D.Gray-man Volume 19 (Ch. 182-188) Discussion

[anna vetra]

I'm sorry but Allen's Innocence was never destroyed since he is using it right now. Which is one of the reasons why I think Allen at least has the heart because his Innocence doesn't seem capable of destruction. Although you're theory is interesting about Kanda having the heart, although I don't have much to add because most of it is just speculation and I can't refute or add to it.

I wasnt refering to now. i was refering to back when they were hving a battle in China. When Allen was tryin to rescue The Fallen One, he met Tyki. it was thot that his innocence was destroy bt only after that we were told that his innocence turned to mist instead. ok maybe you were right abt "his Innocence doesn't seem capable of destruction." which might be becos it was The Heart

[addenza]

The heart might be in Central's hands, because the Earl said that if the Order finds out about the meaning of Akuma evolution, the Heart would know as well. Hell, this Alma Karma guy might actually have it.

Hmm, but I think that the Heart is probably staying hidden, either in the shadows and not participating in the war between the Earl and the Order or keeping his/her identity while working in the Order, cause the Earl said that the Heart had "definitely awakened", and that was the reason he decided to let the Egg be destroyed by the Order.

@anna vetra: I'm too lazy to quote your post but if the fourteenth betrayed the Earl because of the Heart and he wanted to kill the Earl, wouldn't it make more sense for the host of the fourteenth to possess the Heart? After all, Cross said that the fourteenth was determined to finish off the Earl with his own hands. It would give the fourteenth a great advantage to possess both the power of the Noah as well as that of the most important innocence. Oh yeah, and like you said, Allen's innocence wasn't truly destroyed, it lingered around in the form of a mist after Tyki crushed it, and that increases the possibility of Allen possessing the Heart.

[anna vetra]

@addenza : hrm... what if The 14th betray The Earl not because of The Heart but because The Earl want to destroy mankind? The 14th, as a Noah, can't wield The Heart thus he gave it away, hide it from The Earl.

Or that after he defeated the other Noahs, he himself also suffer from serious injuries thus he knew that he hadn't a chance against The Earl even with The Heart (coz he's too weak to wield it) so he rather hide it away and then went into running and hiding from The Earl with Mana. when he knew that he couldn't outrun anymore, he transfered his memories to Allen and then got killed by The Earl after that.

what do you think?

[ca12nag3]

It seems noahs can wield innocence since Allen is wielding 1. Also this does not say its the heart innocence. There are some reasons why its not nececarry for it to be the heartpiece.

1- The heartpiece is actualy the main piece or controllerpiece of the whole. It used to be 1 weapon that destroyed/delayed the earl for few thousand years. So the heart piece is connected with all the other pieces. Remember that if the heartpiece is destroyed the other ones are destroyed as well?
I think that if the heartpiece is close enough to a piece of innocence it can actualy save it or amplify its power. Like when it was 1 and destroyed the earl so all the pieces combined must be a huge power.

2 The 14th is a magician,musician and ofc hes noah. Who can tell what kind of powers he has. Cross can suspend the life or more say animate a dead corps Maria's and use her as a weapon. Who might have tought him this technique? The 14th might have so he could have been the one containing the innocence long enough for the host Allen to recover and reclaim it.

Another thing to concider is how hosts react on contact with dark matter and innocence. The Order agrees on it that symbiotic innocence is the most powerfull since its the entire body fused with the matter. So as a weapon your much stronger and the only downfall is that if innocence rejects you you become a fallen one. 2 Typs of symbiot the crystal typ and the natural typ. The noah are no different in that matter they are all Symbionts just the oposite typ. So how it can be that both are inside 1 human like with Allen still is a mystery.
You could say ofc that when Road got stabbed by his sword etc. But i believe its the same as with Timothy that once the innocence or noah-dark matter leaves its host for mission the host is no longer containing the essence ofc when it returns as with Road she could be hit first the dagger stabbed Allen-ilusion inside Lavis mind so she turned back to her body and bled then the fire hit her and she was hurt.
Same with Timothy when he enters an Akuma it becomes his puppet but when the Akuma is destroyed he bounced back into his body. The body was controled by the spirit of the innocence. Same with Road i guess.
Must be crowded inside Allen with 3 entities ^^ could play cards among eachother i guess :P
At first in the series it seemed like Akuma inncence and dark matter with noahs was no more then a toy/weapon. Now it seems sentient like Timothies even talks with him even tho only he can see. The noah images in the mirrors that they see talk back as well. And Lenalee talked with her innocence and it changed shape like it understood her. So i guess its all alive.
More or less Darwinian theory of evolution, if it evolves long enough it becomes sentient.
Would prolly conflict with the church/central cause they see the humans as the only thing that has a right to be. They only use the innocence for their fights.
Timothies innocence even has a name lol. Not unlike the noahs and their 2 names... The only ones without 2 names are the Earl and Road. Well unless Road keeps her hosts name secret.

[addenza]

@anna vetra: Oh yeah, it's more possible that way. Hmm, and it makes me wonder why the fourteenth didn't like the Earl destroying mankind in the first place. Don't the Noahs love destruction? XD Uh, I guess we'll need more information before we can speculate on that.

