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At yonkou level.
At silver medalist level.
At supernovae level.
At rookie level.
At another level.
As Akainu said, we should discuss about the Vice-Admirals in a defined topic.
Can a moderator hide the poll before answering ?
Moderator message by: YabeThe results of this poll are hidden until there's further request from the thread starter.
Moderator message by: ImitorarThe results of the poll are now publicized, again by request from the thread starter.
From what we know of the V-A, by their position, their are just under the Admiral's position, by the name of their rank, their are the ones supposed to take an Admiral position if one of the Admirals had to fall/retire (#).
We do not know how many Vice-Admirals there are in the Marine but from what we have seen of the East Blue, they were no V-A in charge of a town. And Logue Town - which is for me the most important one of East Blue - was " just " guarded by a Colonel in terms of rank.
So, I think there is no V-A who are in charge of a land in East Blue and by the same way in West/South/North Blue.
Thus, the V-A come only in the 4 seas when it is necessary as Garp did with Colonel Morgan. Moreover, if Garp - THE hero of the marine - came himself in East Blue to take Colonel Morgan, I think they were not a lot of V-A available for the job ; he must have been chosen because he was the one (only one ?) knowing a lot of East Blue as he had family there.
From the number of V-A that have been revealed, we know they were at least 6-7 at the Ohara Buster Call time (the 5 of the Buster Call, Haguar D. Sauro and Garp who I think was already a V-A at this time).
From what we have seen of active V-A, there are Garp, John Giant,Tsuru, Komil, and the 5 ones of the Enies Lobby Buster Call, and maybe this one.
I think we can suppose that their are a V-A for each marine camp : what I mean by marine camp is a G- base of the marine. For example, Komil is the V-A responsible of the G-2 base.
So, they are at least 9 active V-A at the actual time and I think a bit more because of the number of G-x bases. But there are not too many V-A because V-A is a super important rank (#). Another proof would be that 2 of the 5 V-A shown in the past became Admirals : this ratio (1/3 or 2/7, it depends if you count Garp or not) is inclined to prove that there are not too much V-A in the marine. Others would be that the V-A in charge of the transport of Boa Hancock was an already known one Momonga, a V-A responsible for Ace transport to MHQ is already known : it is Onigumo. So, not a lot V-A in the marine because a V-A rank is an elite rank.
From what we have seen of the V-A fighting, the V-A Kuzan (future Ao Kiji) was a monster, V-A Haguar D. Sauro was a monster too, V-A Garp is a monster, V-A Momonga beat without trouble and quickly a Sea King of the Calm Belt and strained Boa Hancock's powers. We have not seen others abilities of a V-A if we do not count the commandment.
Moreover, Ivankov who has been revealed to be a monster too has acknowledged the strenght of the V-A here.
And to finish I quote myself : one I suppose to be an V-A is leading the team that has been sent by the MHQ to capture Luffy after they learnt he invaded ID. So, he is thought to be able to capture Luffy whereas they know they had already underestimated Luffy who beat 2 Shichis and Lucci. So, they really think this guy can beat him. And if he is not a V-A, it would mean a less rank would be able to beat Luffy, so the V-A in all the cases are supposed to be better than supernovae (plus Luffy is known by the Marine to be one of the best supernovae and the grandson of Garp).
As a conclusion, I would say that a lot of people are underestimating the V-A and that they are by definition and by facts a part of the elite force of the Marine (with the Admirals).
So, the V-A are globally better than supernovae and must be at the level of silver medalists (the captain pirates under the Yonkou).
Last edited by Imitorar; June 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM.
I don't think rank = strength
Mihawk and Shanks are about the same, but one is Shichi and one is Yonkou
There are ppl/merman/etc of different levels among ranks
and what's a silver medalist? i don't remember, can u give one example of who is one?
And buster call summons 5 VA's, but in the Luffy vs Lucci battle the badass guy was still Lucci. Garp wasn't there tho, i'm not sure how strong he is, but there are just ppl who are more badass than others
so according to the Luffy vs Lucci fight Lucci should be at Supernova level right? The VA's didn't seem like all that next to him.
look how one of the VA's's talking about how Lucci is freakin badass
Last edited by Roarchu; May 03, 2009 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
But I think, at a certain level, experience/missions are not enough to be promoted.
