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Thread: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Oh~ let see: he is alive because he has the innocence. In the moment he lost his compatibily (via flower dying) then he also dies.
    Last edited by ying_su; April 22, 2009 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Misspelling


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

  2. #32
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member OQO's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    And now I have this horrible feeling he isn't going to live through the end of the manga... Nuuu... TT__TT

    (I can't even imagine him living happily ever after)
    Last edited by OQO; April 22, 2009 at 03:02 PM.

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Quote:
    And now I have this horrible feeling he isn't going to live through the end of the manga... Nuuu... TT__TT

    (I can't even imagine him living happily ever after)
    Sorry! I feel someway responsible...^^ *lets cry together if that finally happens*
    PS. I think i'll cry now due to the hiatus, so... T_T


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

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  5. #34
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member OQO's Avatar
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    Sweaty Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Originally Posted by ying_su View Post
    *lets cry together if that finally happens*
    Finally?

    You can't wait to see the "end" (not to soon!), can you? Me too

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  6. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Quote:
    You can't wait to see the "end" (not to soon!), can you? Me too
    Nope, i cant wait! But at the same time, i dont want this series end never!!! 0.0 T_T
    XD


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

  7. #36
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member OQO's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    I loved this last chapter!!! I'm so excited!

    So... Kanda has hallucinations? Or else, Mugen gives him hallucinations about flowers! There must be a deep meaning! (very intriguing!! *_*)

    My guess is this: the flowers rapresents persons life... the only thing I did not quite grasp is if he sees them only in the Asia branch or at the HQ as well... ? Must wait for the translation of Zuu's words!

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  8. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member TitaniumChloride's Avatar
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    Post Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Okay, going to contribute some official stuff about Kanda that was in the novel. I've uploaded some of Timcanpi's scanlations of it here if anyone wants to read all of Kanda's story. You'd want the last three files since the first three are Allen's story.

    A summary of the main points and my opinions: (in spoiler tag in case people want to read the story for the 1st time)
    Spoiler show


    Besides the mystery of the tattoo, the lotus and 'that person', I've confirmed from the Gray Ark fanbook that Mugen -which is also pronounced the same way as 夢幻, the japanese word for 'dreams', 'fantasy' and 'visions'- absorbs Kanda's lifeforce to power itself whenever he uses the 'taboo' Third Illusion.

    I find that to be odd since it's an Equipment type Innocence and I don't think they're supposed to do that. Mugen's lifeshortening factor even has it's own little corner of the profile titled "Soul sucking demon blade?":
    Quote Quote:
    Mugen's true value is shown when the Third Illusion absorbs the life of it's compatible user. Though it has that kind of significance, it can be said that there's no one other than the regeneration-abled Kanda who can handle it.

    The Third Illusion brings about enormous exhaustion. If it were an average Exorcist, they wouldn't be able to endure even releasing the taboo technique.

    Even if it's broken, it'll still absorb lifeforce and reconstruct. To the extent of being terrible, it's an Innocence that exhibits tenacity towards life.
    Basically it's confirmed that his Innocence doesn't have anything to do with his regeneration abilities.

    @_@ I'd better stop now.
    Last edited by TitaniumChloride; April 24, 2009 at 09:03 PM.

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  10. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    You are right.

    The flower, the tattoo and that person have another complete different meaning...

    The simplest thing i can think now is the flower meassure the lifespan of 'that person' and the tatto is the nexus with his innocence that was artificially conected to him, maybe nine years ago, during the 'creation'.
    Kanda must find that person before that person death and he leave to be compatible (dont know, but maybe if he's not compatible anymore he'll die?)
    Edit: Kanda sees a lot of flowers...i changed my mind about that idea... Maybe is something as simple as a curse?
    Last edited by ying_su; April 24, 2009 at 10:08 AM.


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

  11. #39
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member TitaniumChloride's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Yes, it's possible that the illusion of lotuses he's been seeing is some sort of curse as well. He's had it from when he was pretty young and he was already in China at the time. Even then, he was not with 'that person' so it's possible that he's been cursed by them too...

    However, there's no way of knowing what those illusions really mean at the moment. And can we say that the illusion isn't a part of the experiment?

  12. #40
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Quote:
    Lotus flowers, in buddhism, are simbol for the "forgotten dead" which in japanese are called muenbotoke (dead without family, connection; lost ones, forgotten)...

    -> I think that Mugen is showing Kanda how many lost souls there are.

    This interpretation would give meaning to his (Kanda's) hope to see the flower(s) disappear and would also explain because he sees a lot of them, now.
    The source of the illusion must be Mugen! Zuu created it and he seems to know the meaning of the event (must be a very important one to keep it secret)!
    If this is really the point, I can't tell (no one knows, just Hoshino )... but I'm quite sure this thing (Kanda seeing the flowers) is a big thing! and Mugen is quite a special innocence... (I don't give up on my first idea: Kanda is the heart!)

    P.S. But there's one thing I don't get at all: why in the novel and in the anime the lotus flower is kept in an hourglass? (in the manga never appeared!)
    I quote myself, but with a correction regarding "that person": I think "taht person", he or she, is the real bearer of Mugen! And consequently the Heart of innocence!
    Kanda can't be the real one, because other way there wouldn't have been any reason to experiment on him, or do whatever it was done to him. And probably his (Kanda's) life is connected to Mugen, as it was also shown! So, he must remain alive just until he finds the real compatible!