So you're saying that the fourteenth just happened to meet a boy with innocence embeded in his arm since he was young? Hmm, the fourteenth is a real lucky guy (and Allen is a sad boy). XDD Oops.

[ca12nag3]

assuming that it was said that 35years ago, the other noahs were killed and suffered memories damaged before The Earl killed The 14th (Mana's brother) around the same time and given that Allen is 15, there's a 20 years gap. could it be that Allen is the recarnation of The 14th instead of what we speculate that his memories were implanted coz they met. and before The 14th (Mana's brother) was killed, he told Cross to take care of Mana and that he will find his way back to Mana. so mayb by act of fate or some magical bond or some clues left behind by The 14th (Mana's brother), Mana found Allen and adopted him and eventually became Cross apprentice. in this case, my theory of Kanda having The Heart given by The 14th wont hold.

comments? im typin as to what come to mind. am i making any sense? did i mix up any timeline? hee...

Hmm its to much to quote together ^^. There are actualy 2 translations of the 35 years so the death of the 14th doesnt have to be 35 years ago. The other translation says that Road is the only one since 35 years ago that didnt reincarnate and from there on the text goes on. So the first noah could have died 35 years ago and the last one the 14th died 10 years ago so in that span it all happend.
So actualy the 14th could have placed the heart in Kanda as you said. Still unlikely tho. That the order or anyone else would experiment with teh heart piece and put it in danger knowing how Kanda is.

When Allen turns into the 14th he has to kill someone he loves thats the biggest clue so far about what will happen. Asuming its true then it has to be someone alive and known by the 14th or its even grimmer then that. It could be that he has to kill the one that has the heart to have the power to defeat the earl. Lenalee for example? or Lavi?
Bit to blunt obvious if its the earl.
Also Cross said dont die before its over this time. So what if this is linked to the loved one, he couldnt do it the first time and died? So now hes back to try again... Could be hes not after an exorsist then. So it has to be someone from way back when he was the previous 14th. Who could it be...

---

@anna vetra: Oh yeah, it's more possible that way. Hmm, and it makes me wonder why the fourteenth didn't like the Earl destroying mankind in the first place. Don't the Noahs love destruction? XD Uh, I guess we'll need more information before we can speculate on that.

So you're saying that the fourteenth just happened to meet a boy with innocence embeded in his arm since he was young? Hmm, the fourteenth is a real lucky guy (and Allen is a sad boy). XDD Oops.

Unlucky or not, Cross was possibly with them and they probably were with the order at the time. Or already formed the 3rd side like Cross calls it. Combined forces from Noahs and Exorsists. This also implies that innocence doesnt turn against its host if it works with noahs cause cross did back then.
It could have been a retrieval mission like in Martel. A strange kid with a metalic arm does stand out in a crowd could it be innocence? Go retrieve it Cross. And ofc the 14th & Mana could have been in their team. And at that time they got ambushed by the noahs only Earl and Road were left or maybe another i dunno. The last 2 noahs Earl and Road killed him and with his last powers he transfered to this kid they were trying to retrieve.
Cross didnt want to risk anything so they made the kid vanish. The order prolly would have made him a guineapig or kill him knowing who he would become.
the 14th seemed to have a lot of folowers so many could have been helping Allen in the direction back to Mana at the circus. Mana would recognize him straight away and teach him when he was ready. And he did. After his death Cross continued to teach him and now hes ready to awaken again.
Tho its hard to say i believe Allen will still be Allen but gained the knowledge understanding skills and memories of the previous 14th.

[KanouYuuki]

Unlucky or not, Cross was possibly with them and they probably were with the order at the time. Or already formed the 3rd side like Cross calls it. Combined forces from Noahs and Exorsists. This also implies that innocence doesnt turn against its host if it works with noahs cause cross did back then.
It could have been a retrieval mission like in Martel. A strange kid with a metalic arm does stand out in a crowd could it be innocence? Go retrieve it Cross. And ofc the 14th & Mana could have been in their team. And at that time they got ambushed by the noahs only Earl and Road were left or maybe another i dunno. The last 2 noahs Earl and Road killed him and with his last powers he transfered to this kid they were trying to retrieve.
Cross didnt want to risk anything so they made the kid vanish. The order prolly would have made him a guineapig or kill him knowing who he would become.
the 14th seemed to have a lot of folowers so many could have been helping Allen in the direction back to Mana at the circus. Mana would recognize him straight away and teach him when he was ready. And he did. After his death Cross continued to teach him and now hes ready to awaken again.
Tho its hard to say i believe Allen will still be Allen but gained the knowledge understanding skills and memories of the previous 14th.

Loved one... Isn't the 14th a Noah? And Noahs are a family? (Even though they are way too wacky) So what if the ones hat Allen's got to kill are simply the Noahs? It must've hurt hurt the 14th when he killed his own "family" members. It hurt Rhode to think that he betrayed them too; seeing as she always puts on a sad facve whenever it comes to 14th...

