Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

[ying_su]

Oh~ let see: he is alive because he has the innocence. In the moment he lost his compatibily (via flower dying) then he also dies.

[OQO]

And now I have this horrible feeling he isn't going to live through the end of the manga... Nuuu... TT__TT

(I can't even imagine him living happily ever after)

[ying_su]

And now I have this horrible feeling he isn't going to live through the end of the manga... Nuuu... TT__TT

(I can't even imagine him living happily ever after)

Sorry! I feel someway responsible...^^ *lets cry together if that finally happens*
PS. I think i'll cry now due to the hiatus, so... T_T

[OQO]

*lets cry together if that finally happens*

Finally?

You can't wait to see the "end" (not to soon!), can you? Me too

[ying_su]

You can't wait to see the "end" (not to soon!), can you? Me too

Nope, i cant wait! But at the same time, i dont want this series end never!!! 0.0 T_T
XD

[OQO]

I loved this last chapter!!! I'm so excited!

So... Kanda has hallucinations? Or else, Mugen gives him hallucinations about flowers! There must be a deep meaning! (very intriguing!! *_*)

My guess is this: the flowers rapresents persons life... the only thing I did not quite grasp is if he sees them only in the Asia branch or at the HQ as well... ? Must wait for the translation of Zuu's words!

[TitaniumChloride]

Okay, going to contribute some official stuff about Kanda that was in the novel. I've uploaded some of Timcanpi's scanlations of it here if anyone wants to read all of Kanda's story. You'd want the last three files since the first three are Allen's story.

A summary of the main points and my opinions: (in spoiler tag in case people want to read the story for the 1st time)

Description of the lotus in Kanda's room (Does anyone have a picture of it from the anime btw?)

A lotus blossom floating as if caught in a motherly embace. The lotus was placed in a special contraption that looked like a large hourglass.

Its stands were wrought with dull silver metal, and the glass inside weren't full of sand, but water. In the topmost part of the stand, a flame-like object flickered.

In his room deep within the orgnization, this was his only personal belonging.

Two petals had fallen to the bottom of the liquid.

But, just like yesterday, the lotus blossom was still fresh and in full bloom...

It had become a daily routine that when he woke up, he checked on this lotus blossom first.

Funnily enough, having the lotus wasting away is tied to Kanda's greatest wish, i.e. He kind of wants it to die.

"'What I wished for to the extent of insanity' is it? ... What you know is only the mere surface of my wish."

She wouldn't understand. Neither the meaning behind that flower rotting, nor my true wish...

I'm thinking that the lotus could be tied to the wellbeing of 'that person' since immediatly after the above quote, he thinks of them. Also, this quote would suggest that 'that person' has something to do with Akumas or maybe even a Noah.

One day, I'll be able to meet "that person" again. Until then...

(action scene)

I will continue to defeat the Akuma!

Why I don't think that the falling of petals indicates Kanda's dwindling life span (like in 'Beauty and the Beast') is because the first thing Kanda does when he gets back to the Order is to check on the lotus to check whether it's dead or not, which wouldn't really be the case if a dead lotus = dead Kanda.

He felt a touch of anxiety. He had to hurry, hurry and make sure...

The lotus blossom wilting before his eyes. (reference to an akuma's trick earlier)

It couldn't be... It couldn't be...

(Kanda barges into his room to see the still blossoming lotus)

Kanda sighed in relief.

This lotus blossom holds my wish, and shows my hope.

I must hurry and find that person while this flower is still blooming...

...and before he dies, according to his infamous line in the Ghost of Martel arc.

Besides a lot of info relating to the lotus, there's also this one bit about his tattoo.

(after inspecting a serious wound that already closed up)

Kanda quietly looked at the Sanskrit character engraved into the left side of his chest.

I guess my body is still responding to it.

The doctor wrapped a bandage across his chest.

But I don't know for how long I will have it.

I must hurry up and find that person...

