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Translations: Gintama 506 (2)
I think the reason behind Hitsugayas Zanpaktou being the strongest ice based zanpaktou is because his own level is pretty high. I'm sure if Rukia for instance surpasses him in power, her zanpaktou would also surpass his zanpaktou, replacing it as the strongest ice based zanpaktou. In short you can't be at a crappy level and have the strongest <insert element> based Zanpaktou! So Hitsugayas strong Zanpaktou is IMO testament to his own power level.
I didn't contradict myself, but yes I need to elaborate on this point. IMO the power level is the first factor that needs to be looked at when deciding the winner of any match up in bleach. However it is not the only factor. That is why I very clearly stated, power levels are of more importance.Quote:
If hitsugaya is a little below Halibel in terms of power (for instance around Ulquiorras level), he could still pull off a victory because of the ability of his zanpaktou. Keep in mind, I said provided he is around her level or a little lower. This I believe is the case, Hitsugaya is a little lower than Halibel in terms of power, the difference is not significant enough to allow Halibel to break through his ice defences.
A good example of an ice based zanpaktou that wouldn't be able to hold out against Halibels water attacks is Rukias zanpaktou. Even if Rukia could freeze water attacks, theres no way she'd be able to hold out against Halibels attacks, because the strength gap is just too big.
You are correct in saying that Hitsugaya would have more trouble with Ulquiorra, because he loses the advantage he has against Halibel, but I do believe that he could beat Ulquiorra. Reason - He isn't as low on the power scaling as we were led to believe. There is just no way an Ice Zanpaktou user around Luppis, Grimjaws or Noitoras level of power could possibly face the third Espada!Quote:
The gap in strength between the 6th & 5th Espada in comparison to Ulquiorra was just too huge, and this gap even gets bigger when they are compared to Halibel. If Hitsugaya was that much weaker than Ulquiorra he would have absolutely no chance against Halibel, his Zanpaktou would bee too weak to fend off her attacks. I doubt his ability of turning water to ice, would be of any use.
Also, correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't Hitsugaya just deal with Halibels cero which was shown to be powerful enough to bust a building?? I usually skim through the bleach manga pretty quickly, so I'm not very sure about this.:P Anyway the point is, Ulquiorra himself said his attack power isn't as great as the Espada above him, considering the fact that Hitsugaya managed to deal with Halibels cero, I'm sure he'd manage against Ulquiorras too.
Well, the gap between Ulquiorra and Halibel might not be that big, but that still puts Halibel on a whole new league when compared to the Noitora, Grimjaww etc. I cant see Hitsugaya being at their level and fending off a released Halibels attacks, despite having an advantage due to his zanpaktou.Quote:
Last edited by Xanathos; May 25, 2009 at 06:16 PM.
It is hilarious how people made this thread after the seemingly defeat of halibel.
The thing is u can;t compare halibel with ulqui
Ulqui is a speed fighter, fast and can use powerful projectiles
Halibel is brute force powerful, speed okay.
The reason hitsu is doing well against halibel is b.c he figured out how to avoid her, after seeing her ability with the ice mirror. He has been keeping a far distance. Not to mention he has the ability to negate her projectile while she can negate his
If hitsu were to fight ulqui, most of the time I see him losing b/c he can't escape ulqui as easily as he escaped halibel. But hitsu is not weak as everyone here believes. His zanpaktou definitely has some crazy moves. He has many surprises for us. I don'
this is tough for Hitsu. he doesn't get the elemental advantage and that means
he has to face Ulq the standard way. matching impact with impact and speed with
speed. Ichigo who is a speed freak in bankai and who has a mask couldn't
even scratch Ulq in first release.
so I think Hitsu would lose to Ulq's first release! he's slower,weaker and has less range in his attacks! oscuras is a beam of light after all.
Let's put it this way. Ichigo in bankai w/o his mask couldn't even keep up unreleased Ulqui's speed, and Ichigo's bankai is mainly speed, so Ichigo, one of the speediest characters, needs bankai and the mask to keep up with ulqui, oh, and he needs to use his mask to block Ulqui's cero. Seems pretty clear to me, Ulquiora is both strong and fast, and his attacks don't have anything to do with water. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Ulqui managed to pull off a win against Hitsu unreleased just due to his speed and power. Do remember that Ulqui was able to take a Black GT with his bare hands from Ichigo w/ vizard mask in their first skirmish, and then blow him away with his own cero, all of which, unreleased and w/o even drawing his sword.
Also, I don't even think the battles with Barragan and Halibel are finished, simply isn't Kubo's style, to give one side a highlight of their ultimate powers (ice from the heavens that kills you when the flowers bloom, or a one shot super bankai bazooka) and not let the otehr side retaliate.
well if we exclude one factor from this confrontation, that would be fankai, ulqui would shred hitsuGAYa even worse than he did bankai vizard ichigo. what would he do against dark cero? or nuke spears?
Hitsugaya beats R1 Ulquiorra similarly to how he defeated Halibel. R2 Ulquiorra will mess his day up.
R1 Ulq cannot spam Cero Oscuras, and his lance is rather lacking in power. If Hitsugaya is smart he can use Hyōten Hyakkasō or Sennen Hyrou with the power of Tensō Jūrin. R2 Ulquiorra is still beyond him however. I have no doubt Lanza De Relampago can break even Hyoten Hyakkaso. Not to mention he can perform Cero Oscuras instantaneously. He can spam it.
This will not protect him against Lanza or multiple Cero Oscurases. He dies once Ulq goes R2. He handles R1 Moderate-High Difficulty.
Last edited by Hitsug@ya ta1ch0u; June 10, 2009 at 09:09 PM.
But if he tries to engage Ulq in close quarters this'll happen.
I still say that Ulq takes it but he'll need R2.
#1. Ulquiorra with TRUE DESPAIR with end it in under 1.0 seconds.
#2. Ulquiora with R1 would win only because he's smarter than Halibel and wouldn't wait for Hitsugaya to summon a Snow Storms of Death! Seriously, he was just point his sword up into the sky, saying "this technique will destroy you". You know what I'd do? I'd rush him, Kenpachi style and then when he was trying to fight back say "The time you are most vulnerable is during your best attack, don't you remember little bishy captain-chan" Then again, Halibel turned to fight YAMMATO after she though she beat Hitsugaya! What the hell was she thinking? I just beat a guy who is probably the 5th strongest Captain of the Gotei 13 and now I want to fight the #1. Wow, thats a fantastic idea
Seriously, Ulq would do this, Cero oscuras + Close range lance weak version and instanteous regen. If Toshiro froze his arm he would cut it off and grow back a new one. That would be a fight to remember but with a guaranteed outcome. Ulq would stab Hitsugaya through the chest and then we would have the HITSUGAYINATOR!!!!!!!!
cero would travel slower than a wave of ice? surely not.
also compared to vaizard ichigo, Ulq in R1 was much much faster.
so I'm sure he has the speed to evade an ice attack.
in which case Hitsu has to match ulq directly in order to win.
and Hitsu doesn't have the speed nor the strength to accomplish that.
The way I see harribel, I think she only got the higher rank because
she can manipulate an element. but in other areas she looks weaker than
Okay, Hitsug@ya Ta1ch0u.
Hitsu hasn't shown us any speed feats to suggest he is even remotely as fast as Bankai ichigo, much less vizard bankai ichigo, much less Primera Etapa Ulqui, and much much much less Segunda Etapa Ulquiora. I mean, this seems like an easy one to me with just speed alone. THink about Halibel's ONLY successful attack on Hitsu, it was a fast, strong physical attack while she was unreleased IIRC, unfortunately it was just an Ice Mirror, but we know what the results would have been if the ice mirror wasn't there. Ulquiora could probably do that in primera etapa, maybe not as strong, but probably faster, knowing that Ulqui was fast enough in primera etapa to completely outclass vizard bankai ichigo.
Secondly, Ulquiora never used Lanza de Relampagos in primera etapa IIRC, so we don't know whether he can do it, much less if he can do it rapid fire or not. Plus, what suggests that he can fire out cero oscuras all the time in primera etapa? Too many assumptions.
I don't really see how he can defend against cero oscuras or just Ulqui's speed in primera etapa resureccion. We havn't seen Hitsu to be particularly speed, nor his attacks for that matter. The only thing he can hope for to get by primera etapa is his ice mirror, use the ice mirror as a diversion, when Ulqui strikes, Hitsu might be able to get a lucky strike in on Ulqui, convincing Ulqui to go to segunda etapa.
If Ulquiorra uses his atomic-bomb Cero thing, then it doesn't matter how smart or fast or cool Hitsugaya is, he's dead.
The strange thing is that Ulquiorra seems much stronger than Barragan and Halibel, while it should be the opposite. There are two explanations:
1) Ulquiorra is Aizen's trump card and the strongest of them all.
2) We haven't seen nothing of the top three Espada.