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Thread: Can dead people have children?

  1. #1
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Can dead people have children?

    We've been seeing a lot of kids in the Soul Society, and we've saw Rukia and Renji when they were young, so we know that kids do "grow up" when they are in Soul Society.

    I was wondering if the dead people and the Shinigami can have children?
    As far as I remember, the dead people, when they die, don't have a family and are like "adopted" by other dead people who became their family...

    But, I was wondering... do you think that dead people can have children?
    Any thoughts?


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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    I think shinigami can have children. If that wasnt the case there wouldnt be anything noble about the 4 noble families in soul society and kaien wouldnt be related to ganju and kukaku. I dont think byakuyas family would have had any issue with byakuya adopting rukia as a member of the family or him marrying rukias sister if they were all originally dead humans who went to rukonkai.

    Also note that ginrei kuchiki is remarkably similar to byakuya, I doubt that is a coincidence lol.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member stevenash's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Then...can hollow have babies?...Halibel and Barragan having a child?...

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    Intl Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member gao_dargon's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    well, Ichigo's dad is a shinigami in a shikai isnt he? that means he is "dead" but he had not only 1 but 3 children
    cuz if he thinks that i know that he is thinking what i think he is thinking then he thinks i know he thiks that, but he dont know that i know that he knows...savy

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Well of course they can have childrens, remember that kuchiki family didnt grow by itself, byakuya is born in soul society, thats why its so crowed with people.

    There are 2 type of people in bleach, Death in the human realm that go to SS and those who are born from souls in SS.

    Of course there is a rule stated by the databook that if you die by normal causes in SS you get to be reborn into the human realm, thats the cause of the quincy extermination, they were destroying souls so the normal stream of people going to SS and Spirist being born again in human realm was unbalanced

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    yes unless the nobles are a bunch of rukongai families who died together in the real world. we also have real sibling releationships like kukkaku, ganju and kaein to look at, plus they are nobles as well.
    Bleach 354-356 spoiler and chapter discussions. Most hilarious ones ever. How hueco mundo and The Lust arc killed "ichihime"
    Spoiler: What happened with Nel and Kenpachi after Ichigo went to Ulqiorra(vol 39 sketches) show

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ozehro's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josear XIII View Post
    Well of course they can have childrens, remember that kuchiki family didnt grow by itself, byakuya is born in soul society, thats why its so crowed with people.

    There are 2 type of people in bleach, Death in the human realm that go to SS and those who are born from souls in SS.

    Of course there is a rule stated by the databook that if you die by normal causes in SS you get to be reborn into the human realm, thats the cause of the quincy extermination, they were destroying souls so the normal stream of people going to SS and Spirist being born again in human realm was unbalanced
    this is the correct explanation. the bleachverse has sort of cyclic existence.
    you die in the "real world" then you move in to one of the spirit dimensions. but if you die in a spirit world then you return back to the real world. there's continuous flux of souls going back and forth.
    and the only difference between the two world is that one is made
    entirely out of spirit particles and the other with normal particles.
    and shinigami are so much like humans. they need to eat,sleep and
    even have blood running about. so they must also be capable of
    carrying out other human functions like reproduction as well..

    *Predictions:*
    |Ulquiorra was the only VL under Aizen|
    |Aizen is not the last villain in Bleach|
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Revolation's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozehro View Post
    this is the correct explanation. the bleachverse has sort of cyclic existence.
    you die in the "real world" then you move in to one of the spirit dimensions. but if you die in a spirit world then you return back to the real world. there's continuous flux of souls going back and forth.
    and the only difference between the two world is that one is made
    entirely out of spirit particles and the other with normal particles.
    and shinigami are so much like humans. they need to eat,sleep and
    even have blood running about. so they must also be capable of
    carrying out other human functions like reproduction as well..
    don't forget that people who don't have spirit energy and are souls don't have to eat or drink but i'm not trying to hinder your explanation, just adding to it.
    Bleach 354-356 spoiler and chapter discussions. Most hilarious ones ever. How hueco mundo and The Lust arc killed "ichihime"
    Spoiler: What happened with Nel and Kenpachi after Ichigo went to Ulqiorra(vol 39 sketches) show

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner poshpurple's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josear XIII View Post
    Well of course they can have childrens, remember that kuchiki family didnt grow by itself, byakuya is born in soul society, thats why its so crowed with people.

