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Thread: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ChuckinUpDueces's Avatar
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    -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    This is my forum to ramble on about the culmination of thoughts that make up what I think about Naruto. This is an open, and flowing nature that suits my form of communication best. A smattering of words that bring to life trains of thought, and ideas that flow from that realm of possibility. If you manage to get through it, part way, or would like to elaborate on anything, feel free. Just look in your mind and listen. Do you know what your shadow knows?

    the following are a stoners ramblings on Naruto. Be warned!

    Me High on a Saturday Night.


    The Shadow Clone technique. The Kages, or shadows, of the ninja world, have very strong jutsu, so there techniques carry limitless possiblities! Naruto's technique of shadow clones with his body, and absorbing all the techniques effect on him, might bring forth the power to summon a shadow hand that mimics fast movements. In effect giving him punches that seem like 100 people threw them all at once.

    This is the same movement that Naruto makes to form Rasengan. If he could pack more power into his punch, he might be able to force the wind chakra into the formed chakra quickly and blast the opponent with the resulting gale of force.

    Out of all the techniques in the original rookie 9 , Naruto's own was the highest level jutsu around. Kage Bunshin is a jonin level move, minimum. He's taken on a fellow Jinchuuriki. 2nd Level Curse Seal Sasuke. and Orochimaru twice. Neither times has Naruto fought sanely around him. The Kyuubi always starts coming out. It all started when Sasuke saved his life. Naruto's emotions awoke Kyuubi the same as sleep awakened Shukaku in Gaara. In every other fight he's in, the Kage Bunshin has always been the able to win it, or at least give him a fighting chance. I wonder how much his summons have grown? Or if they grow, to possibly take the place of Gamabunta. He was able to do a combo henge with Gama, why not do a combo Kage Bunshin? Owned. Owned. Owned. Owned.

    When he was able to use Kage Bunshin to dodge around Gaara and winded up landing a golden attack. When he and Sasuke manage to sneak Naruto behind Zabuza's back. He sent that kunai right at his head. It even cut him when he tried to eventually dodge it, intense aim. He almost killed Deidera, who is also a good user of clones. Even Gaara had an impressive sand clone that managed to dodge Lee's Primary Lotus technique. Zabuza's water clones can't go very far from his body, but Naruto can send his off to do tasks of gathering information, and then get the memory of the happening. It's a ridiculously effective technique and his high stamina chakra is a perfect fit. He just has to pour his power into it, and it delivers.

    In short, Kage techniques are great jutsus. Anyone who knows this technique is a formidable opponent. Just ask Naruto's former teacher, I forget his name, but he thought he could take the scroll from Naruto after he learned a technique from it. What a silly guy. He in actuality, is the real reason Naruto even knows about the Kyuubi. Jiraiya basically forced him to his death just so he could meet the Kyuubi and get the power he needed to perfrom a summon. Which he did, and when Jiraiya showed the Rasengan, he was able to master that technique as well. There's no telling what else he knows from what Jiraiya taught him. But you've got to think that it must have been enough to turn him into a ninja to be reckoned with. Team 7, turned out to be the best, based on overall ninja quality. Every other team has a member liability. Sakura has gone up against Akatsuki after her training with Godaime. Who is Hinata? Or Ino? Or Tenten? Sakura is far from a liability. Sanin training puts you at the top of the line.

    To get on the topic of Konoha ninja's, if their Chuunin's are helping Jonin level ninja's kill Akatsuki members. It's gonna be rough. That guy in the Shell from Akatsuki can probably see everything that's going on with Naruto's training with some form of clone. He saw the fight between Sasuke and Naruto it seems. It occured to me that when Gaara was captured, none of the Akatsuki members were actually there in the cave, but rather they were sending their conciousness there somehow. The only ones present were Deidra and Sasori. One was killed, the other lost both his arms escaping. Maybe that too was some sort of Advanced Clay clone that just eventually returned to the host maybe? There are some seriously powerful opponents that come from bodychange clones. Like Itachi and Kisame's. They used up Sasori's minions to protect there own lives. Cuz Konoha ninja's pwn. Naruto on TV is around the part of the begining of the qualifying fights of the Chuunin exams and Lee is about to go all gatey. Wow. Seen it, not a good idea Lee you still suck. hahaha. GOT BIJUU!??!? Nope. Only one of those. What if Kyuubi Naruto used a clone? He used a Second hand to get at Orochimaru. It's quickly replacting your hands using the combination of a henge and kage technique. Which would be what? Form - the chakra to perfom the henge. and Nature - the "shadow" natured chakra to form the Bunshin of material for the hands. Both Naruto and Shikamaru possess, Kage techniques. I don't think it's impossible for someone to learn a Kage Mane. It's not a bloodtrait or anything, it is a high-level shadow technique. Seeing as how chakra stamina is big thing with Shikamaru, imagine he lends the technique to Naruto. It's be like Gaara with sand, but Naruto with Shadows. Again, the quality of the jutsu because of it's class, a shadow technique. At this point, it's safe to consider that if Naruto manages to learn how to fuse 2 kinds of chakra into 1, Kakashi's assessment of his skill level, as a ninja would become so much greater. It lends it self to all types of techniques, turning even the basic off moves into high level combos. What if Naruto cloned a blast of wind chakra?