For me, to be promoted to V-A, the position just under Admiral, you need to be really strong because you are supposed to be the ones that will cover for Admirals.
And I think everybody will agree that to be promoted to Admiral, you need to be the stronger of the V-A and of course, you already have experience/missions but it seems normal as you were already a V-A.
So, I just think it works in the same manner to be promoted to V-A : you need to be strong and have others abilities like tactic, experience because you join the " school ", the stock for Admirals : the next Admiral must be an ex-V-A. It means the V-A are the elites of the marine that are supposed to complete the Admirals. So, the V-A gather strenght, experience, missions : there are the best of the non Admirals marines.
And we do not really know if Mihawks is as strong as Shanks.
It is why you are supposed to be strong globally. Tsuru seems to be the only one V-A who do not look strong : it is because she is only working at Mariejoa : she does not move to fight, to travel, to do missions, she only gives orders. This seems to be the only exception to the V-A, the only one who is not posted on MHQ as the others.
Last edited by Lord Rayleigh; May 03, 2009 at 11:22 AM.
VAs need to be strong since they will succeed the admirals, who are the marines strongest fighters, the elite force.
Its more then likely that they're always three possible Admiral replacements among the VA ranks. Its extremely unlikely that all VA's can be Admirals, meaning not all are beasts. Case and Point Jaguar getting owned by Future Admiral Aokijii.
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; May 03, 2009 at 02:09 PM.
he got owned cuz he was trying to save robin. we dont know how strong he really was, but aokiji was stronger than him. but hes an exeption...
Well I voted supernova lvl, because if they're just below admirals most be super strong, but there are VA and VA, if Lelouch was a marine, sure he would be promoted to VA just because he can beat an numerous group just with 5 random people.
PS:I've got an Idea, maybe the 3 admirals are almost invincible cause the counter of the logia isa logia of other admiral, like akainu logia > kizaru logia> aokiji > akainu!
It makes sense, so just haki users can beat them!
I still don't see why we should assume that all VA's can go on to be admirals. Some are on Garp level and some aren't. Some are uber strong and could wipe out Luffy+Crew and some can't.
Just read Nico Robin's past again. Saul was so awesome.
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; May 03, 2009 at 04:04 PM.
For me, the VA at the supernovae level is totally nonsense. A supernovae is just a pirate that has more than a 100 millions bounty and has never been in the New World. Luffy was already a supernovae after the Alabasta Arc, without his gears.
And even in the last chapters - so, with Luffy at his current level - the MHQ has decided to send only one VA with marines troops to capture Luffy whereas the MHQ know Luffy had many times been underestimated and that he had beaten 2 Shichis and Sengoku knows he is Garp's grandson and maybe Dragon'son.
Does it not proove that a VA is supposed to be better than a supernovae ?
Moreover, Lucci was already supposed to deal with ease with the 100 millions supernovae Luffy ; they know what Luffy did to him in Enies Lobby (a old arc now) and they only send one VA after Luffy in ID which is invaded for the first time of his history. It means they are sure a VA is enough to capture Luffy without problem.
The idea that a VA is strong works with the fact that some VA (like Garp) can be near Admiral level (by near, I mean able to fight with them and not be beaten in some seconds like it happened with the supernovae). It is because VA and Admirals are both the elites of the marine. It explains too why Ivankov talked about Shichis, Admirals AND VA when he was referring to the monsters that will be in MHQ. For Ivankov, the 300 millions supernovae Luffy was not enough to go in a place where the invited people were at this level.
Ivankov only knew from what he has seen in newpapers and the pieces of information he got : for him a supernovae at a 300m bounty is not enough to fight people who have the strenght of VA.
Plus, from all what we have seen of the VA in action, they are terribly strong and in the story line, none of the VA has ever been beaten, which is the same with the Admirals. Why do you think Oda has never let them fight in a " death " match with the SH ? Because this is a level that Luffy would be able to reach much later.
