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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Well this is a very interesting theory, however I find a few things wrong with it.
1. The age of Tsuande related to the age of Minato. Tsuande atm is 53 years old. Minato would be the same age as the other rookie nine parents which is in the early 40's I believe. Tsuande would of had to give birth to Minato between the ages of 10-13 which seems very unlikely.
2. The Blue eyes. This is a recessive gene, which neither Tsuande and I think Dan did not have. It would be impossible for them to pass on the blue eyed gene to Minato I think.
3. Tsuande leaving the Leaf village. J-man left to go after Orochimaru, he left his God Son behind for the sake of his friend which is bad enough. I highly doubt Tsuande would leave her blood related Grandson for the reasons she did.
4. Tsuande hasn't shown any feelings like a grandmother really should to Naruto. Yes she loves him and is protective, but not like a Grandmother normally would. Also, if Minato had senju blood in him, don't you think it would of been mentioned by now?
Just because Sakura looks a lot like Tsunade you wouldn't say they're related... They look similar, because of the symbolism. The same reason why Naruto looks similar to Nawaki. He was supposed to remind Tsunade of her younger brother.
This manga wouldn't go anywhere if he wasn't able to withstand it. Killerbee is able to hold off the power of the eight tails easily without needing to be Hashirama's bastard son.
If you're talking about his skills: "He's a prodigy in senjutsu. His grandfather must have been a frog."
The first Hokage was the one who destroyed the seperation of individual Clans, by founding Konoha, and establishing a bond between the world's two most antagonized families. Even gave away the Bijuu to other nations. Overcoming the boundaries of the past.
He is all about integration.
The Uchiha are all about sepeation. They were the one's who mistrusted the Senju, when the truce was established. They were the ones who expelled their own leader. They were the ones who planned a coup d'etat. Madara, Itachi and Sasuke all favoured seperation over integration.
Naruto is always choosing integration. He understood and accepted Gaara. He promised Neji to unite the Hyuuga. He never gave up on Sasuke. He is all about forming bonds. A true spiritual successor of the first Hokage.
It doesn't matter where you come from, what family you were born from, what you were in the past and what you try to achieve in the future. The Ideals of the first Hokage transcend those boundaries.
That's exactly why Naruto is not a Senju! Because if it were that way, Kishi would degrade the Senju... and make them just as limited and seperated as the Uchiha.
First of all, the part about how Tsunade lost so many people is waaaay earlier. They discuss Minato because Jiraiya talked about Naruto. They talked about Naruto, because Tsunade said Kakashi or Naruto could replace her. And they talked about that because Jiraiya didn't want her to leave the village. etc. etc.
Secondly. Why would Tsunade call Minato by his full name? Would you use family-names when talking about your very own children? Of course not.
Also, why would Jiraiya say that Minato was waaaay more talented than Naruto? "Yeah, we lost quite a guy. Too bad your wuss of a grandson can't even compare to his father..."
Tsunade actions wouldn't make a single bit of sense.
There's absolutely no reason for her to abandon Minato all the time.
Why didn't Orochimaru tried to seduce her with "I'll revive those three you lost..."? Why didn't Shizune add Minato to the list, when she told Naruto about her uncle's and Nawaki's deaths? Why did Jiraiya just say "She's the granddaughter of the First" instead of "Granddaughter of the First AND mother of the Fourth"?
It's as if her having a son would be a big big secret, when there is absolutely no reason for it to be.
Last edited by nahkampfbiber; February 28, 2009 at 06:19 PM.
Which Naruto answered that he will become hokage no matter what.
Right now we know that he is indeed destined to become hokage because of his father. So Neji wwas right after all and it doesn't matter that Naruto doesn't know about his father. He's just fullfilling his destiny unknowledgeable.
Neji even said something that you can not change your destined path. So the only possiblity that Neji is wrong is that Naruto doesn't become hokage and not because he doesn't have the ability but because he declines (maybe because he realised that he doesn't need the name hokage to protect anyone and to be respected by anyone, moreover he would have theoreitcally achieved his dream (and I guess he doesn't like the paperwork xD)).
But as the things are Neji's statement is still valid.