Besides the mystery of the tattoo, the lotus and 'that person', I've confirmed from the Gray Ark fanbook that Mugen -which is also pronounced the same way as 夢幻, the japanese word for 'dreams', 'fantasy' and 'visions'- absorbs Kanda's lifeforce to power itself whenever he uses the 'taboo' Third Illusion.

I find that to be odd since it's an Equipment type Innocence and I don't think they're supposed to do that. Mugen's lifeshortening factor even has it's own little corner of the profile titled "Soul sucking demon blade?":

Mugen's true value is shown when the Third Illusion absorbs the life of it's compatible user. Though it has that kind of significance, it can be said that there's no one other than the regeneration-abled Kanda who can handle it.

The Third Illusion brings about enormous exhaustion. If it were an average Exorcist, they wouldn't be able to endure even releasing the taboo technique.

Even if it's broken, it'll still absorb lifeforce and reconstruct. To the extent of being terrible, it's an Innocence that exhibits tenacity towards life.

Basically it's confirmed that his Innocence doesn't have anything to do with his regeneration abilities.

@_@ I'd better stop now.

[ying_su]

You are right.

The flower, the tattoo and that person have another complete different meaning...

The simplest thing i can think now is the flower meassure the lifespan of 'that person' and the tatto is the nexus with his innocence that was artificially conected to him, maybe nine years ago, during the 'creation'.
Kanda must find that person before that person death and he leave to be compatible (dont know, but maybe if he's not compatible anymore he'll die?)
Edit: Kanda sees a lot of flowers...i changed my mind about that idea... Maybe is something as simple as a curse?

[TitaniumChloride]

Yes, it's possible that the illusion of lotuses he's been seeing is some sort of curse as well. He's had it from when he was pretty young and he was already in China at the time. Even then, he was not with 'that person' so it's possible that he's been cursed by them too...

However, there's no way of knowing what those illusions really mean at the moment. And can we say that the illusion isn't a part of the experiment?

[OQO]

Lotus flowers, in buddhism, are simbol for the "forgotten dead" which in japanese are called muenbotoke (dead without family, connection; lost ones, forgotten)...

-> I think that Mugen is showing Kanda how many lost souls there are.

This interpretation would give meaning to his (Kanda's) hope to see the flower(s) disappear and would also explain because he sees a lot of them, now.
The source of the illusion must be Mugen! Zuu created it and he seems to know the meaning of the event (must be a very important one to keep it secret)!
If this is really the point, I can't tell (no one knows, just Hoshino )... but I'm quite sure this thing (Kanda seeing the flowers) is a big thing! and Mugen is quite a special innocence... (I don't give up on my first idea: Kanda is the heart!)

P.S. But there's one thing I don't get at all: why in the novel and in the anime the lotus flower is kept in an hourglass? (in the manga never appeared!)

I quote myself, but with a correction regarding "that person": I think "taht person", he or she, is the real bearer of Mugen! And consequently the Heart of innocence!
Kanda can't be the real one, because other way there wouldn't have been any reason to experiment on him, or do whatever it was done to him. And probably his (Kanda's) life is connected to Mugen, as it was also shown! So, he must remain alive just until he finds the real compatible!

This would make sense, wouldn't it?

[ying_su]

I quote myself, but with a correction regarding "that person": I think "taht person", he or she, is the real bearer of Mugen! And consequently the Heart of innocence!

That makes sense!! XD
The Earl said the Heart could be hide somewhere and so, another exorcist could be in his place.
But: Do you think the order knows about the heart? Komui said the heart innocence is unknown, they even know who is his host!
But: If Kanda is there in the place of the heart (he was created and all that) then, his mugen directly is not a real innocence but the 'ilussion' of the real one, that in your theory is the heart.

[OQO]

1- But: Do you think the order knows about the heart? Komui said the heart innocence is unknown, they even know who is his host!

2- But: If Kanda is there in the place of the heart (he was created and all that) then, his mugen directly is not a real innocence but the 'ilussion' of the real one, that in your theory is the heart.

