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Thread: Otaku Cafe Hangout

  1. #76
    RAW Providers 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Finestela's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Quote Originally Posted by eni View Post
    Demographics are blurry in many cases already. Look at a bunch of GFantasy series which are supposed to be shounen but attract girls just as well (or even more? xD) due to the bishie character design and clear shounen-ai behavior. DGM and Reborn certainly can thank their female fanbase just as much to hold their sellings up this high...
    G-Fantasy is actually listed shoujo on certain sites... Don't ask me why though! XDDDD
    Recomic's database

    Asuka and Blade are both "kinda" neutral as well, though Asuka still skews toward female readers while Blade is more male.

  2. #77
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Everybody seems to be listing Zero Sum as josei, for no apparent reason o_O

  3. #78
    MH's Socialworker 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member eni's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Finestela View Post
    G-Fantasy is actually listed shoujo on certain sites... Don't ask me why though! XDDDD
    Recomic's database
    Yes, it seems they can't decide themselves >.>

    We go with 'shounen' here at MH since this is/was (originally?) the official demographic. I wouldn't be surprised if they stepped away from this towards a gender neutral marketing, though. A quick check at Square Enix doesn't show something but I have no time to look through the webpages *scratches head* ... do you see where they hide their magazine info? >.>

    *flips through GFantasy's manga list*

    Oh, I see some cute series there without any scans. What a shame...

    Quote Originally Posted by Finestela View Post
    Asuka and Blade are both "kinda" neutral as well, though Asuka still skews toward female readers while Blade is more male.
    Asuka is soooo girlie to me. When someone told me that it's supposed to be neutral, I flipped through my issues but couldn't find anything that remotely looks like designed for boys >.>;

    I don't know about Blade. A magazine that gave us a little trouble was Petit Comics which is listed as either shoujo or josei, depending on your source. After some research we also went with josei like MangaUpdates and in contradiction to many other (western) websites which lists is as shoujo nonetheless. Comipedia being one of them, which is weird since they're usually reliable. It's not easy and even translators don't always agree, it seems >.<

    Personally, I go away with the demographics and only categorize in mature and teenie stuff for my private folders. It's much easier to maintain in the long run

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama View Post
    Everybody seems to be listing Zero Sum as josei, for no apparent reason o_O
    The magazine itself says it's josei. It apparently was shoujo at first but got a label change :3

    I... move this discussion to the Otaku Hangout <.<;;
    //edit... done.
    Last edited by eni; June 04, 2009 at 02:30 AM.

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  4. #79
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Quote Originally Posted by eni View Post

    Personally, I go away with the demographics and only categorize in mature and teenie stuff for my private folders. It's much easier to maintain in the long run


    The magazine itself says it's josei. It apparently was shoujo at first but got a label change :3

    I... move this discussion to the Otaku Hangout <.<;;
    //edit... done.
    It's fairly easy to differentiate shonen from seinen; one has furigana, the other not. That at least applies to current series. I could be wrong about that, but it's my usual way if knowing the demographic is somehow relevant. It also helps that so many magazines work shonen into the title. I didn't realize Zero Sum considered themselves josei. I guess if your intended for teen girls but most of your readers are 18 or older, that may be the best designation. The one remaining mystery is Nana. Nobody seems to agree on weather it is shojo or josei.

  5. #80
    MH's Socialworker 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member eni's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama View Post
    It's fairly easy to differentiate shonen from seinen; one has furigana, the other not.
    Not necessary. There are seinen with furigana as well. Older ones too (e.g. Futari Ecchi which started in 1997). It's a main indicator but not a 100% one :/

    The other way around (furigana-less shounen) is probably right. At least, I can't think spontaneous on any shounen with straight kanji and it would be a little unlucky for the target audience regarding their reading ability. I wouldn't rule it out that a mature shounen would be printed without or with very limited furigana, though. Maybe Finestela knows a little better about this topic, I rarely check out raws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama View Post
    The one remaining mystery is Nana. Nobody seems to agree on weather it is shojo or josei.
    There's no mystery (and I don't get why it's a debate anyways). Nana is published in Cookie which is a shoujo magazine in any way you look at it - but first and foremost because it's officially labeled as such.
    Last edited by eni; June 04, 2009 at 03:02 AM.

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  6. #81
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk v.2

    Quote Originally Posted by eni View Post
    Not necessary. There are seinen with furigana as well. Older ones too (e.g. Futari Ecchi which started in 1997). It's a main indicator but not a 100% one :/

    The other way around (furigana-less shounen) is probably right. At least, I can't think spontaneous on any shounen with straight kanji and it would be a little unlucky for the target audience regarding their reading ability. I wouldn't rule it out that a mature shounen would be printed without or with very limited furigana, though. Maybe Finestela knows a little better about this topic, I rarely check out raws.


    There's no mystery (and I don't get why it's a debate anyways). Nana is published in Cookie which is a shoujo magazine in any way you look at it - but first and foremost because it's officially labeled as such.
    There are a few good examples of the "furigana test" not working. Champion Red, whatever demographic they call themselves, has very mature content but retain furigana. Steel Ball Run is in Ultra Jump, most definitely seinen, but also still has furigana.

    It's nice seeing some one else call Nana a shojo. Content isn't always a good indication of demographic. Shojo with mature content is quite common.

  7. #82
    RAW Providers 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Finestela's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    Yeah, Furigana test is a bit useless in a lot of cases... I mean the Degeki mags don't have furigana while Dragon Age does for their kanji, but there are some series I would NOT consider shounen in Dragon Age by any standard, while quite a few in Degeki series are pretty generic and friendly stuff

    The "only" old-fashion publisher I see these days is Hakusensha, where their Shoujo/Josei/Seinen magazine are fairly clear in terms of demographics. (Well... Melody might be an exception, with blurred line between Shoujo and Josei)

    And what about Yuri-hime and Comic Hi?
    Last edited by Finestela; June 04, 2009 at 05:34 AM.

  8. #83
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Imitorar's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    Steel Ball Run doesn't count, it's just JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 7, and JoJo is/was shonen. But Araki wanted a lighter workload, so he decided to switch to a monthly magazine. And because JoJo is too gory to be shonen by modern standards (it started in 1987), Shueisha put him in Ultra Jump instead of Monthly Jump. But the content in Steel Ball Run isn't much gorier than the content in any other Part of JoJo, so I guess that Araki hasn't changed his method at all, including his inclusion of furigana. Steel Ball Run is a shonen in a seinen magazine, basically.
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  9. #84
    RAW Providers 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Finestela's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    And Ninku and Bastard? Bastard had always been a bit more on the sexy side, but Ninku should still fit in the current shounen genre just fine

    Yet, they're both in UJ right now

  10. #85
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Imitorar's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    Yeah, a lot of the big 80's and 90's Jump manga-ka seem to have series' going in seinen magazines, usually spin-offs of their popular Golden Age series. There's Ninku 2, Kinnikuman Nisei (okay, so it's in a porn magazine), Fist of the Blue Sky, Saint Seiya Next Dimension (which I think is in Shonen Champion, so that sort of defeats my point), Captain Tsubasa's sequels, Sakigake!! Otokojuku - Seishun yo, Taishi no Dake, etc. I guess that they're trying to target men in their 20's and 30's, because they're the ones who read the original series' as kids, and would therefore be interested in sequels. So they make them seinen more as a way of attracting readers than because of the content, I guess.
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  11. #86
    RAW Providers 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Finestela's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    It just feels like nowadays, the "Shonen" genre is waaaay too conservative, especially for the big three. I mean people are actually complaining ToLoveRu being too ecchi, when we had DNA2 and Shadow Lady back in the days... Or that Inumaru exposes too much body parts, when PonPon-zaka Drama Club, Hentai Kamen, and various Tokuhiro Masaya gags/comedy were the main stuff on WSJ.

    Those were the days long gone now... sigh...

  12. #87
    MH's Socialworker 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member eni's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    DNA² I really loved that one.

    Bastard!! ... still one of my favorites.

    Though, technically, if it runs in a seinen mag, it's a seinen. Even if the main series was/is shounen. As soon as it (or parts) get moved to a seinen mag, it's to be considered as such. Bastard is a good example for a shounen that was moved to seinen and the JoJo spin-off/arc is an example on a mixed demographic series :3

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  13. #88
    Horosho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    Quote Originally Posted by Imitorar View Post
    I guess that they're trying to target men in their 20's and 30's, because they're the ones who read the original series' as kids, and would therefore be interested in sequels. So they make them seinen more as a way of attracting readers than because of the content, I guess.
    Usually when you see an older series from a shonen magazine to a seinen (JoJo's and Captain Tsubasa for example), it's because their not gaining new readers but still maintain enough of their old audience. In Steel Ball Run and Beshari Gurashi's case I have a feeling that Shueisha knew they were destined for Ultra and Young Jump, but due to how famous the mangaka were previewed them in Weekly Jump.

  14. #89
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Imitorar's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama View Post
    Usually when you see an older series from a shonen magazine to a seinen (JoJo's and Captain Tsubasa for example), it's because their not gaining new readers but still maintain enough of their old audience. In Steel Ball Run and Beshari Gurashi's case I have a feeling that Shueisha knew they were destined for Ultra and Young Jump, but due to how famous the mangaka were previewed them in Weekly Jump.
    That would make sense. I've always been bothered by the fact that Steel Ball Run's numbering is off, with four volumes being weekly chapters and the rest being monthly chapters. I wish they'd just have put it in Ultra Jump as soon as Stone Ocean ended, so that things would be neater, but if they were trying to showcase it to the Jump audience, that would make sense.
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  15. #90
    RAW Providers 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Finestela's Avatar
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    Re: Otaku Cafe Hangout

    It was also due to the fact that, early on, Steel Ball Run was meant to be a clean slate... It wasn't until after the move, that it's labeled as part of the JoJo series.

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