Very nice theory, respect on that. I always felt Tsunade was related to Naruto every since I saw her little brother. Plus now that you mention it Dan does have a resemblance to Minato.
Plus when you think about Madara commenting that only a Senju could match a Uchiha and vice versa, it make's perfect sense.
Ehhh Tsunade is not Minatos mother....first the age doesnt match... or at least Tsunade was 15-16years old to give birth..... but that time she didnt met Dan......... in manga when Ji-man and NAruto met Tsunade in the bar Tsunade said that Ji-man's apprentice is uglier then the previous one (minato) would a mother call her own child ugly...... later before Ji-man went ot rain village.... they were talking about narutos parents... and there was no slight mother feeling from her to minato....
So NO Tsunade is not Minatos mother.... becouse Tsunade has some kind of blond hair doesnt mean she is Minatos mother !!! (well in time when Minato died he was around 25-27years old if I remember while tsunade was mostly around her 40's [in naruto-jirya travel he said that now Tsuande is in her 50's and while naruto was 13y old it kinda matches] so if Tsunade wa minatos motehr than she was around 13-16years old...... so no topic failed....
some stuff of your theory actually made me start to think about it for real, but no I doubt this, nahkampfbiber also countered a couple of them very nicely.
but oh well, I gotta say that I'd seriously find it fun but not likely.
first off, we don't know minato's age. if anything, she could have been 18 and had sex with dan almost immediately after they met. probably after she kissed him on the balcony. after all, they were in the middle of war and that's when people start having babies because they think their time's up.Quote:
she would if she was ashamed of her pregnancy and the fact that she had to give away her own son. she was probably trying to deny his existence or the fact that she really loves him.Quote:
read the entire topic. it does make sense.Quote:
and also, it's J-man not Ji-man. and before you start critizing me, i'm not saying that it's 100% possible, but it is pretty plausible.
well, while i agree that character designs are being repeating, this was before there was any need for it (back when each character was clearly recognizable). and if it was just the hair, then sure, nawaki could have been relating to naruto like kaien is to ichigo, but it's not just that. it's the entire personality. at the end of part 1, we got a pic of minato smiling. his smile is exactly like naruto's, indicating a relationship, as is nawaki's. and for the record, sakura and tsunade look nothing alike.Quote:
again, it could be irony, as discussed in the topic. he unknowingly knows that he's calling his own grandma "granny". and i would be inpolite to people too, if everybody was looking down on me. also, hiruzen and them could be senju, if a senju girl married a sarutobi man.Quote:
she would have orphaned him, therefore not having a chance to give it to him. and even if she did want to give it to him, the last two people she gave it to had died, so why would she give it to her own son if she thought that it was going to kill him.Quote:
or he's got that crazy chakra because he's related to the senju, the strongest clan in history, apart from the uchiha. and for that matter, killer bee is related to his kage, so there might be a trend that all jinchuriki, or incredibly gifted person being related to the kage of that same village, as seen with gaara as well. and with the frog thing, well, your just being an ass with that (no offense).Quote:
i don't know what you're trying to get at with this one. it clearly stands to seem that ur saying that naruto has exactly the same qualities as the first hokage, which just deepens the fact that naruto is related to the senju, as is every other hokage.Quote:
again, tsunade is trying to deny minato's existence (which is kinda hard seeing as how he's so famous), and maybe you should just re-read the entire conversation under the assumption that minato is her son, it would make a lot of sense.Quote:
tsunade's actions all make sense if you consider the fact that she had minato at a young age and orphaned him out of fear and ashamement (if that's a real word). and she probably didn't tell orochimaru and tsunade based solely on that fact. and jiraiya probably only learned about it accidently and promised tsunade not to tell anyone.Quote:
it was probably because, given her famous heritage as being in the hokage's family, having such a premature pregnancy would have been a bad thing, because everyone would of thought of her as a slut or something and looked down upon her family's lineage.Quote:
the whole point is, she was ashamed to have minato and therefore gave him up and tried to deny his existence.