    Threw a basic move 100 times at an oppenent like when he blew apart the waterfall. The whole point was to learn to focus it to it's greatest point and release it. Naruto throwing the chakra knife now would be a whole different story, now that he's honed his skill. Incidently, it might be a good sign if Sakura is on the way to help. I bet Godaime created that new battalion with Konoha's best combination of ninja's. The Anbu's job is to guard the hokage and the village. As well there also exists orginizatioins within the Leaf itself, with the Root program, and whatever other clasdestine ninja's like Orochimaru and Kabuto lurking about conducting tests and having patience in the wallow of their twisted lairs on the trail of a slow hallow dispair. Sickening. I cast blame on Sasuke for his ignorance of looking for vengence instead of seeking justice. The entire Police Force of Konoha, which was the Uchiha Clan, was killed. All he can think about is killing Itachi, instead of bringing him down. Make him suffer what he's done, like he's made you suffer and end his life with your dignity and your pride still intact. What he's done is given his basic existence away for the sake of gaining more power. Naruto did the same thing in his pact with Kyuubi which started the wave of possessions in which he can't seem to remember past certain stages because of the level of exposure to Kyuubi's force. The full onslaught might kill him if he tries to unlock too much too soon.

    Back to the point. Kage Bunshin lends itself well to learning all the Kage techniques because of the time of recall memory effect. Basically he can do/learn something twice as fast, by studying half as much. 5 times as fast, doing 1/5th of the work. Basically it can add up to some pretty impressive numbers. Which is only the begining. The fire of the shadow illuminates the village. Naruto is definately worthy of surpassing the past Hokages. Yet dreams aren't born in the mind, they exist in the world that never sleeps, never weeps, never peeps, never leaks, never keeps, never needs, never breathes, never bleeds, never leaves, never seems, never beams, never leans, never schemes, never dreams, never did nothing good, and never became you or me. The coldness of the light in the emptiest of space is like being weighed upon with the brunt force of your limit, which is begging you to fail. Yet then here begins the tale. Another sprouts then, and soon you feel the gale. Whipping rails that crack through steel nails in the instant of an e-mail, or credit for the retail.

    Highhead's Theory on Naruto. Here it is. The wind chakra that naruto is trying to harness. Is kinda like Luffy's Rubber Body. It is Steeled to the point of unbreakability. Which isn't to say that it is invulnerable, but it has certain characteristics that when manipulated properly have devestating effects. Basically what Naruto has to do is refract the laws of physics. Force a wind to have the density of steel. That amount of wind. Is uncalculabe. The Rasengan eats through things. Steel isn't even the right kind of descriptive comparison for those kind of destructive capabiliies.

    His eventually mode of operation?: A Sword is an absolute must after this training. Sasuke's new blade looks to be similar to Asuma's Metalkra Knuckleblades. If Asuma can make blades of wind chakra that long, Naruto's sword, or better yet even, a multi tailed whip launching wind thread cracks at opponents.

    Okay, now i'm getting really tired. Work is gonna murder me tomorrow, especially since the girls that run the place are stiffinening up my back from me sitting around so much being lazy. It's really a bore, but a necessary chore to pay for school.

    Okay, what I'd like to see, whether in Naruto, or a fan manga (going to read the new Naruto NG just before the konk out) is control of the Kage Bunshin, to a point where, by mixing wind chakra into the bunshin, the poof when the clone appears can act as a propellant for a taijutsu attack against the opponent. Or instead of wasting chakra keeping the clone around, cycle the chakra into a loop that uses only the amount needed to make the clone perform a specific task. But that's kind of breaking the rule of the Kage Bunshin, or is it? It divides the chakra evenly....does that mean evenly in half? or evenly into useable blocks? Does Naruto really lose 4/5th his total chakra when he uses a move for 4 clones? Is it just momentarily till he recovers it? Does Kage Mane divide your chakra evenly in half for the amount of shadow used for the technique as well? Does Kage Shuriken No Jutsu divide your chakra even as well?

    My best suggestion. Is that Naruto makes tonnes of clones. Practice one, surprise attack all out taijutsu move from a standing position, take the clones in, and practice dividing into clones that launch the move immediately. Maybe another 2 to create Rasengan, and himself in the middle gathering more chakra in preparation to counter the counter and attack head on to knock his oppenent off balance for the real attack in store. Only that's for when he decides to become the next Yondaime. Till then, maybe just a Shunshin Kage Bunshin no jutsu. It'd be sick if he knew Kage Kawarimi Bunshin no Jutsu. Leave decoys for his clones everywhere! HOLY S*T*F*U* it's dumb. dumb. dumb. So stupid it couldn't be anything other than crazy strong. OKay!

