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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Am I the only one to think that GJ in released state is stronger than a Noitora in released state?????
I know that GJ is 6 and Noitora is 5,but for what I've seen,I don't see all this difference in power between the two.
Also,Noitora released state doesn't give him such a great improvement in power for what we have seen......what do u think?
I have always been a big fan of grimmjow and have actually given this a lot of thought. If we go by the numbers it is very clear that noitora is the stronger one. On the other handif we go by plot and what what was shown grimmjow appears to be the stronger one.
Given nooitora's flashback it is posible to climb up positions within the espada so it is posible that grimmjow was in need of a promotion lol. Personaly I think that grimmjow and noitora are at the same level but then again, the numbers....
Yeah that's it,like Luppi....I wouldn't say he is even at Yammi level,but he took position 6 just to have his ass kicked in one blow by GJ,,,
Well the gap in between each number is not given and perhaps is not a consistent factor. For example, we saw the gap between 6 and 4 to be somewhat significant as shown in Ulquiorra vs Grimmjow, but perhaps the gap between 2 and 3 or the gap between 7 and 8 isn't that big. There isn't a set benchmark between the numbers, only that the higher number should be stronger. The manga does not say HOW much stronger, simply stronger. Therefore, Grimmjow might be quite close to Nnoitora in strength.
Also note that Grimmjow is a speed demon in his released state while Nnoitora has not really shown many feats of speed.
Isn't GJ looking stronger kind of a given. I mean GJ got a lot longer to show off his stats.
Having said that my main belief for Nnoitra is that he's got a lot of swordsmanship ability and his Hierro is pretty strong but GJ has shown more power and speed.
My opinion on the matter: Experience gives Nnoitra the edge.
I have to say, from what we've seen, it's almost undeniable that Grimmjow is the better overall fighter. He's clearly faster and a better all around fighter. However, Noitora has the pure power that is greater than normal (non-kendo) kenpachi w/o his eyepatch, which is a very notable feat. He also is claimed to have the strongest hierro of the espada. So while perhaps Grimmjow might be quicker and be an overall better fighter, perhaps none of Grimmjow's attacks could pierce Noitora's hierro, or none of them could overpower the attacks of Noitora, making Noitora better than him one on one.
I personally like to think that Grimmjow is better, he's got great speed as well as still good power behind his attacks, he also varies his attacks up (ceros, gran rey ceros, desligarron as well as his unreleased form sword strikes and his hand to hand combat in his released form). However, he might lose to Noitora in a one on one simply by sheer power.
Noitora can keep regrowing his arms if they are chopped off. And from what we have seen grim's last technique is kido-ish. And we saw noitora take a cero times 2 at full blast and had no scratch
Grim is cooler but its obvious the noitora is stronger
Ah, remembering now that he can regrow his arms, I'm actually gonna have to agree with Raizen, in terms of the 4 parts of shinigami combat, here is how I see it:
Kidou (or like abilities, ie desligarron, cero, etc.): Grimmjow> Noitora
Footwork Techniques (speed using sonido): Grimmjow>Noitora
Hand-Hand Combat: Grimmjow>Noitora (Grimmjow has no weapons except for his abilities in his release, while Noitora has up to six scythes in it)
Zanjetsu (swordsmenship): Noitora>Grimmjow
However, Noitora doesn't need any extra speed if Grimmjow's attacks couldn't pierce his tough hierro anyways, he also doesn't need kidou or hand to hand since his zanjetsu is so great and that's where the bulk of his attacks come from.
So I'm gonna say that Noitora would win in a one on one fight, but Grimmjow is a much better rounded fighter.
I personally like Grimmjow more anyways.
Just look at how far Nnotoria pushed kenpachi.
Look at how well he did against Nel.
Look at how he just laughs at cero/kidou type attacks.
Look at his number.
Please, I think kenpachi could 1 shot grimmjaw with one arm and one eye patched up. He couldn't do that to nnotoria.
I'm not just going by numbers, Nnotoria
iswas a menace
Eddy said it best.
Grimm is a much faster, more skillful, and certainly a much smarter fighter.
but Noitora would still probably edge out the win due to his higher strength, reiatsu, hard-ass hierro that Grimm would have trouble getting through (maybe his elbow bullets and descardon might be able to wound Noitora, but i doubt his regular claws and kicks would, and his ruthless no-rules no-honor fighting style, Noi would probably win.
but then again, Grimm, as mentioned, is very "street smart" and might be able to pull off a win with some trickery or intelligent tactics.
The strongest of the two is obviously Noitora. Why?? Cuz Aizen said so. Aizen made everything much simpler in Hueco Mundo. He was smart enough to have a ranking system. So, when comparing Espada strengths, the ranking say's it all (only 1-10). If that isn't enough to convince you, just look back at Grimmjow's provocation towards Ulquiorra. It would be obvious that Ulquiorra would have tore his ass apart, considering the show he put on for Ichigo. So why did Grimmjow think he still had a chance? Cuz he didn't trust Aizen's word!!!
Last edited by mestizo311; March 13, 2009 at 07:56 AM.
Mhh I don't know if the number should make it that obvious (especially you should always consider the abilities). Just imagine that Noitora was the replacement for the deceased fifth espada like Luppi was for Grimmjaw.
But I have to agree with Eddie and co..
I thought Noitora was made #5 after Aizen had used the Hougyokou(?) on him, thus making him more powerful than the time we saw him with Nel. As for the whole Luppi replacement, I can't really argue with that. Mostly because I hated Luppi as a character. I am a big Grimmjow fan and the fact that some metrosexual arrancar took his spot, still pisses me off. In terms of being the most well rounded fighter, I would have to say it goes to Grimmjow. However, that doesn't mean shit when your opponent has 6 arms and can block just about every attack you throw at him. Then while he's blocking your attack, he'll carve your ass up like a turkey with his schyth's. Noitora looks like a one dimensional fighter but that alone will be enough for any Espada 6-10.
when Noitora was shown with Nel, the hougyoku had already been used on him.
he wasn't a natural arrancar, he became an arrancar through Aizen's use of the hougyoku.
he probably rose through the ranks due to continued fighting and experience, increasing his power over time. or maybe they train? or continue to eat other hollows? i dunno.
as for Grimmjow's confidence regarding a fight with Ulquiorra, i'd say it's probably more just him mind-gaming than anything. Ulquiorra's all about absolutes, straight forward stats and observations.
Grimmjow's ferocity, confident, unorthodox, and "street smart" demeanor and fighting style probably throw Ulquiorra off. he thinks he knows what to expect but then he ends up being surprised.
he's obviously much higher in power, but Grimm still managed to get the best of him in their little quarrel with unpredictable, smart fighting and a smart surprise usage of the little cube thing.
a real fight between the two would probably be similar. Grimmjow doing unexpectedly well due to his relentless ferocity, unpredictable, unorthodox ways, and his "street smarts". (some might say he sometimes fights dirty and/or uses trickery). in the end, Ulq would probably completely overwhelm and crush him, but i personally think Grimm could do pretty well and manage to hurt Ulq at least a little bit.
I think grimmow could fight on even ground in a fight against ulquiorra while they dont release their swords, once both of them release, grimmjow gets owned.
As for the thread, I would like to say grimmjow wins but given the ranks shown, I doubt he will pull it off. Although, I dont think there was that much diference between them, I would say both of them would be pushed to their limits. Also in their released forms, grimmjow has greater range than nnoitora, he can shot the elbow missiles, and has desgarron, which according to grimmjow is even greater than his gran rey cero.