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Thread: Gantz is not using teleportation.

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member georgemarvin's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz 295 Discussion/296 Prediction Thread

    Welcome, abtesk! Great to have you aboard. Oku's stories are always a wild ride. Feel free to throw out some ideas, theories, etc.; we all get a lot of enjoyment out of bouncing all these wild theories around. Every great occasion, we're even right about one.

    Quote Quote:
    Since Kato did not do that, he must of known that it was him that defeated Nuri, effectively ruling that possibility out.

    So we're back to square one, the two options as I see it is

    1) You can bring back any weapon item or persons you're holding onto when the transfer starts.
    2) Gantz is messed up and made a mistake during the transfer.

    I like the first option but since that has not happened before, I'm going to stick with option two.
    We've had some spirited discussions about the rules of transfer in previous threads. Gantz normally transfers them back in the position they were in a few seconds before the liquid containers in the suit break or they sustain major damage. If they aren't wearing the suit, they are transferred back at the point a few seconds before their bodies are first damaged.

    Katou came back to the room in the position he was in when he was pulling Anzu out of the big monster at the theater WAAAAY back in the early part of the mission. He didn't have the H-gun yet. Therefore, he shouldn't have gotten to keep it.

    Oku is pretty consistent concerning the positions they are in when they're transferred back; there are literally dozens of examples scattered throughout the missions.

    The only inconsistency in the transport rule was that after the Nuri mission, for the rules to remain consistent, Nishi should have kept the H-gun that he shot Nuri with.

    Nishi wasn't carrying the H-gun when we first saw him after the Nuri mission. However, Nishi was one of the first to transport; he had been in the room a while, and he could have put it in storage as soon as he got there. After all, Katou mentioned how heavy it was, and he is much stronger than Nishi. Also, his suit seems to be able to store more than one weapon and call them up as he needs them, so he could have stored the weapon in his suit, like the X-rifle, X-pistol and Y-gun. Since he had an H-gun during this mission, it could either be the same one he shot Nuri with, or one he picked up off the ground. We don't really know. One thing we do know is that the one he kept after this mission ended had already disappeared by page 7; he put it in storage, whether in the side room or in his suit, a few seconds after he transferred.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz 295 Discussion/296 Prediction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kaliayev View Post
    Sigh, sometimes, people evoke a deep desire within me to gouge out my eyes. Your "theory" only holds with people who are injured (keep in mind that injuries don't have to be clearly illustrated), and similar transfer theories have been expressed in far better terms, and with fewer holes, elsewhere.

    @amnesiac
    This is really the only page you needed:

    http://view.thespectrum.net/series/g...v02c18p143.jpg
    That page really illustrates it perfectly.


    Gantz556, you just ignored the screaming flaws pointed out in your theory. We've shown you the pages, and explained the painfully simple reasoning. What part of "a brainless person can't speak or move or do anything at all" didn't you understand?

    The "theory" is wrong, simply stating "I'm not convinced" doesn't make it right.



    About the h-gun and Nishi. I thought that like Katou was brought back from a point way before he got injured, Nishi probably also came from a very early state before he picked up the gun.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    I don't see the point of making a thread about a disproved theory, there's nothing left to discuss.

    http://view.thespectrum.net/series/g...v02c18p143.jpg

    Brainless people don't talk.

  5. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    For crying out loud. Are you mentally challenged?

    If the transfers are making copies, then the Kurono in the room is a new clone being made with no connection to the one being destroyed outside.

    But a person without a brain can't talk or move. And we can clearly see even though the Kurono in the room still doesn't have the brain in, he acts and talks normally, in harmony with the actions of the Kurono outside, "as if they were one".

    CONCLUSION: There aren't two Kuronos. The Kurono in the room is part of the Kurono disappearing outside, both parts are connected.

    How hard is it to get? I'm close to throwing myself out the window here.
    Last edited by Amnesiac; April 01, 2009 at 08:00 PM.

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Damura's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz 295 Discussion/296 Prediction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by georgemarvin View Post
    We've had some spirited discussions about the rules of transfer in previous threads. Gantz normally transfers them back in the position they were in a few seconds before the liquid containers in the suit break or they sustain major damage. If they aren't wearing the suit, they are transferred back at the point a few seconds before their bodies are first damaged.