    Best attack line.

    Kage Bunshin x 6, into a Shunshin x3, x1 attacking Head on, x2 Forming Rasengan, into a Kawarimi x6 , into x1 grabbing onto opponent, x4 for Uzumaki Naruto Rendan, with a twist where the clone that does the kick downwards grabs the opponent and holds on to lowers his defenses while the Real Naruto hits him with a rushing charge Rasengan.

    How would you stop that? Sasuke's technique are definately a good one, especially if he can be mobile while performing it. Naruto's got so many tools. Yet it all really starts with that one, Kage Bunshin. And for the record, yes, i would have much rathered getting laid tonite.

    [br]Posted on: October 01, 2006, 04:01:31 AM_________________________________________________The Wind Rasengan.

    Ok, so I tend to have to walk home from the train station when i'm getting back from school, and it was really windy outside. The clouds were moving faster than normal, similar to on TV when time is sped up. This led me too thinking a bit about how a Wind Rasengan might work, and as far as I could gather, it's damn near impossible.

    Basically here's what the moving clouds made me think of. When Wind is moving in one direction it can be an extremely powerful force. Wind is basically moving air from a high pressure system, to a low pressure system. The Rasengan alone works by circulating chakra in all directions simultaneously. This works because the Chakra doesn't adversely effect itself by circulating amongst itself. It's just a force. Where as if that same chakra is replaced by Wind, then the gathering energy of the chaotic storm within loses its power whenever it comes into contact with other wind chakra spinning in an opposite direction. When two opposing winds collide, they are forced up. I believe this is what is seen during Naruto's first attemps at a Wind Rasengan. The layer of chakra used to contain the Rasengan, can't be used to contain wind chakra because of its power.

    Well, that was a couple days ago, so today I went back and took a look at Naruto's fight with Orochimaru. One thing that came up was the issue of high density chakra. Kyuubi Naruto made use of a high density Chakra ball and blew it at Orochimaru who used Triple Roushaman to stop the resulting attack. It was devestating to say the least. One of Yamato's comments while watching the fight was that, for the amount of chakra Naruto was putting out, his body was attempting to find a form of equilibrium to balance it out. So in other words, a ninja can't be weaker than his jutsu. More recently, when Naruto started his Wind Chakra training, Kakashi stated that the first step was to "practice getting stronger than your chakra's nature". I suppose the same theory would lend itself to the curse seal, which in fact physically transforms the users body to find an equilibrium for the desired amount of chakra, though at a price.

    So far i've talked about the layer containing Rasengan not being enough to contain Wind Chakra, it's corrolation to High Density Chakra, and a ninja being stronger than his jutsu. I've seen a lot of theories that would like to see Naruto master this new move in the heat of a battle similar to his mastery of Rasengan, however I don't really see this being the case. Naruto at least knew what Rasengan looked like, and what it could do beforehand, so it was just a matter of the right motivation to solve the puzzle. There are a few things about this new jutsu that would be disasterious for Naruto to learn about for the first time in the heat of combat, so it's best that he address those issues during training. Working out a new jutsu is a challenge, working out an S Class Jutsu that relies on Naruto's level of chakra is a completely different story. Here are some of the hurdles he must clear.

    The one thing Naruto needs right now is too become stronger. Not necessarily in the amount of jutsu's that he knows, but physically, and spiritually. He can't really rely on just going to Kyuubi for his chakra needs anymore, and he knows it. What seems to happen with Naruto is that for all his chakra stamina, he reaches a point where the problem becomes knowing where to draw the line on how much chakra is body is capable of balancing out on his own. As his body grows older, and he's capable of handling greater strength, using more powerful jutsu's won't be a problem for him. However, at his current age and level of growth, drawing out enough chakra to: 1) Create a Layer of High Density Chakra to contain the Power of Wind Natured Chakra Rasenganing and 2) Create Kage Bunshins that divide his chakra evenly is a bit much for even him to handle.

    For all the problems related to making this work, it also provides a glimse of just how strong this thing could be. Kakashi tells Yamato that he is the key to Naruto completing the Jutsu. I believe this is due to the fact that Naruto's body keeps trying to solve the problem of equilibrium between the jutsu he's using and what is body is capable of, by transforming him into Kyuubi. However, if Yamato is able to constantly keep the Kyuubi at bay, then Naruto can learn to draw more and more of his latent strength to the surface without having to worry about losing his mind. If the last time we saw Naruto training is any indication, he might be closer than we think, but he just needs time to process how to properly work the seal without erroding it further.