    This would make sense, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by OQO; April 27, 2009 at 08:53 AM.

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  13. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Quote:
    I quote myself, but with a correction regarding "that person": I think "taht person", he or she, is the real bearer of Mugen! And consequently the Heart of innocence!
    That makes sense!! XD
    The Earl said the Heart could be hide somewhere and so, another exorcist could be in his place.
    But: Do you think the order knows about the heart? Komui said the heart innocence is unknown, they even know who is his host!
    But: If Kanda is there in the place of the heart (he was created and all that) then, his mugen directly is not a real innocence but the 'ilussion' of the real one, that in your theory is the heart.
    Last edited by ying_su; April 27, 2009 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Adding link


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

  14. #42
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member OQO's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Quote Originally Posted by ying_su View Post
    1- But: Do you think the order knows about the heart? Komui said the heart innocence is unknown, they even know who is his host!

    2- But: If Kanda is there in the place of the heart (he was created and all that) then, his mugen directly is not a real innocence but the 'ilussion' of the real one, that in your theory is the heart.
    1- I think they are sincere, especially Komui: no one knows about the heart. But it seems, to me at last, that Zuu knows the meaning of the hallucination Kanda is having, or he has a suspect... Otherwise he wouldn't have asked Kanda to keep the secret, would he? There must be a reason! A good one!!

    2- Reading once again the page you linked made me realise that the heart of innocence has got a "conscience" for itself: it is tricky, it is hiding, it is awakened! The bearer could be unaware of it all (having it, hiding it ecc..)!
    Mugen (if it is really) is the heart (not just an illusion) and is hiding in an artificial (poor Kanda) exorcist... in someway, like the innocence which kept the doll called Lala moving (First mission! Allen&Kanda of all! Hint from Hoshino!?). She, thanks to the innocence, was alive, had feelings, and was immortal... reminds me of Kanda!
    It is the real bearer, who's unknown. The part of the order aware of the situation knows only that Kanda is not "that person" (that's obvious ).

    -> Kanda's not the heart (the bearer created by central). That person is not the heart (the bearer chosen by God!). Mugen is could be the heart!

    I hope I've been clear (doubts creaping in!)

    I'd like to add something else: Kanda must be artificial! Otherwise he would have died like all the others! Becoming a fallen one. As they said, it is impossible to force an innocence in a human who's not compatible: Kanda is not, then he can't be a human!
    We just have to find out what happened exactly: what caused the tragedy and what's really implied... (I can't wait!!!!!!!!!! )


    That's my new, little hope, for Kanda's sake: I hope that "that person" doesn't truly exist!
    I'll explain: I hope that Kanda is going to be, after all, the real bearer chosen by God for the heart of the innocence(hopefully Mugen). Would be a big surprise for him (and everybody else!).

    This way he's not gonna die or disappear... Would be nice!



    ...I've got this weird impression that I've dreamed much to far from the truth!!
    Last edited by OQO; April 27, 2009 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  15. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    I'm afraid, but i think Kanda's just Kanda. Not the heart, ya know? A great cool 2dary character in this story. But i hope we'll reach the heart across your theory someway, although...well, the most i think on it, the most i think it's a risky theory:

    I like the idea of 'that person' being the real heart and Kanda the used piece in this game. But, since the order really dont know about the heart i feel like this theory wont last to much.

    Two possibilities: The 'flower ilussion' is a bug in the order creation (i mean, Kanda) and Zhu wanted to save Kanda from he being deleted by the order as a broken toy keeping it in secret. Or, the 'flower ilussion' actually means something deeper that again Zhu wanted to keep in secret.
    Of course i like the second more^^ and, again, it fits the 'that person is the heart' theory.


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

  16. #44
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member OQO's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Hehe yep, probably my theory is to much even for Hoshino' s fantasy!

    But, to tell the truth, I didn't have the impression that the flower could be dangerous for Kanda in your way of thinking, like you said "a bug". As I already explained in my theory, I think the flower is more meaning full as it seems. I don't think Kanda is going to "lose his job as exorcist" if it is revealed... exactly the opposite! I think that Zuu tried to protect him from the Order by keeping the illusion a secret.

    But I repeat: It's my impression! Not even I'm quite sure about this... I am just guessing (and hoping! if you didn't notice, I like Kanda a huge little bit!)...
    Last edited by OQO; April 28, 2009 at 07:28 AM.

    "Woooohooo! What a wonderful SIMMETRIA!!" ... Death the Kid(do)

  17. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to solve Kanda's puzzle...

    Hehehe~
    Hoshino's fantasy^^ XD

    I'm agree with you, (as i said in the previous) the meaning of that flower is deeper that that theory^^ and also, Zhu was trying to protect him keeping the flower in secret.

    And there we have:
    -It's the flower dangerous for kanda?
    Till this moment i just thought it was. But you are right, it can be preciselly the oposite. Right now, we dont have a hint of this matter...
    -Was Zhu protecting Kanda from the order or from something else?
    Unclear yet too. In the 'bug theory' yes, it was to protect him from the order. But, there are too many open lines in Kanda past to be able to reject the fact Zhu was probably protecting him from others threats.

    Now i have this question:
    We only have seen Zhu one time, as an old old man.
    What kind of character is him?
    Of course he must be (or had been) very intellingent. But, how much responsibilities there were in the past in his hands? How much he knows or how much can he keep in secret to the order? <---That's something to take into account if Kanda is related someway with the heart. That it can actually be a secret even for the order!!


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

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