field.
Despite that if both were to go bankai, I do agree that mayuri will not die from the 1st form, at least not yet, while byakuya will most likely inhale the poison. However, if the poison is noticeable, byakuya could sense it and shunpo away and use his bankai from a distance. Here are two cases
1- Byakuya gets poisoned and is slowed down, however, he controls the bankai with his MIND meaning he doesn't need his body to follow it. If he keeps attacking with zenbonzakura, sooner or later mayuri will be screwed
2- Byakuya sense the poison and shunpo away, he attacks from a far with a barrage of both bankai and kido, obliterating mayuri's bankai and possibly beating him
As for speed, I still do not see how anyone could say byakuya is nothing but an average speed captain. He has shown numerous times that his speed is superior to most and even grew up training with youruichi. Youruichi is renowned for her superior speed so most likely the technique that both her and byakuya used, cicada, is a speed technique.
IMO I say Mayuri as we have seen through out the Series, Mayuri analyzes his opponent.
He had never seen Szayel, and still knew what he could do, due to adding something to Ishida.
I do however believe Byakuya is faster, true its not a proven fact but(Some of you will kill me for saying this) in the data books Byakuya was one of the faster Captains along with Soifon and Yamamoto, while Mayuri was the slowest along with Komamura.
Since Mayuri has had at least half a century to figure out Byakuya's techniques, that is personally why I chose him, but if it was brute strenght or a race Byakuya would win.
If Mayuri had at least half a century to analyze Byakuya's techniques, who's to say that Byakuya didn't have half a century to figure out Mayuri's techniques. In brute strength however, I do agree that Byakuya would agree.
i don't think that there is anything mayuri could do to counter byakuya;s bankai. Zenbonzakura attacks everywhere, and since we are assuming they are fighting with the intent to kill, then byakuya will aim for the head, mayuri's weakness