    The Theory:
    One last thing about the Wind Rasengan. What it'll look like and how it might work. I think it will look simliar to the same Kyuubi Chakra Ball seen earlier during his fight with Orochimaru. If you go back and look, notice that the ball got smaller, and smaller. What I see happening with the Wind Rasengan is blowing away all the available air out of the space surrounding his palm and quickly forming an air tight layer of wind chakra around it. Quickly make a Rasengan surrounding this ball and pump as much wind natured chakra into it to the point that the layer of chakra surrounding it is about to collapse. Then create a High Density Ball of Wind Chakra by lowering the initial layer of chakra inside the newly formed Rasengan to suck in as much wind chakra as possible while putting even more in. Since air weighs basically nothing, and density is a mass volume relationship the amount packed in would be tremendous. The Vacuum created would pull the escaping wind chakra into the space without any air, and allow for high volumes to be pumped in instantly with the right user (naturally Naruto). This solves the problem of escaping wind, by giving it a place to escape too. However the main issue remains that Naruto must be able to do this outside of the Kyuubi form.

  2. #2
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Nice post! I agree and hope that the wind rasengan contains a type of vacuum affect.

  3. #3
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Nice introduction. XD

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckinUpDueces
    The Shadow Clone technique. The Kages, or shadows, of the ninja world, have very strong jutsu, so there techniques carry limitless possiblities! Naruto's technique of shadow clones with his body, and absorbing all the techniques effect on him, might bring forth the power to summon a shadow hand that mimics fast movements. In effect giving him punches that seem like 100 people threw them all at once.

    This is the same movement that Naruto makes to form Rasengan. If he could pack more power into his punch, he might be able to force the wind chakra into the formed chakra quickly and blast the opponent with the resulting gale of force.
    I do think the Kage Bunshin will be used somehow to make the "ultimate jutsu" work. I noticed that Naruto right now has been training mostly trying to apply wind to the Rasengan using only two of himself in its creation, but I think it needs more Naruto's than that.

    Quote Quote:
    Out of all the techniques in the original rookie 9 , Naruto's own was the highest level jutsu around. Kage Bunshin is a jonin level move, minimum. He's taken on a fellow Jinchuuriki. 2nd Level Curse Seal Sasuke. and Orochimaru twice. Neither times has Naruto fought sanely around him. The Kyuubi always starts coming out. It all started when Sasuke saved his life. Naruto's emotions awoke Kyuubi the same as sleep awakened Shukaku in Gaara. In every other fight he's in, the Kage Bunshin has always been the able to win it, or at least give him a fighting chance. I wonder how much his summons have grown? Or if they grow, to possibly take the place of Gamabunta. He was able to do a combo henge with Gama, why not do a combo Kage Bunshin? Owned. Owned. Owned. Owned.
    I'd have to agree about Naruto's Kage Bunshin being the highest level jutsu of the Rookie 9 - at first I thought you had forgotten about Neji's Hakke techniques and Lee's Gate openings, but then I realized they weren't part of the Rookie 9.

    But yes, not even the Rasengan and Sasuke's Sharingan has quite seemed as intimidating as the Kage Bunshin, if one knows how to work with it right.

    Quote Quote:
    When he was able to use Kage Bunshin to dodge around Gaara and winded up landing a golden attack. When he and Sasuke manage to sneak Naruto behind Zabuza's back. He sent that kunai right at his head. It even cut him when he tried to eventually dodge it, intense aim. He almost killed Deidera, who is also a good user of clones. Even Gaara had an impressive sand clone that managed to dodge Lee's Primary Lotus technique. Zabuza's water clones can't go very far from his body, but Naruto can send his off to do tasks of gathering information, and then get the memory of the happening. It's a ridiculously effective technique and his high stamina chakra is a perfect fit. He just has to pour his power into it, and it delivers.
    Yeah, I'd have to agree the Kage Bunshin is perfect for misdirection.

    Quote Quote:
    In short, Kage techniques are great jutsus. Anyone who knows this technique is a formidable opponent. Just ask Naruto's former teacher, I forget his name,
    Mizuki.

    Quote Quote:
    but he thought he could take the scroll from Naruto after he learned a technique from it. What a silly guy. He in actuality, is the real reason Naruto even knows about the Kyuubi. Jiraiya basically forced him to his death just so he could meet the Kyuubi and get the power he needed to perfrom a summon. Which he did, and when Jiraiya showed the Rasengan, he was able to master that technique as well. There's no telling what else he knows from what Jiraiya taught him. But you've got to think that it must have been enough to turn him into a ninja to be reckoned with. Team 7, turned out to be the best, based on overall ninja quality. Every other team has a member liability. Sakura has gone up against Akatsuki after her training with Godaime. Who is Hinata? Or Ino? Or Tenten? Sakura is far from a liability. Sanin training puts you at the top of the line.
    Well, Hinata and Ino we haven't quite seen them in Part 2 action yet, but I'd have to agree that Sakura would win the prize for "Most Improved" ninja so far.

    Quote Quote:
    To get on the topic of Konoha ninja's, if their Chuunin's are helping Jonin level ninja's kill Akatsuki members. It's gonna be rough. That guy in the Shell from Akatsuki can probably see everything that's going on with Naruto's training with some form of clone.
    Zetsu, btw. Or Venus Fly-Trap Man, as I like to call him sometimes. >.>

    Quote Quote:
    He saw the fight between Sasuke and Naruto it seems. It occured to me that when Gaara was captured, none of the Akatsuki members were actually there in the cave, but rather they were sending their conciousness there somehow. The only ones present were Deidra and Sasori. One was killed, the other lost both his arms escaping. Maybe that too was some sort of Advanced Clay clone that just eventually returned to the host maybe? There are some seriously powerful opponents that come from bodychange clones. Like Itachi and Kisame's. They used up Sasori's minions to protect there own lives.
    You could be right about Zetsu watching Naruto right now, he certainly seems capable of it, and the Akatsuki have seemed to orient themselves on him again now. Would make sense since Naruto revealed himself recently to them...

    As for the Akatsuki, yeah, they're all powerful, but I think their personalities may actually be what will beat them in the end. They do all clash a bit.

    Quote Quote:
    Cuz Konoha ninja's pwn. Naruto on TV is around the part of the begining of the qualifying fights of the Chuunin exams and Lee is about to go all gatey. Wow. Seen it, not a good idea Lee you still suck. hahaha. GOT BIJUU!??!? Nope. Only one of those.
    I think you got carried away a bit too much with the ramblings here >.>

    Quote Quote:
    What if Kyuubi Naruto used a clone? He used a Second hand to get at Orochimaru. It's quickly replacting your hands using the combination of a henge and kage technique. Which would be what? Form - the chakra to perfom the henge. and Nature - the "shadow" natured chakra to form the Bunshin of material for the hands. Both Naruto and Shikamaru possess, Kage techniques. I don't think it's impossible for someone to learn a Kage Mane. It's not a bloodtrait or anything, it is a high-level shadow technique. Seeing as how chakra stamina is big thing with Shikamaru, imagine he lends the technique to Naruto. It's be like Gaara with sand, but Naruto with Shadows. Again, the quality of the jutsu because of it's class, a shadow technique. At this point, it's safe to consider that if Naruto manages to learn how to fuse 2 kinds of chakra into 1, Kakashi's assessment of his skill level, as a ninja would become so much greater. It lends it self to all types of techniques, turning even the basic off moves into high level combos. What if Naruto cloned a blast of wind chakra?
    So you WERE thinking of Shikamaru's Kage Mane. I think that technique has already been mentioned to have to do with "yin" and "yang" manipulation, something I have some doubt that Naruto will be able to learn. It's probably one of these genetic things that only certain clans can accomplish, like the Nara and Akamaru clan.

    Your initial post is kind of long, so hopefully you don't mind if I skip to the end here:

    Quote Quote:
    The Wind Rasengan.

    Ok, so I tend to have to walk home from the train station when i'm getting back from school, and it was really windy outside. The clouds were moving faster than normal, similar to on TV when time is sped up. This led me too thinking a bit about how a Wind Rasengan might work, and as far as I could gather, it's damn near impossible.

    Basically here's what the moving clouds made me think of. When Wind is moving in one direction it can be an extremely powerful force. Wind is basically moving air from a high pressure system, to a low pressure system. The Rasengan alone works by circulating chakra in all directions simultaneously. This works because the Chakra doesn't adversely effect itself by circulating amongst itself. It's just a force. Where as if that same chakra is replaced by Wind, then the gathering energy of the chaotic storm within loses its power whenever it comes into contact with other wind chakra spinning in an opposite direction. When two opposing winds collide, they are forced up. I believe this is what is seen during Naruto's first attemps at a Wind Rasengan. The layer of chakra used to contain the Rasengan, can't be used to contain wind chakra because of its power.

    Well, that was a couple days ago, so today I went back and took a look at Naruto's fight with Orochimaru. One thing that came up was the issue of high density chakra. Kyuubi Naruto made use of a high density Chakra ball and blew it at Orochimaru who used Triple Roushaman to stop the resulting attack. It was devestating to say the least. One of Yamato's comments while watching the fight was that, for the amount of chakra Naruto was putting out, his body was attempting to find a form of equilibrium to balance it out. So in other words, a ninja can't be weaker than his jutsu. More recently, when Naruto started his Wind Chakra training, Kakashi stated that the first step was to "practice getting stronger than your chakra's nature". I suppose the same theory would lend itself to the curse seal, which in fact physically transforms the users body to find an equilibrium for the desired amount of chakra, though at a price.

    So far i've talked about the layer containing Rasengan not being enough to contain Wind Chakra, it's corrolation to High Density Chakra, and a ninja being stronger than his jutsu. I've seen a lot of theories that would like to see Naruto master this new move in the heat of a battle similar to his mastery of Rasengan, however I don't really see this being the case. Naruto at least knew what Rasengan looked like, and what it could do beforehand, so it was just a matter of the right motivation to solve the puzzle. There are a few things about this new jutsu that would be disasterious for Naruto to learn about for the first time in the heat of combat, so it's best that he address those issues during training. Working out a new jutsu is a challenge, working out an S Class Jutsu that relies on Naruto's level of chakra is a completely different story. Here are some of the hurdles he must clear.

    The one thing Naruto needs right now is too become stronger. Not necessarily in the amount of jutsu's that he knows, but physically, and spiritually. He can't really rely on just going to Kyuubi for his chakra needs anymore, and he knows it. What seems to happen with Naruto is that for all his chakra stamina, he reaches a point where the problem becomes knowing where to draw the line on how much chakra is body is capable of balancing out on his own. As his body grows older, and he's capable of handling greater strength, using more powerful jutsu's won't be a problem for him. However, at his current age and level of growth, drawing out enough chakra to: 1) Create a Layer of High Density Chakra to contain the Power of Wind Natured Chakra Rasenganing and 2) Create Kage Bunshins that divide his chakra evenly is a bit much for even him to handle.

    For all the problems related to making this work, it also provides a glimse of just how strong this thing could be. Kakashi tells Yamato that he is the key to Naruto completing the Jutsu. I believe this is due to the fact that Naruto's body keeps trying to solve the problem of equilibrium between the jutsu he's using and what is body is capable of, by transforming him into Kyuubi. However, if Yamato is able to constantly keep the Kyuubi at bay, then Naruto can learn to draw more and more of his latent strength to the surface without having to worry about losing his mind. If the last time we saw Naruto training is any indication, he might be closer than we think, but he just needs time to process how to properly work the seal without erroding it further.

    The Theory:
    One last thing about the Wind Rasengan. What it'll look like and how it might work. I think it will look simliar to the same Kyuubi Chakra Ball seen earlier during his fight with Orochimaru. If you go back and look, notice that the ball got smaller, and smaller. What I see happening with the Wind Rasengan is blowing away all the available air out of the space surrounding his palm and quickly forming an air tight layer of wind chakra around it. Quickly make a Rasengan surrounding this ball and pump as much wind natured chakra into it to the point that the layer of chakra surrounding it is about to collapse. Then create a High Density Ball of Wind Chakra by lowering the initial layer of chakra inside the newly formed Rasengan to suck in as much wind chakra as possible while putting even more in. Since air weighs basically nothing, and density is a mass volume relationship the amount packed in would be tremendous. The Vacuum created would pull the escaping wind chakra into the space without any air, and allow for high volumes to be pumped in instantly with the right user (naturally Naruto). This solves the problem of escaping wind, by giving it a place to escape too. However the main issue remains that Naruto must be able to do this outside of the Kyuubi form.
    Very, very interesting. Will be fun to see if you're right. ^^

  4. #4
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ChuckinUpDueces's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Thanks for the comments Narasu and Gold Knight. I hope anyone who got a chance to wade through that piece enjoyed it, and I will add more whenever another tangent hits me. CHEERS!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Must say, this might just be one of the most high level writings I have read on the forum. dou you work for a news paper? or are you a author/poet kinda deal?

    Cant say that I agree with you on all your points, but where is it writ that I have to? It was still most enjoyable! If I find the time and motivation I might come back and start writing short (or maybe even a little longer) comments and thoughts about the topics you mentioned.

    looking forward to reading more of your work.
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    Scanlator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Believe's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    My brain exploded after reading all of this, but you did make many valid points, and some very interesting ideas on the wind rasengan .

    I think it would be an excellent idea if implemented.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Too much info, I didn't read everything but got most of the points, it is good writing nonetheless.
    -kage bushin is a good move because it can use in many combos, save time, store exp, no distance limitation, and can have more than one mind
    -wind rasengan- need high density charka to contain the wind nature within or something like that right.

    I guess you are more a logic thinker person with science background.

    My opinion is that I must say because of the kage bunshin (plus 9-tails to enforce kage bunshin), Naruto got an unfair advantage compare to the other members of Rokie 9.

    In the beginning I see the Kage bunshin as cheap shot since his clone got beaten easily but slowly I realize that Naruto is just as smart as shikimaru. Naruto's smartness is different however. He is like a general commanding troops of shadow clones. *the good thing is that the clones listen to him.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Quote Quote:
    *the good thing is that the clones listen to him.
    except when they get into arguments with him, which happenes rather often. ha ha
    *amused*
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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Quote Originally Posted by kiddo7
    except when they get into arguments with him, which happenes rather often. ha ha
    *amused*
    rather truth xp

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ChuckinUpDueces's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    Wow, it's been a long time. I think I will skip the theatrics and get straight into the good stuff. Naruto, the Kage Techniques, and anything else I stumble over along the way.

    This latest chapter left me wondering one simple question. Would Konoha become stronger or weaker now with the loss of Sarutobi Asuma? It seems like the answer is up in the air now. Are the signs of Naruto's acquiescence of a new jutsu, and Shikamaru's new resilience to crying in the face of smoke, point to a stronger or weaker Konoha? Obviously, it seems that they are stronger for it. Knowing that a Jonin like Asuma could lose his life to the forces that they are against has brought a sence of urgent intensity to the village. I believe this has heightened the chances of Konoha winning the final showdown with Akatsuki, and brings plenty of meaning to the death of Asuma.