Last edited by slmcknett; March 02, 2009 at 01:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
On the other hand, Konohamaru didn't have a family name in either of the three databooks, while we knew from chapter 2 that he was Sarutobi's great-son. We finally got the confirmation his family name was Sarutobi on chapter 428, after 9 years of useless waiting. Tsunade's case could be the same.Quote:
On the other hand, if we compare Tsunade, Dan and Kabuto (another would be discarded son of the couple):Quote:
1-Kabuto have a mix of Dan and Tsunade's blood type(AB).
2-Dan and Kabuto graduated the Academy at the Same
timeage(When they were 10) *not literally the SAME year
3-Dan and Kabuto Share the Same Hair Color(white). Plus he has Tsunade's hair cut and bang, but only one piggy tail instead of two.
4-Although Kabuto is not as close as Minato on the height and weight, he's closer to Dan than Itachi to
So Minato does better with height and weight, but Kabuto does better with hair, so I would say these points are irrelevant.
This is a Kaien and Ichigo case, they had to look alike so Naruto could remind Nawaki to Tsunade. So this point shouldn't taken into account.Quote:
That would be very ironic indeed, but irony alone is not a point.Quote:
She didn't past it down to Naruto, she lost it against a long long long shot gamble. There was no way Naruto could win, that's why she bet it. No point here either.Quote:
It could also be explained away by her being sad for not having the courage / not to be allowed to tell Naruto the truth (and they better be ashamed of themselves for that )Quote:
Its not weird, Tsunade said Naruto could become hokage, Jiraiya said "no yet", Tsunade said Jiraiya do believe in Naruto, he even taught Naruto the razengan and Jiraiya said it was just for the old times sake, because Naruto remind him of Minato. It makes sense in the conversation.Quote:
It could have been someone just implying "We should have been a couple for years now, let's finally get together", well the whole conversation reek of "let's finally get together".Quote:
You are reading what you want to read in this dialogue, it make perfect sense without Minato being Tsunade's son. On the case of Tsunade and Dan being Minato's parents, the evidence are no stronger than those for Kabuto.
Although, the parts on the Senju make more sense.
Quote:Quote:Although, just like Sasuke isn't likely to be Madara's great-great-son (did Madara even have a girl?), Naruto doesn't have to be Shodai's great-great-son to match his rival as a Senju. He could be.. say... Nidaime's great-great-son, explaining where the spicky ball hair come from and getting poor Nidaime back in the story. And Sasuke could be the descendant of Madara's brother's child (let's assume he has one), which would help Izuna to get back in the story as well.Quote:
Last edited by Gingitsune; March 06, 2009 at 09:39 AM.
B = brown
b = blue
Bb = genes
| B | b
B BB| Bb
b Bb | bb
Getting BB genes is 25%, meaning blue eyes won't be passed on. Bb is 50% chance though, blue eyes will be passed on. bb is 25% chance, meaning the kid will have blue eyes.
I still think there's no way Minato can be related to Tsunade. The way she talks or talked about him, he can't be her son. When we first met her, she was pretty cold towards Minato. It seems more like Saindaime is related to Minato than Tsunade.
Also, not only did she speak harshly to Minato but she also spoke harshly towards the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. She also said that being hokage was "shit" and that only a fool would do it, which applies to Dan and Nawaki. She was cold to everyone she spoke of.
Was talking about that. I have an annoying tendency to correct anything I see. <_<Quote:
Yep, but I was also talking about before Jiraiya left to recon Pain. She didn't speak of him as a proud son as Jiraiya did, but as a proud citizen to know Minato or be associated with him. That's what I interpreted the tone as anyway. And she didn't think much about Minato when she was thinking about her lost loved ones, if he was her son (and from the looks of it, she was proud of him or at least liked him), then she'd at least think about him a little, no?
this really sounds nice, but tsunade does not show responses like a grandma would do. from the beginning:
reffering to Naruto with "this kid" and calling him "nine tailed" disagrees with this theory.
Wouldnt it be strange if her son is not the one she love the most. there were only two the forst is dan and the other is her brother, as it was said in the manga.
This theory has too much interpretations and the contra-facts were left aside. But it is good for funfictions^^.
anyway great post, i liked reading it
Mm..Originally Posted by Saintkoe from onemanga
For those questioning her actions toward her supposed grandson, well it is tough love