1- I think they are sincere, especially Komui: no one knows about the heart. But it seems, to me at last, that Zuu knows the meaning of the hallucination Kanda is having, or he has a suspect... Otherwise he wouldn't have asked Kanda to keep the secret, would he? There must be a reason! A good one!!

2- Reading once again the page you linked made me realise that the heart of innocence has got a "conscience" for itself: it is tricky, it is hiding, it is awakened! The bearer could be unaware of it all (having it, hiding it ecc..)!
Mugen (if it is really) is the heart (not just an illusion) and is hiding in an artificial (poor Kanda) exorcist... in someway, like the innocence which kept the doll called Lala moving (First mission! Allen&Kanda of all! Hint from Hoshino!?). She, thanks to the innocence, was alive, had feelings, and was immortal... reminds me of Kanda!
It is the real bearer, who's unknown. The part of the order aware of the situation knows only that Kanda is not "that person" (that's obvious ).

-> Kanda's not the heart (the bearer created by central). That person is not the heart (the bearer chosen by God!). Mugen is could be the heart!

I hope I've been clear (doubts creaping in!)

I'd like to add something else: Kanda must be artificial! Otherwise he would have died like all the others! Becoming a fallen one. As they said, it is impossible to force an innocence in a human who's not compatible: Kanda is not, then he can't be a human!
We just have to find out what happened exactly: what caused the tragedy and what's really implied... (I can't wait!!!!!!!!!! )

---

That's my new, little hope, for Kanda's sake: I hope that "that person" doesn't truly exist!
I'll explain: I hope that Kanda is going to be, after all, the real bearer chosen by God for the heart of the innocence(hopefully Mugen). Would be a big surprise for him (and everybody else!).

This way he's not gonna die or disappear... Would be nice!



...I've got this weird impression that I've dreamed much to far from the truth!!

[ying_su]

I'm afraid, but i think Kanda's just Kanda. Not the heart, ya know? A great cool 2dary character in this story. But i hope we'll reach the heart across your theory someway, although...well, the most i think on it, the most i think it's a risky theory:

I like the idea of 'that person' being the real heart and Kanda the used piece in this game. But, since the order really dont know about the heart i feel like this theory wont last to much.

Two possibilities: The 'flower ilussion' is a bug in the order creation (i mean, Kanda) and Zhu wanted to save Kanda from he being deleted by the order as a broken toy keeping it in secret. Or, the 'flower ilussion' actually means something deeper that again Zhu wanted to keep in secret.
Of course i like the second more^^ and, again, it fits the 'that person is the heart' theory.

[OQO]

Hehe yep, probably my theory is to much even for Hoshino' s fantasy!

But, to tell the truth, I didn't have the impression that the flower could be dangerous for Kanda in your way of thinking, like you said "a bug". As I already explained in my theory, I think the flower is more meaning full as it seems. I don't think Kanda is going to "lose his job as exorcist" if it is revealed... exactly the opposite! I think that Zuu tried to protect him from the Order by keeping the illusion a secret.

But I repeat: It's my impression! Not even I'm quite sure about this... I am just guessing (and hoping! if you didn't notice, I like Kanda a huge little bit!)...

[ying_su]

Hehehe~
Hoshino's fantasy^^ XD

I'm agree with you, (as i said in the previous) the meaning of that flower is deeper that that theory^^ and also, Zhu was trying to protect him keeping the flower in secret.

And there we have:
-It's the flower dangerous for kanda?
Till this moment i just thought it was. But you are right, it can be preciselly the oposite. Right now, we dont have a hint of this matter...
-Was Zhu protecting Kanda from the order or from something else?
Unclear yet too. In the 'bug theory' yes, it was to protect him from the order. But, there are too many open lines in Kanda past to be able to reject the fact Zhu was probably protecting him from others threats.

Now i have this question:
We only have seen Zhu one time, as an old old man.
What kind of character is him?
Of course he must be (or had been) very intellingent. But, how much responsibilities there were in the past in his hands? How much he knows or how much can he keep in secret to the order? <---That's something to take into account if Kanda is related someway with the heart. That it can actually be a secret even for the order!!