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Thread: The boundaries of good and evil

  1. #16
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    Okay, but then is Itachi evil!?

    He killed an entire clan because he though that was the best thing to do for the peace.

    ... I'm not against you guys, I'm just saying that "criminal" and "evil" is not the same thing. Being evil is having a "black heart" and thinking only of himself, wanting to rule the world with chaos and things like that.

    IMO, Pain isn't that evil. His quest for peace is the proof that he doesn't have a "black heart".

    Danzou is more evil than Pain, because he wants Konoha to be the strongest and that's a quest for power.
    kishi did a weird thing by pulling our heart strings in his story, but yes, itachi was evil, and though he may have been good inside, he sacrificed that to protect his brother and chose evil ways. He killed his entire family and some. He took part in killing innocent hosts. Being evil doesn't necessarily mean just having a "black heart" but could be better said as having a "misguided heart". Using the wrong means to achieve goals. Some people are more flamboyantly evil (oro) while others a more subdued (pein). Pein isn't immune to being evil because he wants peace...I mean, he wants people to suffer to achieve it...how is that not evil?

  2. #17
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner cgpr4life2's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    Okay, but then is Itachi evil!?

    He killed an entire clan because he though that was the best thing to do for the peace.

    ... I'm not against you guys, I'm just saying that "criminal" and "evil" is not the same thing. Being evil is having a "black heart" and thinking only of himself, wanting to rule the world with chaos and things like that.

    IMO, Pain isn't that evil. His quest for peace is the proof that he doesn't have a "black heart".

    Danzou is more evil than Pain, because he wants Konoha to be the strongest and that's a quest for power.
    I agree with you pain is not evil he just seeks peace in a very messed up way. A good graphic novel that goes deeply into this topic is "watchmen" i highly recommend it. though the movie is coming out soon anyway thats completely off topic.

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  4. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Remy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    Okay, but then is Itachi evil!?

    He killed an entire clan because he though that was the best thing to do for the peace.

    ... I'm not against you guys, I'm just saying that "criminal" and "evil" is not the same thing. Being evil is having a "black heart" and thinking only of himself, wanting to rule the world with chaos and things like that.

    IMO, Pain isn't that evil. His quest for peace is the proof that he doesn't have a "black heart".

    Danzou is more evil than Pain, because he wants Konoha to be the strongest and that's a quest for power.

    Itachi wanted everyone to belive he killed them all... but we know madara was manipulating everything...

    Did he really killed them^ I have serious doubt about this. He could<ve may prevent it from happening but I seriously doubt he did anything to his parents on that night.

  5. #19
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vejita_sempai View Post
    i'm in agreement with Bean ...in the real life like in this manga "Evil is not only about intent, but about actions as well."
    But then, do you consider that Itachi is evil!?
    He did wipe out all his clans (including old lady, kids and babies)...


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  7. #20
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    kishi did a weird thing by pulling our heart strings in his story, but yes, itachi was evil, and though he may have been good inside, he sacrificed that to protect his brother and chose evil ways. He killed his entire family and some. He took part in killing innocent hosts. Being evil doesn't necessarily mean just having a "black heart" but could be better said as having a "misguided heart". Using the wrong means to achieve goals. Some people are more flamboyantly evil (oro) while others a more subdued (pein). Pein isn't immune to being evil because he wants peace...I mean, he wants people to suffer to achieve it...how is that not evil?
    the question is if itachi is evil or if its the elders of konoha who ordered him to kill his family.

  8. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Remy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.A View Post
    It's valid that Pain's point of reasoning is not evil, while to many his actions or means are evil. Murder is often seen as an evil act. Rather I think Pain is more delusional to say the least than actually to be labelled, "evil".
    Now your playing with the words.... he just killed many many innocents people. If this is not eveil what is?


    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    But then, do you consider that Itachi is evil!?
    He did wipe out all his clans (including old lady, kids and babies)...
    Yes if he did it hes evil.. why not? because hes good looking and he save one person while killing many others?

    If he really did what madara said then this guy is not just evil, hes stupid as hell also.
    Last edited by Remy; February 12, 2009 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cgpr4life2 View Post
    I agree with you pain is not evil he just seeks peace in a very messed up way. A good graphic novel that goes deeply into this topic is "watchmen" i highly recommend it. though the movie is coming out soon anyway thats completely off topic.
    the funny thing about that comic was that the "good heroes" considered that guy to be evil, and kinda stepped into the dark side themselves by not stopping his evil plan and killing the only one with the right morals. Evil prevailed in that story, even though it brought on some good (I guess if you can call it that).


