Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/8/14 - 9/14/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 595 (2)

View Poll Results: Who'll emerge victorious?

Voters
160. You may not vote on this poll
  • Urahara Kisuke

    97 60.63%
  • Kyoraku Shunsui

    63 39.38%
New Reply
Page 11 of 35 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 21 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 521

Thread: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

  1. #151
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Look, you say "Saying Shunsui is stronger than Urahara is just like saying Soifon is stronger than Shunsui". We know that Shunsui is stronger than Soifon because Shunsui defeated Stark with only his shikai. Since saying "Soifon is stronger than Shunsui" is equal to saying something nigh impossible, you basically say "Shunsui can't be stronger than Urahara. It's impossible." We don't know Urahara's true strength and he may be stronger than Shunsui but considering what we've seen so far, I'd put my money on Shunsui.
    Just because Shunsui beat a higher Espada doesn't mean he's stronger. Do you think Kenpachi could beat Zommari, even though Zommari can just take control of him? Also how would Shunsui deal with Barragan's Respira?

  2. #152
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Just because Shunsui beat a higher Espada doesn't mean he's stronger. Do you think Kenpachi could beat Zommari, even though Zommari can just take control of him? Also how would Shunsui deal with Barragan's Respira?
    Yes, I think Kenpachi can beat Zommari because if you believe Nnoitra is stronger than Zommari, you also have to believe Kenpachi can beat Zommari, Kenpachi is a superior version of Nnoitra.

    Shunsui defeated primera with his shikai, Soifon failed against segunda even after using her bankai, what else do we need to prove Shunsui is stronger? I believe Shunsui can restrict Barragan's options with his shikai and it's safe to assume Barragan is no match for Shunsui's bankai. Barragan would be forced to play by Shunsui's rules, if Barragan is free to act as he wishes, what exactly does Shunsui's zanpakuto enforce on people?

    If you don't agree with the official espada ranking, if you think Soifon is possibly stronger than Shunsui, then there's no point in having a discussion because then the result of any fight is random. I can visualize any fight in my mind and make my character win.

  3. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  4. #153
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Yes, I think Kenpachi can beat Zommari because if you believe Nnoitra is stronger than Zommari, you also have to believe Kenpachi can beat Zommari, Kenpachi is a superior version of Nnoitra.

    Shunsui defeated primera with his shikai, Soifon failed against segunda even after using her bankai, what else do we need to prove Shunsui is stronger? I believe Shunsui can restrict Barragan's options with his shikai and it's safe to assume Barragan is no match for Shunsui's bankai. Barragan would be forced to play by Shunsui's rules, if Barragan is free to act as he wishes, what exactly does Shunsui's zanpakuto enforce on people?

    If you don't agree with the official espada ranking, if you think Soifon is possibly stronger than Shunsui, then there's no point in having a discussion because then the result of any fight is random. I can visualize any fight in my mind and make my character win.
    - How would Kenpachi beat Zommari's released form?

    - Shunsui never stated his shikai takes away abilities. Also there's no guarantee he will get Iro oni.

    - A > B > C logic usually doesn't work in bleach.

    -Assuming Iro oni does take away abilities, who's to say Barragan won't kill him first with Respira?

  5. #154
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - How would Kenpachi beat Zommari's released form?
    For example, Kenpachi could resist Zommari's ability with sheer reiatsu. Since Zommari was #7, his abilities had to have some restrictions. You can deduce it from Zommari's position in hierarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - Shunsui never stated his shikai takes away abilities. Also there's no guarantee he will get Iro oni.
    Being forced to play by KK's rules implies that there will be some sort of restriction in the opponent's abilities. Shunsui's ability can be lethal in other games too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - A > B > C logic usually doesn't work in bleach.
    I think it usually works, especially if A's shikai did better than C's bankai.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    -Assuming Iro oni does take away abilities, who's to say Barragan won't kill him first with Respira?
    Kubo. He made it pretty clear.

  6. #155
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Posts
    6,102
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - How would Kenpachi beat Zommari's released form?

    - Shunsui never stated his shikai takes away abilities. Also there's no guarantee he will get Iro oni.

    - A > B > C logic usually doesn't work in bleach.