    Katou came back to the room in the position he was in when he was pulling Anzu out of the big monster at the theater WAAAAY back in the early part of the mission. He didn't have the H-gun yet. Therefore, he shouldn't have gotten to keep it.

    Oku is pretty consistent concerning the positions they are in when they're transferred back; there are literally dozens of examples scattered throughout the missions.

    The only inconsistency in the transport rule was that after the Nuri mission, for the rules to remain consistent, Nishi should have kept the H-gun that he shot Nuri with.

    Nishi wasn't carrying the H-gun when we first saw him after the Nuri mission. However, Nishi was one of the first to transport; he had been in the room a while, and he could have put it in storage as soon as he got there. After all, Katou mentioned how heavy it was, and he is much stronger than Nishi. Also, his suit seems to be able to store more than one weapon and call them up as he needs them, so he could have stored the weapon in his suit, like the X-rifle, X-pistol and Y-gun. Since he had an H-gun during this mission, it could either be the same one he shot Nuri with, or one he picked up off the ground. We don't really know. One thing we do know is that the one he kept after this mission ended had already disappeared by page 7; he put it in storage, whether in the side room or in his suit, a few seconds after he transferred.


    Are you sure about Katou in the Nuri mission, that he was transferred from the backup taken when he was pulling Anzu out? Katou's suit didn't break until Oka killed Nuri and walked off.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    They are talking, without a brain.

    Never mind that your idea also completely fails to pass Occam's razor.

    Because brainless people don't talk.

  8. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Damura's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post
    For crying out loud. Are you mentally challenged?

    If the transfers are making copies, then the Kurono in the room is a new clone being made with no connection to the one being destroyed outside.

    But a person without a brain can't talk or move. And we can clearly see even though the Kurono in the room still doesn't have the brain in, he acts and talks normally, in harmony with the actions of the Kurono outside, "as if they were one".

    CONCLUSION: There aren't two Kuronos. The Kurono in the room is part of the Kurono disappearing outside, both parts are connected.

    How hard is it to get? I'm close to throwing myself out the window here.
    I agree with you there. The ultimate proof that both parts are connected can be found in mission 2, when the top half of Kei's body was forced to dodge a bus because Gantz decided to transfer him in the middle of the road. Kei's lower half responded to the movements of the top half, and if I recall correctly, Kei's legs even crashed into the wall in the apartment, hindering the top half's movements.

    Although this applies for the transfer from the apartment to the mission location, it seems to change when it's from 'home' to the apartment. I remember once that Kei's body was 'frozen' while he was on the toilet and he was transferred in that state, unable to move. He was able to think though.

  9. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gantz556 View Post
    The laser beam of Gantz moves faster than the speed of light.

    The copying process does not happen on a large-scale, but on the molecular level. Possibly the subatomic level
    This is completely irrelevant. You're clueless.

    It's a given that gantz rebuilds the players atom by atom regardless if his making a copy or rebuilding the original.

    We know nothing of the speed of the beam, we can and should assume it moves at speed of light. But again, it's irrelevant to the discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gantz556 View Post
    I am not surprised if the human brain does not stop functioning when a new copy is being made.
    FFS!

    It doesn't stop functioning because it doesn't exist yet! According to your "theory", the Kurono appearing in the room is a copy, a new Kurono. You can't say "his brain doesn't stop functioning" because it hasn't been created yet. YET there he is, speaking, seeing and slapping the miles-away Katou with his non-existent hands.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gantz556 View Post
    Human consciousness or the mind is not limited to the human brain. Brainless people can possibly talk, believe it or not.
    LOL. No. Educate yourself please.



    Now excuse me, I'm gonna drink a bottle of sulfuric acid.
    Last edited by Amnesiac; April 01, 2009 at 08:52 PM.

  10. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kaliayev's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Ugh, you're theory implies that, via copying, there would be some sort of lag. Copying, saving, and then recreating data couldn't possibly be instantaneous (it may seem that way when you mess with files on your computer, but it still takes a fraction of a second to accomplish such a task). I don't care how complex gantz is, it wouldn't be possible to maintain the stream of consciousness and sense perception in the page I provided if he were using copies for non-injured people.
    Last edited by kaliayev; April 01, 2009 at 09:05 PM.
    Hello, Dave. Is that you, Dave?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Amnesiac's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gantz556 View Post
    If you say that "it doesn't stop functioning because it doesn't exist yet!"....does it mean you are agree with me? I guess, you mean something else.
    I said 'according to your theory'.