    Moving forward from here, we have Shikamaru teaching himself chakra nature manipulation. Which interestingly enough is black. Now Kagemane, may or may not be a technique exclusive to the Nara clan due to whatever reasons possible, but never the less, the color of the chakra seemed to be dark. This immediately leads one to believe that he is channeling shadow chakra to the blades. However, he is not making any hand seals. Every Kagemane technique so far as relied on using the hands to control the flow of chakra. Without this the shadows fail. Naruto cannot make Kage Bunshins without handseals. To be exact, I don't mean to overstate similairites which are only vaguely clear, but rather it seems that Kage techniques require chakra to be mixed a certain way in order to be made useful. Just how Asuma uses handseals for fire techniques, yet channeled the nature of his chakra to create windblades, ninjutsu's require handseals. Since Kagemane is a ninjutsu, and not a chakra type, thinking that an extending shadowblade would somehow be possible is just silly, but fun to think about! So what is Shikamaru's chakra nature then? Shadow? or something else? There was that whole junk on mixing nature's to create new ones like water and earth for wood, or water and wind for ice. Possibly earth and fire creates shadow, or maybe it's lightening and earth. It seems to mirror a power that combines life and death (through the fire and earth) or even heaven and earth (lightening and earth)

    Either way, nothing seems to be stopping the completion of the wind Rasengan. Every time I see this thing near it's completion I think about how appropriate a jutsu this is for Naruto. Kyuubi was said to be able to level mountains and raise strong winds with just a swing of it's tail. When I see the Rasengan dissiapate, the swirling winds that escape remind me of Kyuubi's Tail for some reason. It's like a daydream though, because Kyuubi's Tails couldn't cut anything, it was just like a brunt force of nature. Even still, such a sweeping blow would create a gust, and if that gust could cut, it would be serious.

    Then there was the whole Akatsuki plan. Which sounds so contrived that it actually sounds like a plan. I'm tired of lame excuses and methods to taking over the world. It's obvious you can't take power, the world must give you power. So the best way to do that is to make yourself the best power for hire there is and create turmoil which requires that power. Nothing I ever would have thought of, but very intriging, especially since only a supurbly skilled person could even attempt it.

    Lastly the chess game. Now, I don't understand Shougi, nor will I attempt to at this point. So I'll relate it to a chess game. Pawns are pieces that can become greater later on, but should be sacrificed to spare more important pieces if needed. If you look at the situations that have presented themselves in Naruto it can become clearer who represents what piece. It seems kinda obvious actually. Whenever you play a game of Shougi or chess, the King becomes the someone that is precious enough to you, that losing them is worth any price to pay. That is why people play and understand the game differently. In order to protect something precious to you, what obstacle can you use to delay the enemy? What action can you use to defeat the enemy? I believe that what Shikamaru had to tell Kurenai was that she had in fact become Asuma's King. Since he didn't give any message to Shikamaru that was seen before his death. It's disheartening to think that what Asuma might have been planning to talk to Kakashi about was maybe marrying Kurenai, but what's done is done. The overall thing about it is, regardless of what piece you are, if your defeat/death means doom for anyone other then yourself you can be assured your the king. Actually, to put it in another way, you could say that once your enemy's objectives can be met without obstalces, you have lost your King, and the game. However if you become an obstalce, and are sacrificed while changing the enemy's path, the game is not necessarily lost. As such manuevers can lenthen the game considerably. Now Akatsuki knows that Konoha ninja's will not stop till death, makin them more weary of coming to lay waste to them. At the same time however, this gives either side ample notice to prepare absolute certainties for victory that one side will be unable to overcome.


    Just a lite edition this time, for easy reading. Feel free to comment/agree/disagree. Cheers.

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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    I really like your analysis of the king situation. That would explain why Asuma insisted on attaking alone even when everyone told him that it is insane. He was trying to avoid any chance of shikamaru getting hurt and the best way to do that was to take the fall for him. here is one more very believable theory, Now we just have to wait and see what Kishi has to say about the matter.

    I always hate it when an unresolved mystery remains unsolved, I really would have liked to know what Asuma wanted to tell Kakashi, but there is just absolutely now way we are going to find out now. That is such a shame, really a tragedy.

    About Shikamaru's chakra element, I only downloaded the low qual. scan so I attributed the dark collor to the poor cleaning job. however, judging from the shape, It looked a lot like water to me.

    And from the looks of it, Konoha is only getting stronger whether good things happen or not. I am convinced that team 10 is going out on a (probably) self initiated mission to kick some major akatsuki ass. I think for the first time we are going to see the full extent of the growth of these kinds since the time skip, I can hardly wait.