    -Assuming Iro oni does take away abilities, who's to say Barragan won't kill him first with Respira?
    1- If zommari could control EVERYONE just by catching them w/ his amor, he would be the 1st espada. Hell, he would be the on in control, not aizen. Thing is, his amor is based on his reiatsu depending on his opponents reiatsu. Rukia was weaker than him,, hence he was able to control her. Byakuya was out of his league so he could only control parts of the body. Although it is not clear cut, it can be inferred such

    2. Every game has rules. If you have walked yu yu hakusho, the psychics are able to create an area where everyone follows the rules. If they don't they could lose their could and die. This situation is similar IMO

  7. #156
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Lunatic Scream's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Fight proceeds until...
    Shunsui: "My zanpakuto, Katen Kyoukotsu turns children's games into reality..."
    Urahara: "Oh? That's interesting!"
    Shunsui: "Scissors!"
    Urahara: (His released zanpakuto crossed together look like scissors... then...)
    Urahara: "Rock."
    Shunsui's eyes widen as he takes a moderate cut on his arm. The wound instantly increases, spewing a large amount of blood.
    Shunsui: "Well well... that's right, rock beats scissors... I never thought you would catch on to the rules so quickly... I guess that's what I should expect of the former captain of the science division."
    Urahara: "..."
    Shunsui: "Alright, now it's your turn."
    Urahara: "I'd really rather not, I mean this hardly seems fair!"
    Shunsui: "Well I sure as hell am not going first again..."
    Urahara: "..."
    Shunsui: "Hey, Urahara, a quick question, what's your favorite type of music?"
    Urahara: "I dunno, probably rock... oh shit..."
    Shunsui: "...Paper."

    VICTORY SHUNSUI

  8. #157
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    You cannot take into bankai in this fight b/c frankly we do not know them. Furthermore, each bankai increases the power of an individual based upon the nature of that bankai. Not all bankais increases the strength of the individual by a fixed amount. For example, itachi's bankai just offers him speed, so his strength may have only increase by a little. Byakuya's bankai on the other increases al aspects of his skills so his bankai hits the max possible strength increase.

    From what we have seen in the manga, shunsui has shown to be stronger than urahara.
    Shikai: urahara's shikai barely hut yammi in unreleased form while shunsui's shikai killed 1st espada released
    Speed: out of the 2, shunsui has only been commented on his speed. And that was by the captain commander himself
    Stamina: Urahara took a bala and kept going. Shunsui took a cero and kept going. I'll call this a tie
    Offense" shunsui wins b/c his shikai alone determines different ways he can attack his enemies. Starks was able to figure out one game, but starkks was quite brilliant. DOn't get me wrong urahara is a genius, but it does not mean that he figure out how to play EVERY game
    Defense: i'll give this to urahara b/c of his gigai trick
    Intelligence: boht have shown to be very intelligent in battle. Note, i am not talking about book smart. I meant being able to analyze their opponents. Tie

    In the end, shunsui clearly out matched urahara
    Itachi's bankai?

    I do agree in that kyoraku seems mostly superior to kisuke though. In terms of speed, strength and reiatsu I am inclined to believe kyoraku is the stronger one(the difference in reaitsu might not be that great though). In terms of underhanded techniques I think both are equally prone to using them. Urahara might be a tad more versatile in it due to his gadgets and stuff. His time in the 2 squad would give him an edge though. When comparin shikai's, I am inclined to believe shunsui is far more versatile and sneakier. Urahara's abilities are very balanced but far to straightforward. Seriously, he uses a shield and a long range GT like attack. Not bad at all how he has a great attack and defense in it though. Kyoraku on the other hand has a very sneaky ability. As long as he keeps the enemy on the dark about the rules of his games he has a great advantage. He loses a great deal of advantage as the rules are revealed, which would be a specially big deal against someone as urahara lol, but that does not mean he loses instantly.

  9. #158
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Posts
    6,102
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    got naruto on my brain haha

    I like urahara. The reason most people like him is b/c he is so chill but can get down and serious when needs to. He is also funny and unpredictable. But just b/c he created hokyoku and trained ichigo, it does not mean he is incredibly strong.

  10. #159
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    got naruto on my brain haha

    I like urahara. The reason most people like him is b/c he is so chill but can get down and serious when needs to. He is also funny and unpredictable. But just b/c he created hokyoku and trained ichigo, it does not mean he is incredibly strong.
    Just had to do this lol:
    Spoiler show

  11. #160
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    I think the reason most people think Urahara is really strong, is because of his large potential.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; November 30, 2009 at 04:25 PM.