    Quote Originally Posted by cgpr4life2 View Post
    the question is if itachi is evil or if its the elders of konoha who ordered him to kill his family.
    he is. Like I said, he sacrificed his good nature to become evil to "save" konoha in a shitty fucked up misguided way. The good in that situation (sarutobi) was pushed aside. And even then, he regretted it and knew that he allowed the wrong thing to be done...
    Last edited by bean; February 12, 2009 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  11. #23
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    the funny thing about that comic was that the "good heroes" considered that guy to be evil, and kinda stepped into the dark side themselves by not stopping his evil plan and killing the only one with the right morals. Evil prevailed in that story, even though it brought on some good (I guess if you can call it that).
    yep... and do someone deeply eveil can do few little good things during his lifes? Of course.

    But don't tell me killing innocent people is not eveil because it depends if he is on naruto side... I don't buy it

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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Instead of the manga drawing a line between Good and Evil, essentially I think Kishi draws the line between villains and protagonists. That way Kishi can make out Itachi to be a villain rather than an evil person. While yes Itachi did kill the Uchiha clan off, he was following strict ninja orders, now is following orders which is your duty an evil act? Are those soldiers who engage in war evil because they follow "evil" orders?

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  14. #25
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member vejita_sempai's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    But then, do you consider that Itachi is evil!?
    He did wipe out all his clans (including old lady, kids and babies)...


    omg i love itachi ..... but yes imo ...he was evil like pain is !!!!

    and itachi knew that is act as evil !!!! infact he waiting for sasuke revenge....


  15. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Remy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.A View Post
    Instead of the manga drawing a line between Good and Evil, essentially I think Kishi draws the line between villains and protagonists. That way Kishi can make out Itachi to be a villain rather than an evil person. While yes Itachi did kill the Uchiha clan off, he following strict ninja orders, now is following orders which is your duty an evil act? Are those soldiers who engage in war evil because they follow "evil" orders?
    Nice point of vue. Make sense to me.

    About your soldier orders... if I am working for an army and they told me to kill innocent people for dick... and I do it just because they ordered me to.. Yes im evil... and stupid

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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.A View Post
    Instead of the manga drawing a line between Good and Evil, essentially I think Kishi draws the line between villains and protagonists. That way Kishi can make out Itachi to be a villain rather than an evil person. While yes Itachi did kill the Uchiha clan off, he was following strict ninja orders, now is following orders which is your duty an evil act? Are those soldiers who engage in war evil because they follow "evil" orders?
    now we're getting into some deep shit...but yeah, itachi had the choice to disobey those orders or to go through with them. He didn't have to turn to evil ways to maintain his image or protection over his brother...

  17. #28
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisar View Post
    if itachi was evil or good does not belong to the coming chapter.
    I agree.
    I'm sorry I started that discussion

    That's pretty interesting and I wish that was not deleted by the mods.
    Is there a way to transfer all that discussion into a new thread?
    A thread like : "Who is good and who is evil!?"

    I'd like to continue that discussion in that thread


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    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
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  18. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Remy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomeMade Nindo View Post
    I agree.
    I'm sorry I started that discussion

    That's pretty interesting and I wish that was not deleted by the mods.
    Is there a way to transfer all that discussion into a new thread?
    A thread like : "Who is good and who is evil!?"

    I'd like to continue that discussion in that thread
    Yeah me too... that was a discussion where arguments were coming easily I guess...

    So next chapter I call that madara is Obito or Danzo *kidding*

  19. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner cgpr4life2's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 435 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    the funny thing about that comic was that the "good heroes" considered that guy to be evil, and kinda stepped into the dark side themselves by not stopping his evil plan and killing the only one with the right morals. Evil prevailed in that story, even though it brought on some good (I guess if you can call it that).
    <hr noshade size="1">
    The messed up part is that it all got undone at the very end so no good actually came out of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    he is. Like I said, he sacrificed his good nature to become evil to "save" konoha in a shitty fucked up misguided way. The good in that situation (sarutobi) was pushed aside. And even then, he regretted it and knew that he allowed the wrong thing to be done...
    yes but would letting the uchiha clan rage war against konoha been the "good" thing to do? I think the problem is that we r thinking of good as right and evil as wrong. Itachi killing his entire family may have been an evil thing but it was indeed the right thing to do.

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