    I once again enjoyed reading your post very much, until next time.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ChuckinUpDueces's Avatar
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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-


    Thanks Kiddo, I welcome your feedback! I'd like to point out to you though, that when Naruto first tried to focus chakra into Asuma's blades, it too came out looking wobbley/water like as well. However his chakra was clear, like his wind element, whereas Shika's appears to be dark coloured. The water like appearence was explained by Asuma to be a lack of focus, or mastery of the technique in question. Your point does raise other questions however, about what exactly a water blade could do. Wind blades have been shown to have extreme cut, and lightening blades are shown to have extreme cut as well while also inducing paralysis, or numbness. It boggles the mind to think up what kind of effects water, fire, earth, or even shadow chakra infused blades are capable of.

    I totally agreee with your predictions on the fate of team 10 since all this lead up sure seems to point in that general direction. As cool as Chouji and Shikamaru's techniques are, what I'd really like to see is Ino's growth. When Konoha was invaded it seemed like the parents of team 10 were using techniques similiar to ones their kids had mastered. ANY kind of variation on the Shinten(?) that is original would totally make team 10 more of a viable threat to the Akatsuki in my eyes. As far as where we know them to be, they don't stand a chance with Ino in the line up.[br]Posted on: November 13, 2006, 04:52:58 PM_________________________________________________The Shadows of Konoha are becoming even more pronounced as more light is shed on the world of Naruto. One thing that really strikes me as the chapters go by, is how much more of a leader Shikamaru is. Imagine that all of the teams that were sent out are still on patrol as Shikamaru goes to engage the enemy. He isn't looking for them, he heading there way. Is everyone just hunting there own Akatsuki?

    Naruto's wind jutsu looks to be as strong as was hoped for. His abilities are growing enormously. Training with Yamato seems to be the best bet to making Naruto stronger. Yamato can sympathize with the situation he's in, gifted and cursed at the same time. However, the real injustice is, that no matter how powerful The Sphered Wind Spiral turns out to be, Naruto won't become Hokage. The best young ninja from Konoha right now is Shikamaru. Kakuzu's respect for his abilities were inherent from there first meeting. Even Kakashi praises his abilites. The ninja is prepared, and he always seems to be. Which is what makes him so advanced in light of all the other powerful allies he has. His direction is key, which makes him the best ninja to have around. The strongest ninja doesn't necessarily NEED to be there, for instance in Jiraiya's case. So though Naruto may have far reaching abilities with powerful jutsu's, his focus is doesn't waver away from one spot for very long to have an understanding of things in full scope at the ready. Shikamaru can see these things, and therefore would be the ideal commander in chief.

    Ko-no-hama-ru, where are you? You've got some work to do now. Does a coward like Ebisu have the necessary skills to watch over the lives of Konohamaru and his gang? Even if Hamaru is potent, I can't imagine his commrades being much use right now, so they all are not likey involved in the current conflict, unless new information arises, all I see him do is cry at funerals.

    I hope Sakura is learning nature manipulation as well. It's possible that she already knows it, and it is the source of her "monstrous strength". She would be an ideal candidate for learning Rasengan with her Chakra control. Her punches already rely on forming and releasing chakra explosively quick already. Imagine a Rasengan delivered with a punch?

    The new move will be a Sphere with wind Chakra spinning violently inside of it and the size and effect of the sphere is huge. How convenient that Chidori Nagashi can now be beaten with a 3 Clones Sphered Spiral of Wind. I'd like to propose a difference between a Chidori, and a Raikiri. If Chidori pierces a target, then Raikiri goes through a target. Sasuke's Chidori cuts matter down, but a Raikiri simply obliterates matter. To cut lightening, you'd have to obliterate its matter, whatever that is made of.

    The one thing Yamato said that is puzzling is how wind feeds a fire. A breath can put out a match, and if there is nothing to burn, the wind will eventually put it out. Wind can stoke a fire, but wind in certain conditions will win out against it to. This really only leaves the door open to Naruto bringing back Sasuke either dead or really close to it.

    After the current arc, once Akatsuki is defeated, Konoha will be a world power for eliminating the Terror Risks.

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    Re: -Thoughts of a Kage Bunshin-

    interesting thoughts, and they did get me thinking, however, i have a few theories of my own. Rasengan to me seems to be a technique to completely overpower tHe enemie, now, if what you said about the new wind-rasengan would be true, it would lose alot of power, as people would be sucked in, which would barely increase its power, HOWEVER, IF he created a high pressure core made of wind inside the rasengan, the air would rush away, AND the chakra aswell, so my theory is like a convection current ( i think) or more simply, lava lamp theory, where the air, is pushed out from the core, and then caught and forced back in, keeping the same amount of pressure all throughout, and this would ADD to the destructive force, as he could easily not catch the wind as it is being forced out, allowing him to add more pushing power to his rasengan.....my theory, but kudos to you, because i would have never thought of this if you hadnt brought it up

    As to shikimaru's blades, i believe (could very well be wrong here) that the chakra knives retain the chakra pumped into them, so if he merely did (shadow bind) on the knifes themselves, and then used a low amount of chakra to hold them, they would posses the same quallty, as he bound the knifes, therefore binding the person, no theory as to the bubbly-ness,

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