  12. #161
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Posts
    6,102
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    I think the reason most people think Urahara is really strong, is because of his large potential.
    There has been nothing in the manga that has stated urahara's potential.
    You say urahara has a large potential, I say so does byakuya, hitsu, shunsui, uki, unohana, etc.

  13. #162
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Urahara has a unique combination of skills and talents.

    - He has the intelligence of Aizen and he's a genius with a lot of raw talent
    - Over a 100 years of experience as a captain
    - Made some invention(s) that could increase his growth rate and combat capabilities
    - Has Mayuri's skills at making inventions, but is actually a decent fighter unlike Mayuri.
    - He has a decent shikai. It isn't as great as Shunsui's with the abilities shown so far, but at least it's better than Ichigo's
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; November 30, 2009 at 11:30 PM.

  14. #163
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    18,743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Urahara has a unique combination of skills and talents.

    - He has the intelligence of Aizen and he's a genius with a lot of raw talent
    - Over a 100 years of experience as a captain
    - Made some invention(s) that could increase his growth rate and combat capabilities
    - Has Mayuri's skills at making inventions, but is actually a decent fighter unlike Mayuri.
    - He has a decent shikai. It isn't as great as Shunsui's with the abilities shown so far, but at least it's better than Ichigo's
    Saying urahara is as smart as aizen is kind of a stretch. It depends on how you define intelligence and the particular area being discussed. Urahara might be scientifically a greater mind than aizen but as an strategist aizen is always a bunch of steps ahead.

    Seeing this:
    http://mangahelpers.com/s/juni/reado...5?t=1259648027
    It is very clear aizen hid his own strength at his own convenience. Urahara was a captain over a hundred years ago but aizen has had the capacity to be one for god knows how long. On top of that, he has had SS under his control for over 100 years now.

  15. #164
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Saying urahara is as smart as aizen is kind of a stretch. It depends on how you define intelligence and the particular area being discussed. Urahara might be scientifically a greater mind than aizen but as an strategist aizen is always a bunch of steps ahead.
    Yes, this intelligence issue creates confusion. Scientifically the top 3 in intelligence are Urahara, Mayuri and Szayel. Science helps you analyze your opponents and make necessary preparations in advance, so if they know the enemy, we can say these guys start their fights 1-0 ahead.

    Then comes the strategic intelligence. It defines how good a leader you are because the leader is responsible from developing a strategy for his team. Consequently Aizen and Yamamoto are the guys who lead the others in this field.

    We also have battle intelligence. This one is very important in battle because it determines how efficiently you fight. Stark is prime example for this because he was shown to be very perceptive.

    And there is the 'genius' term. It is used for people who improve themselves much faster than others, and Hitsugaya and Gin are the prominent examples. Since Byakuya is the same age as Gin and they became captains at around the same time, it seems Byakuya has the same natural talent Gin has. Of course, being the youngest captain in history and being remarked by Shunsui to surpass him in 100 years, Hitsugaya is in a class of his own.

  16. #165
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Urahara is good at coming up with strategies and seeing through his opponent in battle.


    - Urahara seems to be on Aizen's level as far as strategies is concerned.

    He figured out Aizen was the one who experimented on the vizards. He came up with a good plan to hide the hogyoku and he would of stopped Orihime from being caught by Aizen if he didn't consider her feelings.

    Even if Aizen is better at coming up with strategies than Urahara, I don't see him being far better.

    - Urahara's battle with Yammy showed how good he was at quickly analyzing the opponent's skills in battle.

    - Hitsugaya may be a very quick learner, but I don't think he's that far above all the other genius's. Urahara and Gin may not of been captains at his age simply because there were no vacancies at the time.

    Another thing is, Kubo may have made Shunsui make that comment to foreshadow the strength of the other genius's, Urahara and Gin. I would find it kind of weird of if that was not the case. The time it would take for Hitsugaya to become stronger than Shunsui is almost the exact amount of time that passed between the Pendulum arc and present time in Bleach.

    If that's not enough, both Gin and Urahara could be vizards. Urahara may have other possible power-ups using his inventions.

    - Urahara was able to accomplish something no other shinigami except Ichigo has accomplished before, achieve bankai in 3 days. Yoruichi probably wouldn't have said this if no one else tried it and there's no reason why anyone trying to achieve bankai shouldn't have tried using this method.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; December 01, 2009 at 02:22 PM.

  17. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
New Reply
Page 11 of 35 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 21 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts