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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Didn't we already assume all of that? ^
I essentially agree with Hachiroo, but just to clarify. When the original body is being broken down and recreated elsewhere both the original and the copy are being kept in normal working order that's why the body can talk, move, and not go into heart attack every time it is "transferred". Where the missing body part should connected ,rather then blood spurting out like a severed limb, the blood and nerve signals are being recreated and broken down in sync with the copy so as far the body cares it's in one piece.
By the way, thread starter, were you aware that one theory on teleportation essentially asserts that transference must be reconstruction? The state from A, initiation of it, is exchanged to B, the final outcome of it, but the fact the state remains identical from A to B equates to it being 'travel' instead of 'cloning'.
The process technically could be regarded as replication, I admit, as it is when Kyou is cloned, yet I think it remains teleportation until there are two copies or the state is intrinsically modfiied during the exchange.
Last edited by Surreaoland; September 08, 2010 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
The copying theory doesn't apply because what's happening is not really akinable to loading in a videogame, that's instantaneous once it actually does happen and isn't a gradual process you observe and experience; what Gantz is actually doing is streaming. But the bodies are copied.
Gantz beams operate on three channels; one for deleting, one for copying, and one for streaming. The streaming beam is what's used to make a hand or body part aware falsely that it's connected. Let's say, Kurono's hand is being copied, but not attached to his body; yeowch! This would usually mean blood would seep out of it and he's fucked, but actually, as the hand is being copied cell by cell it is ran in a simulation in Gantz's main computer.
Let's say his hand is entirely copied now, and he sends a signal to his body to move his hand; the hand inside Gantz's computer that's copied then moves in the way it's asked, as the streaming beam picks up on the signal. The streaming beam is constantly giving feedback to the cells where the hand has been deleted off from, and it is getting the data on this shit from the virtual hand simulation; the feedback, conveyed through the streaming beam, is what lets the body know it's fine.
Move your hand in a way that it'd pull your arm to swing just on momentum alone? You don't have a hand, but the signal which did it is sent to where it would be; thus the streaming beam gets it, and the simulation does it. The simulation swings in real time, and sends the physics of the swinging back to the streaming beam so the wrist catches the momentum and moves.
This can consist of materialized blood, tendons, anything from the hand that's deleted; and it knows exactly what cells to materialize in real time to keep the body safe and entirely authentic, as the computer simulation of the hand for example would make sure it's accurate.
At the same time, it is using the streaming channel of a second beam by itself to reconstruct the hand elsewhere at the target location, and eventually the rest of the body as it becomes available in the computer simulation. The hand itself isn't floating, but the parts where it's streaming are; if your hand had a floating copy of your wrist as it is now, entirely attached to your body, warm and ruled by sentiency, the hand would float and wouldn't care if the wrist obeyed physics.
If the hand on the other side gets hit, the data goes through the feedback stream, to the computer simulation; the replica of the hand in the computer is damaged the same way, and the data from the damaged hand is streamed to the original side. This allows you to think you got hit and feel the pain.
Also even though I know this is true I kind of hate it. Makes the struggles seem stupidly pointless.
Last edited by Sat; September 17, 2010 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I personally favor the particle theory. Why? Because it makes more sense. To say that he is building a copy when he 'transports' them, is wrong because chances are it would be even simpler, and even more materially conservative, to heal them. I'm not saying no cloning is involved, it clearly is, but I don't think a person who is living, that is being transported, is just a clone on the other side. What you're saying is he builds them on the spot, and to me, it would actually be simpler to transport them particle by particle than to try to build a clone particle by particle there or to transport a clone through the particle method. They may even use some unique cloning method to heal any damaged parts, and any of the non-organic material being transferred could be explained off as a science fiction variation of an SLS laser or something to that effect.
My point is, the particle theory makes more sense, and the clone theory does not, even though I will not deny there is definitely some cloning going on. If I get proven wrong for embracing this theory, then I will kind of be disappointed with Oda for lack of practicality.
There seems to be an apparent memory loss when people are 'healed'. They only seem to remember events from moments before they are injured on the field. This suggests that the body is not healed, but rather that it is reconstructed based on data from a time when the body was whole.
On the other hand, it cured cancer in some guy from mission #1. Can Gantz heal people? Yeah. Does it? No. Not all the time.
I am inclined to agree with Sat's description of the process, if I understand it correctly, although I don't think that a virtual hand simulation program or whatever. The brain controls the body by sending signals back and forth to everything. The brain can be deceived if you send false signals to it. Gantz wouldn't need a simulation at all if it can stream cells back and forth perfectly. As the body is being transferred, the correct signals would transfer along with it. As far as the brain is concerned, the rest of the body would be attached and controllable as normal.
So... yeah... I don't think it would require a computer simulating human movements or anything like that. The brain would take care of that.
It's obvious that gantz only chooses to create a clone/copy when it's necessary (i.e. when the gantzer is badly injured). In all other instances (e.g. from real world to gantz room, or room to mission) I would say it's a form of teleportation.
One thing about saved data. The vamps were able to get in the room by holding on to the gantzers. Unlikely that gantz would have their data in there. So it's more like cut and paste. Maybe it's a really slow wormhole/cloak of some sort that let's you view their insides while transporting.
The current gantzers were also able to transport in the current arc without a "gantz" present.
more than just rebuild is going on also suspension of gravity as head first, an floats
i have read all the theories of copy-paste, particles teletransportation etc, but to make it simple, i believe that gantz is not just the black ball in the room..
it might be the entire world, which has become a complex digital program ruled by " unknown " entity.
I am thinking of it like The Matrix movie without the " real " world part (aka Zion).
I mean, the point of this manga could bring us, the readers, to re-think the human condition. Some major war could have ended the entire human race, and Gantz would be the witness of post human life with all the data it has stored from time to time.
therefore, Gantz itself "recreates" the world as it was virtually-like to learn or understand what could have caused the human's extinction... or to know the " entity " responsible for
For me, Gantz is a fable with morals. Right now with the katastrophe chapter we can clearly understand how humans in general could be reduced to insects if giants humanoid from distant planet invaded earth. Problem is, in the real life we're the giant humanoid acting-like with all sorts of creatures etc.. which tend to make us look like in-humans.
i dont know anything else
The entire world, the entire universe, ruled by a spiritual plan could be the thing behind all these Gantz shits? I mean, we never knew exactly what was controling the black spheres - and now, with REAL aliens attacking Earth, that "artificial, manmade" theory fell down.
Anyway, we have to wait a Oku's answer - and pray to him hurry up. Gantz, now, is monthly, right? That way we'll wait for another 10 years or more.
I don't think Gantz is monthly....
So is it fortnightly? Anyway, I think that's a little slow. And when the chapter is released, we don't see a lot of useful information. That is why I said that the Katastrophe would end after some more years.
I don't have much to complain, btw. Think is a little bit exciting wait for new pages of story and action, but not so long ):
When you're waiting for each new chapter as they come it definitely seems pretty slow-paced.
I joined this site in May 2008 (apparently), and by then Oku was just approaching the Nuri fight. Three years later he's finished off Osaka, completed that really small Italy mission and has just now started Katastrophe...
Lol it takes fucking forever.
When you read the whole thing over a short period of time though it all comes together quite well... Unfortunately it does take a long time... Gantz could quite easily have another 3-5 years to go.