    Quote Quote:
    The new copy is just coming into existence. Meanwhile, the old copy is being erased out of existence. That is why I am not surprised if "brainless" people can talk in this manga.
    So you'd rather say strange biology rules in the gantz world than admit your theory is senseless?


    Quote Quote:
    Technically, they are not really brainless, because their old body still exists. In my hypothesis, the destruction of the old copy does not disrupt the human consciousness. There is a direct connection to the old and new copies, due to the laser beam of Gantz.
    If they're copies then there's no connection. No connection, then we have brainless people talking.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member georgemarvin's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Looks like I was wrong. I thought he came back from this point:
    http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...251&page_nr=17

    But I was wrong. His suit didn't lose power until the blood balls hit him:
    http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...272&page_nr=25
    http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...279&page_nr=12

    It was still a long time before he picked up the H-gun, though.

  13. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    Nishi's comment about Gantz copying people was meant when you first
    die and transfered to Gantz. Not when you transfer in a mission or out
    a mission. Gantz is teleporting to place not making a copy.

  14. #28
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    According to your "theory", the Kurono appearing in the room is a copy, a new Kurono. and the other copy being destroyed, that is possible and explains a lot of things.
    althought when the transfer begins, and according to your theory, you have to create the copy and save the above until the new's being complete. And what we see is the body's being transfered part by part. Or you mean when a party is being copied the other is being destroyed?
    although it is a very good theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    In terms of pure intelligence and mental capacity the title belongs to Itachi. The guy could make a cat bark if he wanted to, and do so without his Sharingan.

  15. #29
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner abtesk's Avatar
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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    well, i wouldn't count that much on a real scientific basis behind okus work. the transport just creates to many controversies regarding real scientific possibilities.
    Gantz556 is right about the fact that teleportation cannot cause body modifications. that can only be achieved, if a copy (in one form or another, be it digital, or actual drawings on a piece of paper) of that body is available.
    but teleportation is the only means by which a human body can be moved in a way as shown in gantz without the person having to loose consciousness or not notice the transport itself.
    and who made up the timelag? was it ever shown in the manga? i can't remember any page, on which we saw a guy looking at a clock, then being transported and his wristwatch showing a trillion years difference!!
    whatever ....

    soooo, my guess is that oku completely failed :-D

    anyways. we do know for a fact that gantz owns digital files on the hunter's bodies. otherwise it couldn't show us a screen of all hunters to have ever paticipated in tokyo's hunts.
    remember, when kei "ressurected" katou?
    we were shown a scene, in which katou fought against thousandarms. he was killed, he fainted, and than all of a suddun he was back in the room.
    how do you wanna explain that?
    that's complety controversial to some of the transports involving hurt hunters!! they were either earlier versions of themselves, or, in fact, the hurt versions.
    as of right now, i don't see any kind of uniform rules for transport/ressurection/whatever you wanna call it. without oku showing us some form of consistency, we are all just throwing wild guesses at each other.

    there are a lot of scientific founded mechanisms to transport objects as shown in gantz, but oku seems to ramdomly decise in how far his transports affect the objects, or in other words, whatever the hell they are doing ....

    on a side note: the humans are shown to be transported layer after layer. when mister-vampire clang on to reika, i believe he was taller than reika's remains. and he got transported just because of touching reika. what about if you hold up your hands while being transported? they sure don't fall off. but how are they transported then? your hands wouldn't be "in line" with the rest of your body!! (i believe to have seen a pic, in which the laser divided itself among several limbs.)

    @georgemarvin:
    i don't think the status of the suit has got anything to do with the "save-file". when tea was killed, kei had already lost the chemicals way before that, but he was still crying in the same position having hold tea during the transport after being back in the room.

    conclusion: i would just combine the ideas. whenever gantz "teleports" a person, it's also making a digital copy of it, and it makes other, fresher copies during the fight to use, if the body is too damaged for a transport at the end of a mission.

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    Re: Gantz is not using teleportation.

    your theory is the explanation for all aspects of wound, what I mean is that when their hands are cut or the whole body is seriously injured, after the transfer they are new as if nothing happened, and that can't be due only if you save or make a copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    In terms of pure intelligence and mental capacity the title belongs to Itachi. The guy could make a cat bark if he wanted to, and do so without his Sharingan.

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