It is why seeing the VA only at a supernovae level is for me absurd. If there were only at a supernovae level, the difficulty for the WB pirates in the on-coming war would only be to beat the Shichis and the Admiral : 9 people to beat. Would it be really impossible for the WB pirates to do that ?
For sure, it would not be as the WB pirates must be full of people better and at supernovae level.
From what I read, people often say that WB will for sure die in the WG-WB war. Does it not seem contradictory to see the VA at a supernovae level and think nevertheless that the issue of the war is obvious. People assume globally that the MHQ will be unbeatable with such a postulate : this is totally illogical.
I think people are just overestimating supernovae because Luffy is a supernovae and they thought Luffy should be able to beat a VA soon. They assimilate and generalize the supernovae to Luffy case who is unique among the pirates.
Last edited by Lord Rayleigh; May 03, 2009 at 04:23 PM.
It's really hard to compare strength in One Piece. I chose silver medalist level because I don't think the average VA can take on Shanks or WB. However, that's the average VA. I'm sure there are a few very close to admiral level (the ones who in due time are going to take admiral rank), just like Aokiji and Akainu were when they were still VA (they wouldn't have advanced if they weren't already as strong as they are). That's the problem with these kind of questions; all vice-admirals can not be equally strong.
Of course, we have the same problem with all of the options in the poll. When it comes to the Yonkou, Whitebeard is the owner of the title "The Strongest Man In The World", while Kaidou is said to have fought evenly against Moria (I still don't believe this is quite correct, but it was stated) who in his turn was beaten by Luffy, a Supernova.
Still, I like to think a mid-tier Vice Admiral can take on and beat a mid-tier supernova, while they have to let the admirals take on the yonkou if there's gonna be a one-on-one fight.
It means Admirals gather VA's level + logia power. It is the upgrade they have. It is why someone like Garp, able to deal with Rayleigh, himself able to deal with Kizaru, is not an Admiral. For example what happened with Morgan, injuring Garp because he was not concentrated at all, will never happened with the Admirals. We have already seen Kizaru being touched by attacks that he did not see : the Apoo attack would have mean the lost of Kizaru's arm if he had not been a logia user. This is the advantage of the Admiral among the category of the elite marines.
Nevertheless, I have to admit that for me, Garp is a unique one and the manga has confirmed it : he is the only one who has a unique friendship with Sengoku and is so relaxed with the superiors, the one who is with the headmaster of the MHQ. It is why he must be about to fight seriously against an admiral with his logia powers.
So, they are only some exceptions among the VA (Garp, the ex Kuzan) but with the rest of the VA, they all should be at similar levels. And from what we have seen of them, they are supposed to be fucking strong and the MHQ is totally confident in their capacities.
Last edited by Lord Rayleigh; May 03, 2009 at 04:49 PM.
ya but judging strengh in one piece is almost imposible because of the DFs and logias. 1 could easily beat 2 while 2 can easily beat 3 who can easily beat 1. so one person beating another who is considered strong doesnt make him strong as he could be beaten by a weaker person. but ofcourse this concept doesnt apply to every case
It is (Possible) VA+ Impel Down vs Luffy.
Oh and all the marines on these ships
But in all the cases, he is in charge of capturing Luffy and the marines we see at the entrance were the only ones supposed to enter ID and he was the only special guy among them.
If he was a Rear Admiral, it would be worst : a RA too would be supposed to deal without problem with supernovae. From the power of the RA, we know totally nothing.
And the MHQ sent him to deal with Luffy alone, not with the ID forces who were supposed to be not enough : it is why Sadi explained they would find their way in ID.
And the MHQ considered the ID forces were not enough to deal with this situation whereas they thought a VA would be. It prooves that by sending this guy, they did not underestimate Luffy as they were more underestimating ID forces. For them, ID alone were not enough to deal with Luffy and whereas the help of the LVL 5.5, ID would have been really enough. But they could not have guessed that a LVL 5.5 existed when they underestimated ID forces.
Last edited by Lord Rayleigh; May 03, 2009 at 05:26 PM.