Yeah, I believe that the accommodators don't have to be exorcists to synchronize properly with their innocence.. It's the "will" of the innocence. Suman Dark was afraid to loose his life, he begged to a Noah thus betraying the "will" of the innocence and made him a Tagaochi or Fallen One. Lenalee had a very low synchro-rate with her innocence at a time too when she was playing "crybaby" and her character became weak. But when she got her resolve and stopped being the "crybaby", her synchro-rate got higher and she became stronger.. It's all got to do with the "Reason" why the innocence chose it's accommodator. The more the accommodator responds to that "Reason" the more stronger their synchro-rates become. =)

[ca12nag3]

Well its a person he loves. So not multiple people. And its a term Allen only used for his Father or brother lol. Pick your choice id say
I hardly think its an exorsist like Lenalee or Lavi for that matter since i dont think Cross would be ok with it if the 14th was going to harm 1 of them.
There is only 1 person who then qualifies and thats Road... realy Cross wouldnt mention it if its the earl since he hates him and the relation with the earl is already complicated as it is. Another option but that is rejected by many could be Tyki, somehow he likes Allen but never realy shows why. Yet Road says he does, also he looks like that person. Wisley knows the 14th and wouldnt refer to him as that person but more as that traitor or something like the 14th. So im going to think that that person was Mana a Clown perhaps the previous noah of joy? It would fit. 2 brothers noahs that have a strong bond, yet the catch is if he was a noah why didnt the earl kill him sooner or showed recognision at his grave?

The synchro-rate hmm havnt looked at it much but Lenalee did not pass the 100% barrier at least its not that Hevlaska said anything bout it. It sure is a special case. On the other hand seeing how Timothy interacts with his innocence is strange at itself as well.
What Wisely said about the noah must work in a similar fashion, the human hosts suppressing the noah memories, to not lose their identities.
Seeing when Tyki got consumed by the memories he kinda lost his human side and his powers went way higher then before.
So were innocence benifits from a sychro-rate understanding the innocence as it were, Allen learned to know its innocence, Lenalee learned as well.
The Noah does it as well that when the noah host surrenders itself to the noah memories the power increases.
Both cases are slightly different in a way that the syncrorate doesnt mean you lose your humanity but with the noah it consumes the host.

[KanouYuuki]

why didnt the earl kill him sooner or showed recognision at his grave?

Even the Duke doesn't know why he didn't kill Allen sooner. =/
So, he must've known who was the Mana that Allen knew.

[ca12nag3]

I was talking about Mana. If he were a noah and sided with the 14th brother or not he would have killed him sooner i think. Unless at a final atempt the 14th did something to the earl as well. Who knows.

[TitaniumChloride]

Well its a person he loves. So not multiple people. And its a term Allen only used for his Father or brother lol. Pick your choice id say
I hardly think its an exorsist like Lenalee or Lavi for that matter since i dont think Cross would be ok with it if the 14th was going to harm 1 of them.
There is only 1 person who then qualifies and thats Road...

Actually, the words Cross used for "loved one" is more like 'important human' 大事な人間 rather than 'important person' 大事な人 (which is the term Allen uses). I don't really know how to explain it properly, but the term Cross used seems more impersonal. It makes me think that it's going to be a human that doesn't seem human? (e.g a Noah) If that's true then you're probably right about Road. Also, since the series would be even angstier that way, that's likely the case.

On another note, about the 14th as a Noah... Wisely and the Earl mentioned it already: The (non-Earl) Noahs are basically reincarnations of of the second to thirteenth Noahs from seven thousand years ago, therefore only 12 Noahs apart from the Earl. Where would an extra Noah come from? This would make Mana being a Noah even more unlikely, though I think he's still connected to the Earl somehow.

My guess is that the Heart manilpulated the Noah genes in someone (the 14th) to create a new Noah that would infiltrate the Earl's group.

But that's impossible right?

[pirateninjahunter]

How can the earl become young? it seems that he is able to do lots of things.

[ca12nag3]

The earl become young? hes ancient :P he just looks young cause he choses to look younger.
Road has that same ability and i asume all noah can take on an apearance that makes them look younger. Or just not aging.
What im so puzzled about is if its Lusts ability to morph then its no big deal since all can do that tho Lust can change her shape as well so thats her bonus i guess.

[Dofla]

Not a spoiler, just a reminder from this month's issue of Jump Square, only one month to wait more :



Cover and Color page for Gray.

By the courtesy of SaitheShaman.

[Tygulopk]

The earl become young? hes ancient :P he just looks young cause he choses to look younger.
Road has that same ability and i asume all noah can take on an apearance that makes them look younger. Or just not aging.
What im so puzzled about is if its Lusts ability to morph then its no big deal since all can do that tho Lust can change her shape as well so thats her bonus i guess.

Notice how when the Noah's skin turn gray and they grow Stigmata? I'm pretty sure that's their true forms (Lulubell's hair changes color, Wisely gains eyes).
If all the Noah could change forms on whim, it would make Lulubell's ability seem fairly useless.