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Translations: Bleach 595 by BadKarma

View Poll Results: Who'll emerge victorious?

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  • Urahara Kisuke

    97 60.63%
  • Kyoraku Shunsui

    63 39.38%
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Thread: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by savantking View Post
    Why the heck do so many people think Urahara is so powerful... May I remind you that Urahara when he used his shikai attack with words was easily deflected by Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra only used his hands. However, Shunsui was facing a released Starrk in his Shikai. Starrk never attempted to deflect an attack with his bare hands no he always dodged them. Also Shunsui wasn't doing too bad forhimself. So....who's more powerful the guy whose shikai attacks the released Primera dodges or the guy whose shikai blast was deflected by the unreleased Cuatro espada with his bare hands?
    or the only guy to ever get the drop on Aizen? The people who go with Urahara are going on potential-he's been hinted to be incredibly strong, not in the least because he himself hinted to have experimented with ways to make shinigami stronger. He also seems to be the only person Aizen considers an Intelectual equal and he is a genious in combat. I'm not saying shunsui isnt ridiculously strong but if you notice he never actually let out an energy or otherwise attack-he only tried to cut Starrk which he obviously dodged while Urahara never tried to cut Ulquiorra. Energy attacks seem to be easier to deal with than swords hence them never being able to actually kill anyone(with the exception of luppi).

    Also, Halibell who is stronger that Ulquiorra always blocked Hitsugaya's attacks with her sword or dodged them-does that mean Hitsugaya is stronger than Urahara?
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  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by savantking View Post
    Why the heck do so many people think Urahara is so powerful... May I remind you that Urahara when he used his shikai attack with words was easily deflected by Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra only used his hands. However, Shunsui was facing a released Starrk in his Shikai. Starrk never attempted to deflect an attack with his bare hands no he always dodged them. Also Shunsui wasn't doing too bad forhimself. So....who's more powerful the guy whose shikai attacks the released Primera dodges or the guy whose shikai blast was deflected by the unreleased Cuatro espada with his bare hands?
    Shunsui only did slashs at Stark, he didn't launch aany projectiles like Urahara did..Of course he dodged them, why would Stark use his hands to block them? He's holding a gun in both of his hands, and dodging and just blocking show nothing about strength in this situation. It's two shinigami fighting two different Espada. Besides, it's more effective to dogde for Stark because by dodging it Stark was able to counter with a cero from his gun.

    That comparison can't show anything about strength, and I didn't think Shunsui was doing particularly good when Stark did Cero Metorajetta. Also, Urahara didn't fight Ulquiorra. He launched an attack at Yammi and Ulquiorra blocked it for him. Thats not a fight. I do think Urahara's stronger though.

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  4. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    On a side note I would actually love to see them go at it, rather than compare their power by how badly the pwn someone else.
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  5. #19
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    or the only guy to ever get the drop on Aizen? The people who go with Urahara are going on potential-he's been hinted to be incredibly strong, not in the least because he himself hinted to have experimented with ways to make shinigami stronger. He also seems to be the only person Aizen considers an Intelectual equal and he is a genious in combat. I'm not saying shunsui isnt ridiculously strong but if you notice he never actually let out an energy or otherwise attack-he only tried to cut Starrk which he obviously dodged while Urahara never tried to cut Ulquiorra. Energy attacks seem to be easier to deal with than swords hence them never being able to actually kill anyone(with the exception of luppi).

    Also, Halibell who is stronger that Ulquiorra always blocked Hitsugaya's attacks with her sword or dodged them-does that mean Hitsugaya is stronger than Urahara?
    Getting the drop on someone when you are wearing a complete reiatsu suppressing cloak and still failing to actually do anything doesn't seem all that good to me especially since that was Aizen from 100 years in the past. Also theres a big difference between Halibel unreleased and Stark released. Also Ulquiorra seemed pretty confident that he could take on Urahara. Urahara might be a scientific and prep master but that doesn't do too much in a battle. Especially since his opponent is considered one of the wisest in SS. I doubt he'd be fooled by a portable gigai like Yammi was. Urahara hasn't actually shown any battle feats to show that he's on the level of Ukitake or shunshui

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by savantking View Post
    Getting the drop on someone when you are wearing a complete reiatsu suppressing cloak and still failing to actually do anything doesn't seem all that good to me especially since that was Aizen from 100 years in the past. Also theres a big difference between Halibel unreleased and Stark released. Also Ulquiorra seemed pretty confident that he could take on Urahara. Urahara might be a scientific and prep master but that doesn't do too much in a battle. Especially since his opponent is considered one of the wisest in SS. I doubt he'd be fooled by a portable gigai like Yammi was. Urahara hasn't actually shown any battle feats to show that he's on the level of Ukitake or shunshui
    Well he hasnt fought much but hes the one character apart from Aizen whos never bled. Ulquiorra is the King of overestimating the power of Hollows-he also thought the espada would kill of the captains who invaded HM as well as Ichigo's group and the he will kill Ichigo and look what happened-the captains destroyed their opponents without too much effort and Ulquiorra is now dust. He might have said he didnt want to fight Urahara because he was protecting Ichigo but thats bs-he just didnt want to fight Urahara.

    EDIT: also about Shunsui being wisest....ehh dont get me wrong he's an awesome dude but wise? Is it wise to p1ss about during the only serious conflict your army has had in living memory? Somehow I think Urahara would just shut up and fight rather than waste time or play dead. Hell even his reaction to Ukitake getting impaled wasnt wise-i realise its his best buddy and hed want revenge but he shouldnt have lost sight of Starrk-the only way this is excusable is if he reasoned that WW is stronger that Starrk so hed better take him out first.
    Last edited by Mifune_Taichou; July 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM.
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  7. #21
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    Thumbs Up Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    Well he hasnt fought much but hes the one character apart from Aizen whos never bled. Ulquiorra is the King of overestimating the power of Hollows-he also thought the espada would kill of the captains who invaded HM as well as Ichigo's group and the he will kill Ichigo and look what happened-the captains destroyed their opponents without too much effort and Ulquiorra is now dust. He might have said he didnt want to fight Urahara because he was protecting Ichigo but thats bs-he just didnt want to fight Urahara.

    EDIT: also about Shunsui being wisest....ehh dont get me wrong he's an awesome dude but wise? Is it wise to p1ss about during the only serious conflict your army has had in living memory? Somehow I think Urahara would just shut up and fight rather than waste time or play dead. Hell even his reaction to Ukitake getting impaled wasnt wise-i realise its his best buddy and hed want revenge but he shouldnt have lost sight of Starrk-the only way this is excusable is if he reasoned that WW is stronger that Starrk so hed better take him out first.
    The thing is i don't think any opponent of ichigo wouldn't have been surprised to ichigo alive in kicking after he had a hole the size of a volleyball inside his chest. C'mon thats not Ulquiorra overestimating hollows. I mean that was all hollow ichigo's power anyways not shinigami power. and about shunsui attacking WW. obviously it wasn't the wisest thing but do you really think that Urahara would have done any different if it had been Yoruichi that had that happen to her??? and it did end up that WW was more powerful than Stark so it was stupid but at the same time a wise decision. also ulquiorra has never seemed like the kinda dude to run away from a fight. He must have realized that "Ichigonator"was extremely powerful after he deflected a cero oscura with a regular cero but he still didn't run away so what makes you think he'd do any different for Urahara. Honestly why fear yoruichi when she was injured hitting Yammi who when unreleased at least is much less durable and has a much weaker hierro. To me he really didn't have much to fear. He just pwned Urahara's shikai attack and unless Urahara's bankai suddenly made him more powerful than not only his ressureccion but also ulquiorra's segunda etapa he didn't really stand much of a chance. This is all why i believe that Urahara isn't as powerful combatwise as many make him out to be. If he was so powerful Ulquiorra would have never been able to take an attack from Benihime

  8. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by savantking View Post
    Getting the drop on someone when you are wearing a complete reiatsu suppressing cloak and still failing to actually do anything doesn't seem all that good to me especially since that was Aizen from 100 years in the past. Also theres a big difference between Halibel unreleased and Stark released. Also Ulquiorra seemed pretty confident that he could take on Urahara. Urahara might be a scientific and prep master but that doesn't do too much in a battle. Especially since his opponent is considered one of the wisest in SS. I doubt he'd be fooled by a portable gigai like Yammi was. Urahara hasn't actually shown any battle feats to show that he's on the level of Ukitake or shunshui
    Urahara hasn't shown anything that would make him on the level of shunsui and ukitake???.........Well...exactly what have they shown?? Because even after the Stark fight, we haven't seen much from them. They haven't shown any battle feats really, aside from Ukitake being able to redirect a cero....It has to be the other way around, because we've seen more from Urahara. And scientific prep masters do ALOT in battle. Look at Grantz and Mayuri. They can completely counter their opponents when they prep.Those kind of opponents don't have to be stronger to win their fights. Also, from what Urahara was saying, it doesn't seem like theres a way to tell the difference when he switches with those gigai's, and he seems to be able to figure out how to defend against attacks just from watching his opponent do it a few times, when Yammi was bala spamming. And seeing as how SS had to confront Urahara for help setting up FKT, I'd say Urahara is smarter than Shunsui. But he is one of the scientists in Bleach after all.....

    And Ulquiorra blocked the attack, yes. But so can Ichigo in his shikai with GT, its not that great of a feat, it makes Ulq look strong, but it doesn't create a clear distinction in strength between the two of them. And seeing as Ulquiorra really didn't fight either of them it isn't going to help either of them look stronger than the other. We haven't seen much from Shunsui either. His battle with Stark was short, and most of the time when he attacked he was taking cheapshots (which I liked). The Shunsui vs Stark helped Stark's image more than Shunsui's. I think we need to see more from Shunsui....
    Last edited by exacta; July 18, 2009 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    It seems Urahara can control the strength of his move. The wave of energy Ulquiorra broke was meant for Yammi. He was probably just toying with him.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    It seems Urahara can control the strength of his move. The wave of energy Ulquiorra broke was meant for Yammi. He was probably just toying with him.
    I think so too because the benihime blast he used against Ichigo in training looked like a nuke had gone off once it had clashe with the GT. Also lets not forget that a benihime blast cut like 2 or 3 of the tenticles off of the released 6th espada.

    Which captain apart from Zaraki have you seen damaging a released espada with just their shikai? And plz dnt start with the whiny "luppi wasnt 6th debate" because most people here can actually count. (I'm not having a go at you kio lol this is to the general audience).
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  11. #25
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    WSJ Pirate Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    urahara because he came closest to hurting the strongest soul reaper that is known and also when he does have control over how strong his benihime attacks thats why he said he only cancelled out yammis attack and what if he goes to Hueco mundo and beats the 0 espada would that make him stronger for sure because yammi is stronger than stark if you dont think so than your arguments for him being weaker because ulquoirra blocked a yammy level attack are useless

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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by juice88 View Post
    urahara because he came closest to hurting the strongest soul reaper that is known and also when he does have control over how strong his benihime attacks thats why he said he only cancelled out yammis attack and what if he goes to Hueco mundo and beats the 0 espada would that make him stronger for sure because yammi is stronger than stark if you dont think so than your arguments for him being weaker because ulquoirra blocked a yammy level attack are useless
    He seemed awfully surprised that ulquiorra was able to do it. I don't know why he would be if it was SUCH a weak attack. Why would he use a weak attack on an enemy he seemed clearly trying to the very least damage? Besides he even said the name of the attack. Which in Bleach makes the attack more powerful. All the evidence points that it was more likely his fully powered attack rather than it being weak. All that you say is based on complete conjecture. My argument has basis in previous events from Bleach. Again when he attacked Aizen he had a cloak that completely masked his reiastu and he had the element of surprise and yet he didn't really do anything. And again this is Aizen from over 100 years prior to the present so it was hardly aizen at his most powerful. if anything the one shinigami who was closest to actually hurting aizen is technically Soi Fon as she had her sword to his throat and could have easily enough killed him as Yoruichi had him trapped.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member emanresu's Avatar
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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    ^

    first of all you need to comprehend that Yammy's Cero strength was entirely a joke attack. And Urahara blasted an equal amount of energy back to Yammy.

    As of reiatsu masking thingy not working on Aizen. Blame it on Tessai. In the anime, Tessai even suggested they share the cloak to hide his reiatsu.

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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    - Urahara didn't expect the Espada to be so strong: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/195/03/

    He was probably suprised any of the Espada could block an attack of even that level.

    Urahara most likely was holding back, he was able to cut off one of the limbs of the former 6th Espada.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 18, 2009 at 07:38 PM.

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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - Urahara didn't expect the Espada to be so strong: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/195/03/

    He was probably suprised any of the Espada could block an attack of even that level.

    Urahara most likely was holding back, he was able to cut off one of the limbs of the former 6th Espada.
    What does it matter if he could cutt luppi? That guys weaker than Grimmjow who is much weaker than Ulquiorra. That doesn't prove anything. Ulquiorra is the 4th espada.


    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    ^

    first of all you need to comprehend that Yammy's Cero strength was entirely a joke attack. And Urahara blasted an equal amount of energy back to Yammy.

    As of reiatsu masking thingy not working on Aizen. Blame it on Tessai. In the anime, Tessai even suggested they share the cloak to hide his reiatsu.
    The anime isn't valid. and when he attacked Aizen he wasn't sharing it. If anything it shows how much superior Aizen is to Urahara power-wise. Urahara with the element of surprise and a tool like that cloak couldn't still do shite to aizen. Also when did he say that the attack that he used on Yammi was equal in strength to the cero when he fired it after. He used a SIMILAR attack to deflect the cero not an attack SIMILAR strength after.
    Last edited by savantking; July 18, 2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Urahara Kisuke vs Kyoraku Shunsui

    also the same attack ulquirra blocked with one hand was able to send wonderwice flying back and he is most likely stronger than stark since him arriving meant aizen was serious

    and also the argument saying that it was a weaker aizen cause it was 100 years ago makes no sense because urahara was 100 years weaker too lol and aizen still saw a need to dodge the attack he knew he couldnt block with one finger

    also if shunsui and ukitake are anywhere near the same level like yama seems to think then he wasnt able to see wonderwice attack either so that right there says urahara has quicker reflexes than him

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