    There are 2 type of people in bleach, Death in the human realm that go to SS and those who are born from souls in SS.

    Of course there is a rule stated by the databook that if you die by normal causes in SS you get to be reborn into the human realm, thats the cause of the quincy extermination, they were destroying souls so the normal stream of people going to SS and Spirist being born again in human realm was unbalanced
    Where is it said that Byakuya was born in Soul Society? If he was part of the Royal Family, doesn't that imply they have special characteristics such as high reiatsu. So once human Byakuya died, someone is bound to tell him about his family.
    ---
    I didn't think spirits could have children. Isn't that counterproductive? Giving birth to something means you give life. So that means one gives birth to something dead?
    Besides, Ichigo was only born because Isshin was in a gigai, giving him human substance and therefore human functions.
    Having children is also pointless. Lets say everybody in Soul Society has a child. Doesn't that disrupt the balance somebody pointed out?
    On the arguments concerning Kaien and Byakuya, couldn't they have been related in their human lives?
    Last edited by poshpurple; June 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    Where is it said that Byakuya was born in Soul Society? If he was part of the Royal Family, doesn't that imply they have special characteristics such as high reiatsu. So once human Byakuya died, someone is bound to tell him about his family.
    ---
    I didn't think spirits could have children. Isn't that counterproductive? Giving birth to something means you give life. So that means one gives birth to something dead?
    Besides, Ichigo was only born because Isshin was in a gigai, giving him human substance and therefore human functions.
    Having children is also pointless. Lets say everybody in Soul Society has a child. Doesn't that disrupt the balance somebody pointed out?
    On the arguments concerning Kaien and Byakuya, couldn't they have been related in their human lives?
    now this is really funny, Where is it said that Isshin is into a gigai? Have you evere read the part where it was said that ichigo was a pure blood? A shinigami born from a shinigami, well i dont know if im wrong here but its totally saying that shinigami can have childrens, also shinigami are pluses or as you say Dead People, and remember that soul society is like a second life, you do everything you can do in the living realm, well im extending myself too much in here, Just with the part that says that A pure blood is a shinigami born from a shinigami is more than enough.

    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...87-page-9.html
    {i asked Cnet to translate this page just in case but im pretty sure of what it says when he translate it, if he wants of course, i will double my conclusion}

    Oh yeah remember that there are shinigamis that are born being shinigami, not every shinigami is a plus who discovered powers within and went to the academia to become shinigami. And yes Byakuya was born soul society, every dead people remember their past lives, i havent seen byakuya remembering being human or something he is always proud and full of himself of being a Kuchiki, and he was hardly punished for marrying Rukia's sister who wasnt a noble, So byakuya must be a noble born within the Kuchiki Family.

    And there is a High difference into being a noble and a member of the royal family, Royal family as you say, have special characteristic, we dont know what, because till the moment they havent even shown their faces, Byakuya is a noble, which are families formed by people who are from shinigami pure linage, so to say, born from Shinigami who where born form shinigami, no pluses allowed within the linage, just pure blood shinigami. Royal family doesnt even live in Seireitei but in their realm
    Last edited by Josear XIII; June 30, 2009 at 08:56 AM.

  13. #11
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Shinigami are not plusses. Plusses are just human souls with no reiatsu. Shinigami have reiatsu, they eat and they age.....

    Now, we have seen byakuya's grandfather and I would find it extremely unlikely if he is not his real grandfather. It would be even more unlikely that they were actually related in an hypothetical human life(which I don't believe they had). If the noble families are not really related to each other, then the whole noble thing bykuya and the four other families have going for them is completely absurd. The idea of nobility only works when the members of a family are actually related.

  14. #12
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner poshpurple's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josear XIII View Post
    now this is really funny, Where is it said that Isshin is into a gigai? Have you evere read the part where it was said that ichigo was a pure blood? A shinigami born from a shinigami, well i dont know if im wrong here but its totally saying that shinigami can have childrens, also shinigami are pluses or as you say Dead People, and remember that soul society is like a second life, you do everything you can do in the living realm, well im extending myself too much in here, Just with the part that says that A pure blood is a shinigami born from a shinigami is more than enough.
    Its called reading between the lines.
    Spoiler show


    Obviously Urahara has something to do with Isshin when he is in this human state/form/whatever. My guess was a gigai. After all, Urahara was 12 division captain, so he must know some science right? But it doesn't matter whether its a gigai or not. Urahara did something to Isshin to hid/mask/take away his shinigami powers. So what's a spirit with no Shingami powers? Just a spirit? Add a gigai and before long they sync with it like with Rukia, and note Urahara's warning
    Spoiler show

    "It will synchronize with your body more." So why can't he give Isshin a gigai and sync him up to it?
    Quote Quote:
    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...87-page-9.html
    {i asked Cnet to translate this page just in case but im pretty sure of what it says when he translate it, if he wants of course, i will double my conclusion}
    Yeah, Ichigo is the son of a Shinigami. But don't forget his mother was human. So already he has human blood in him. Isshin obviously has done something to hid his Shinigami presence, like say enter a gigai. I'm not saying Shinigami can't have kids period. I'm saying they need to be of human form/substance before anything happens. Don't forget that shinigami are not human. They may look and act human. But they are made of spirit particles, something humans are not made of.

    Quote Quote:
    Oh yeah remember that there are shinigamis that are born being shinigami, not every shinigami is a plus who discovered powers within and went to the academia to become shinigami. And yes Byakuya was born soul society, every dead people remember their past lives, i havent seen byakuya remembering being human or something he is always proud and full of himself of being a Kuchiki, and he was hardly punished for marrying Rukia's sister who wasnt a noble, So byakuya must be a noble born within the Kuchiki Family.
    Where does it say some Shinigami's are born Shinigami's? A Plus goes to Soul Society and there generally someone tells them of Seireitei, Shinigami Academy and the whole idea of being a Shinigami.

    Quote Quote:
    And there is a high difference into being a noble and a member of the royal family, Royal family as you say, have special characteristics, we don't know what, because till the moment they haven't even shown their faces. Byakuya is a noble, which are families formed by people who are from shinigami pure linage, so to say, born from Shinigami who where born from shinigami, no pluses allowed within the linage, just pure blood shinigami. Royal family doesn't even live in Seireitei but in their
    realm
    I didn't mean Royal as in the Royal Guard/Spirit King and what not. I meant as in the 4 Noble Families. Guess I used the wrong word choice.
    I still don't see why they have to be related in this life. Why couldn't they have been related in their human lives? Wouldn't that make them a special family; if they all found each other because of their high spiritual pressure? We still don't really know what makes a noble family noble.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again, what is the point of having dead children? To further one's species? Why do that when spirits are coming in every day?
    This is BLEACH not Breaking Fail

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    I read somewhere that people born in SS automatically enter the nobilty. I think that was in a databook but I can´t remember where exactly I read that. I will keep looking.

    EDIT:Woot, found it:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showt...2772#post12772
    Regardless of the porpose, spirits can have babies in SS.
    Last edited by kkck; June 30, 2009 at 02:29 PM.

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  17. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    Its called reading between the lines.
    Spoiler show


    Obviously Urahara has something to do with Isshin when he is in this human state/form/whatever. My guess was a gigai. After all, Urahara was 12 division captain, so he must know some science right? But it doesn't matter whether its a gigai or not. Urahara did something to Isshin to hid/mask/take away his shinigami powers. So what's a spirit with no Shingami powers? Just a spirit? Add a gigai and before long they sync with it like with Rukia, and note Urahara's warning
    Spoiler show

    "It will synchronize with your body more." So why can't he give Isshin a gigai and sync him up to it?
    I read a lot between the lines but still people flame me

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    Yeah, Ichigo is the son of a Shinigami. But don't forget his mother was human. So already he has human blood in him. Isshin obviously has done something to hid his Shinigami presence, like say enter a gigai. I'm not saying Shinigami can't have kids period. I'm saying they need to be of human form/substance before anything happens. Don't forget that shinigami are not human. They may look and act human. But they are made of spirit particles, something humans are not made of.
    Humans are not made of Reishi but their souls are, if you havent seen that, because human body is a container. Gigai is an imitation of that container, but in essence the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    Where does it say some Shinigami's are born Shinigami's? A Plus goes to Soul Society and there generally someone tells them of Seireitei, Shinigami Academy and the whole idea of being a Shinigami.
    Databooks? o.o (obvious sarcasms)

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    I didn't mean Royal as in the Royal Guard/Spirit King and what not. I meant as in the 4 Noble Families. Guess I used the wrong word choice.
    I still don't see why they have to be related in this life. Why couldn't they have been related in their human lives? Wouldn't that make them a special family; if they all found each other because of their high spiritual pressure? We still don't really know what makes a noble family noble.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have you read where in bleach says that even "families" that live in the rukongai are formed by several people who are just gathered up. Because when you die you are lined into almost and endless line of dead people who are assigned into a district at random. Remember the kid that chad found at the arrival in SS, i'll give you a refresh:

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/76/09/

    There is well explained why you can't die and go around and finding your family. Nor to say that the great spiritual pressure is not a give away to find a friend, specially since you cant locate something that you have never felt (I'm pointing here that most humans never have released their reiatsu so you cant know how Pedro's reiatsu is) and most likely you didnt have talent to beging with.

    and kkcc give you something to get references

    Quote Originally Posted by poshpurple View Post
    Again, what is the point of having dead children? To further one's species? Why do that when spirits are coming in every day?
    This is BLEACH not Breaking Fail
    WEEEEEELL Dont ask ME! ask kubo, baby. He is the one who made the series. It doesnt matter how useless is that fact that dead people have childrens, the fact is there and nothing we can do about it.

    Now an update for you:
    There are 3 classes of death people:

    -Pluses from the Human World: people who died and got purified by shinigami and reach SS
    -Born Pluses: who were born into SS
    -Shinigami: Who were born as actual shinigami the so called true blood.

    From Cnet. Grand fisher explains.
    Quote Originally Posted by cnet128 View Post
    Fisher: I see... / If his father is a Shinigami... / ...then that would make Kurosaki Ichigo a "Trueblood"... // That would explain how he was able to best me in battle...
    1-Now you can be a shinigami by two ways, one is being born into the Seireitei which make you Shinigami automatically since you are born form talented Reiryoku users, which will be mirrored upon you.

    2-Being a plus You become talented at awakening you Reiryoku as rukia did, since she was a dead person who was purified as a baby, if you are not familiarized with this part. And go to the shinigami academy to take the entry test (which of course not EVERYONE can pass) you dont awake in Rukongai and get the info of seirietei and said, "OH shinigami is better i will go and become one" if was that simple, Seireitei would be like the whole SS.

    Now aside that, believe me i have read between the lines for like 3 years, im part of a staff who is creating a Text based rpg about bleach where we are trying to get everything explained because the databooks themselves do not explain everything and something like this:

    * A soul which has passed a "fixed period" in Soul Society will eventually reincarnate back to the Living World.

    Are not easy to get explained and detailed if the details aren't clear enough, so to fill plot holes and everything else, i had to make up a lot of things that does not turn into irrational. HELL IM STILL LOOKING FOR A WEAKNESS INTO THE VIZARDS because if they are out of weak points like Rakan, then everyone who plays will choose shinigami because one way or another they will reach the masks. So reading between the lines is kinda my specialty.

    I thank KKcK for putting down the link of databook translations here in MH where i have been, because there are the points that makes the whole dead people having dead children something normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I read somewhere that people born in SS automatically enter the nobilty. I think that was in a databook but I can´t remember where exactly I read that. I will keep looking.

    EDIT:Woot, found it:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showt...2772#post12772
    Regardless of the porpose, spirits can have babies in SS.
    Im putting it here so everyone can see them and Bolding the important ones for this thread

    A few of these are common sense confirmations from the Bleach character book VIBEs which was published and released earlier this week, but I thought they'd be nice to share with the community (Original source, Bleach Notes blog):

    * Only a small amount of souls which house superior spirit powers and thus carries the capacity to be a Shinigami graduate from the masses of Rukongai.

    * Furthermore, of these graduating Shinigami, only a select few have the talent to join the Gotei 13.

    * All Shinigami find existance as a sort of aristocrat and are allowed to dwell inside of the Seireitei.

    * A soul which has passed a "fixed period" in Soul Society will eventually reincarnate back to the Living World.

    * If a soul is born within the Seireitei, it will automatically gain nobility in Soul Society.

    * There is a royalty class in Soul Society.

    * It's unclear what the King actually does, other than he has a specific system of "specialy duties" which are actively carried out. The duties apparently require a very high level of competency or skill of some sort.

    * In the Four Noble Houses, it is clear that the only ones revealed are the Kuchiki and Shihouin families.

    * There were Five Noble Houses at one time, but the Shiba family fell into ruin...

    * While the Gotei 13's main duty is to defend the Seireitei, they are also allocated districts (Rukongai?) to defend.

    * In addition to these duties, Shinigami also have to deal with the business of being assigned to the Living World.

    * Each Division is made up of just over 200 Shinigami, with the Gotei 13's standing force being just around 3000 total enlisted troops.

    * The Central 46 deals not only with the judicial system, but also with general administration and legislature.

    - We finally know the 1st Division fuku-taichou's name: 雀部長次郎 (Sasakibe Choutarou)
    - Hantarou's zanpakutou (so he DOES have one -.-; name: 瓢丸 (Hisagomaru)
    - Soul Society has a royal family in the administration hierachy ... so there's a king? o_o
    - Shiba family used to be the fifth noble family ... not one of the four as the fans speculated. Interesting. So out of the four families, the only ones revealed so far are the Kuchiki and Shihouin family.
    - Members of the noble family are born in Soul Society.

    Which gives already that "dead people" can have childrens, and as Kkck Said, whats the point of being callled noble family if the bonds are false. The whole point of the nobility is to continue a linage of blood, and Byakuya would have not been lectured and punished for marrying Hanami the sister of rukia, since it does not matter, of course obvious sarcasm.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Shinigami are not plusses. Plusses are just human souls with no reiatsu. Shinigami have reiatsu, they eat and they age.....
    Just one name.... Rukia. She was a human killed as a baby, and then turned into a plus who gradually would become aware of her reiryoku control and then will take the test to be a shinigami because life into seireitei is better. Finally, Being a shinigami is kinda a citizenship because the fact that you control reiatsu does not make you a shinigami. They are all Pluses if you examine well the facts

    Everyone age in SS, they just age slowly, no matter shinigami or not

    Kukakku is not a shinigami, also ganjyu is not a shinigami and they control reiryoku, kukakku even do Kidoh, the fact that they eat is because the waste reiryoku, if you are hungry being death its just a signal of being able to control reiryoku

  18. #15
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Can dead people have children?

    Quote Quote:
    Just one name.... Rukia. She was a human killed as a baby, and then turned into a plus who gradually would become aware of her reiryoku control and then will take the test to be a shinigami because life into seireitei is better. Finally, Being a shinigami is kinda a citizenship because the fact that you control reiatsu does not make you a shinigami. They are all Pluses if you examine well the facts

    Everyone age in SS, they just age slowly, no matter shinigami or not

    Kukakku is not a shinigami, also ganjyu is not a shinigami and they control reiryoku, kukakku even do Kidoh, the fact that they eat is because the waste reiryoku, if you are hungry being death its just a signal of being able to control reiryoku
    What I meant by that is not that they were an entirely different specie altogether but they were different. A plus is a normal human soul with not spiritual powers. A shinigami is technically a soul but it has reiatsu. A soul with spiritual power eats, age, can have children....

    I know rukia once lived in the HW as a human but right now she can't be considered a plus. Also, urahara planned to turn her into a normal human spirit with his gigai, in other words a plus. If she was already a plus, there would not be a need to turn her into a normal human spirit right?

    The thing here, is that the words plus and shinigami don't mean a different specie, they merely point out a different stage of a spiritual being. It is true kukaku and ganju are not shinigami but they also are not plusses. They are part of the shiba clan, the former great noble clan. That means they were never human, they were born as spirit beings with high spirit powers (evidenced as ganju has never had a formal shinigami training yet in his 50 short years of live he developed enough power to fight on par and even above seated officers.)

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