Are the aliens really invaders?

**ryakugo** · January 19, 2009 11:53 AM

In the nuri mission, most of the aliens seen are monsters form japanese folk lore. also other aliens such as the buddahs and the oni have also been dipicted for hundreds of years in japan. (buddism being a religion so thousands of years)
So i belive that the aliens have been on earth for thousands of years and that they belive they have the right to be here first, but on thier discovery by humans they are being driven off the panet by whoever gantz was made by. and therefore have begun to retaliate becuse of the gantzers actions against them. there last resort possibly being katastrophe?

**Amigo!** · January 20, 2009 04:29 AM

well the aliens dont really seem to be on earth as invaders, but they also don't seem to be from earth either. so i would say that gantz probably kills them because, one the aliens are dangerous, and two they are strong opponents for his gantzers.

**Amnesiac** · January 20, 2009 02:26 PM

Somehow people recently got into their heads that the gantz players are the good guys and the aliens are evil.

The players have always been the ones starting the fights (including the war with the vampire aliens). The aliens that attacked without provocation did so because they knew the players were there to kill them.

The tokyo team may have saved many innocent people, but those people were in danger because of the team's action in the first place! So by the usual good/evil morals and standards, the tokyo team are some evil bastards and if god existed he would hate their guts.

But one of the point of gantz is to show that morals are relative. The morals we see as innate and absolute in many contexts become meaningless and useless.

**cassaruby** · January 20, 2009 04:35 PM

germany ww2; potentially good people (sometimes) unknownly push evil button, innocents are dead. gantz gives the orders, gantzers push the button. it's their job. what else are they gonna do? Gantz does give them the option and freedom to move around, but eventually you die or push the button.

though i don't like this comparison because whenever you go into the evilist thing ever hitler always comes up, but he's so easy to pick on when talking about evil.

100% opposite side of the story, Jesus wouldn't do it... sounds so cliche when I write it, but whatcha really gonna do? I guess it's easy when the aliens are scary on the outside.

But we don't really know much about gantz, good or bad. Though being manufactured on Earth is suspicious.

**kaliayev** · January 20, 2009 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Amnesiac

including the war with the vampire aliens

We can't really know that for sure. Let's say the hunters really did start this particular war. For this to be the case, without there being a direct attack on the vampires, the vampires must have condescended to the position of protectors of weaker factions (a sort of hegemony if you will). For the war to have been started by the hunters in such a way, the vampires must have had a defensive pact with these weaker factions out of respect for the basic similarities between themselves and the latter or for the sake of certain privileges they could exercise over the weaker factions. However, given their past interaction with the oni faction and their "late" arrival to the dinosaur massacre, I find this highly unlikely.

While they are certainly able to weave in and out of the active machinations and territories of other factions, I imagine this is true with any of the factions that have decided to interact with one another for the sake of mutual benefit. Even if they were an acting guarantor for their sub-group, the hunters would have no way of knowing the complex relationships and treaties between these covert factions. If the hunters are forced into a situation that requires them to kill one of the weaker factions, given their inability to access the information regarding alliances, they couldn't possibly be held accountable. The retaliation that the vampires would seek would be unjustified since they didn't make their alliances public knowledge (ironically, the vampires were forced into a similar situation with the yokai and had more knowledge of the alliances between factions, though I'm sure they don't feel remorse for their actions nor would any vengeance visited upon them by allies of the yokai be justified, as the vampires were forced to kill various members of the yokai faction).

But I digress. Their main reason for attacking the humans would likely be a preemptive strike against future opponents. However, if they were not prompted through direct attack upon themselves, then they made the conscious decision to begin a war with the hunters.

Originally Posted by Amnesiac

The morals we see as innate and absolute in many contexts become meaningless and useless.

...Only Kantians view morals as "innate and absolute."

**Amigo!** · January 23, 2009 02:18 AM

I don't think gantz is good or bad but he is definitely an asshole which means that the aliens and humans are being forced to fight for some greater purpose idk what the hell that could be.

**Amnesiac** · January 25, 2009 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by kaliayev

...Only Kantians view morals as "innate and absolute."

Not necessarily. Most people see morals as being objective and if not absolute, at least not much "bendable".

**kaliayev** · January 25, 2009 01:08 PM

Yes, very few people advance far beyond the beliefs they were raised with. Even when cognitive dissonance or moral schizophrenia is obvious, many people fail to reflect on or alter their beliefs/behavior. However, for one to view one's own morals as innate and absolute is generally rare, as the majority of individuals still suffer from some degree of inner conflict and shame.

p.s. I don't know if you've read this or not, but I think you'd like Discipline and Punish by Foucault.

**himynameiskarl** · January 25, 2009 01:16 PM

well what does everyone think bout the idea that the aliens have been there for so many years, seems like the thread has gone off on a tangent haha.

**kaliayev** · January 25, 2009 01:56 PM

Heh, sorry about that.

If we approach things from the gantz side, there's a heavy amount of moral ambiguity. The options available to them are less than desirable. If they want a chance to survive, they have to follow the rules. At the same time, there have been hunters who have relished in mutilating and killing aliens. If we approach things from the "assimilation" of the aliens into our culture, we're left with similar problem. It's certainly true that they wanted nothing to do with humans and ultimately feared going public due to intolerance. However, none of them tried to approach humanity so as to bridge the gap. Instead, they demanded universal satisfaction when isolated groups attacked them. They kept to themselves and were hunted by individuals, who were forced into the task and knew nothing about the aliens. Perhaps, the aliens, had they revealed themselves to the public, could have had more supporters within the teams (Katou was the only one who identified with them). At the very least, the utter hatred of something different and new shown by some of the hunters might have been lessened with an awareness of the aliens. Then, we have Nura and gantz, who suggested an immense force would inevitably attack humanity. If this ultimate katastrophe was independent of the hunts, then the hunters have the higher ground (not by much). At this point, it doesn't matter because the two sides will not be reconciled (Host-Samurai's desire for self-preservation is an isolated incident).

**Amnesiac** · January 25, 2009 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by kaliayev

p.s. I don't know if you've read this or not, but I think you'd like Discipline and Punish by Foucault.

Checked it's wikipedia entry and seems interesting, thanks for the tip.

**Revilenigma** · January 29, 2009 02:15 PM

intresting theory, most of the aliens seem to me to be like illegal immigrants who are trying to mind theyre own business(onion, tanaka, buddha, chibi, dinos, oni) only the ring aliens and the folk lore aliens were the only ones to ever attack innocents first.

**Amigo!** · January 30, 2009 01:56 AM

didnt the oni alien mention something about the invasion, and also katastrophe has been in the works for sometime izumi references it when him and nishi are on the train.

**Revilenigma** · January 30, 2009 10:49 AM

i remember the train scene with nishi and izumi talking about katastrophe, but we still dont know what katastrophe is, it could just be joke for all we know. and i think the oni aliens were just talking about killing the gantzers and not all the humans but i could be wrong.

**GAT-X252** · January 30, 2009 11:18 AM

IMO the Oni was talking about sending all his "people" to attack the hunters...that is why there were a lot of targets in that mission. I don't think he was talking about other Alien factions...there could be a lot of them but it seems that they aren't really connected.