Shin Prince of Tennis Hangout Thread

[Airgrimes]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but why didn't Ochi and Mouri Synchro?

Also, is this indication that Sanada has controlled Black Aura? http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_p...04/c048/6.html

Sanada can control Black Aura freely now.

Ochi and Mouri didn't use Synchro because they can't. I think from now on, every pair who can use Synchro will start using it if they have it on demand as soon as they feel slightly pushed.
Like Washio/Suzuki and Mutsu² did. As soon as they felt pushed, they brought out Synchro.

[TheShiraishi]

Oh yay... like we need more separation of Sanada from the others

So Ochi Mouri are 1st String Doubles simply due to sheer power. I thought they were holding back for whatever odd reason, thanks.

[Airgrimes]

Just how I felt. The MSers now have massive gaps between each set of players.
Konomi has distributed significant improvement just here and there lol.

Ochi showed his stuff with Mental Pressure and Mach. Tezuka!Niou couldn't do a thing against it. Atobe could sometimes return it.
Mental Pressure takes games too. Ochi is easily dangerous at Singles.

Mouri we only know wiped Kenya.
I honestly expected more from Mouri too, but it wasn't to be.
I still don't think he was that good of a player to be part of what is famed as ''G10''.

What's happened is that the strongest pairs are all makeshift pairs, so they cannot perform Synchro unless Niou is involved.
All the Synchro pairs are just best friends that are average Singles players. (Oishi being below average).

Your right though, Ochi and Mouri did let Atobe/Niou pair have the first set after Cabbage interrupted and got kicked out. So the first set could have been won by them.

[TheShiraishi]

It's a pity... unless we can get some good Synchro/extreme teamwork formations, Doubles has essentially turned into Singles.

Another question: What's so great about Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami? Maybe I'm not getting exactly how it works... does it run a bunch of sims like a computer till the player can win?

[Airgrimes]

It's a pity... unless we can get some good Synchro/extreme teamwork formations, Doubles has essentially turned into Singles.

Another question: What's so great about Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami? Maybe I'm not getting exactly how it works... does it run a bunch of sims like a computer till the player can win?

Singles-Only.
It's a way to counter somebody who can overpower you I believe.
I think its great, but overhyped. It has its limits, but Tezuka was able to use it for 6games straight. However he had Hyakkuren Jitoku no Kiwami at the same time.

Not sure on how to explain it though.

[Fuji Shusuke]

Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami allows the player to focus the power of Muga into their brain to accelerate mental processes to the point where the player can almost instantaneously simulate all of the possibilities for a point and determine the minimum amount of shots needed to win the point at their current ability.

It can only be used in singles because presumably, the addition of an uncontrolled variable onto your side to too much for your brain to process.

I've brought this up before but I'd like to again but, Saiki Kanpatsu's prediction has only been exceeded and not the inverse. Why is that? You see Chitose make a prediction, then Tezuka exceeds the prediction. Same with Tezuka!Niou and Fuji. Is that one of the cardinal rules of PoT? That SKnK's prediction will always predict the minimum number of shots before the point ends?

[Airgrimes]

I reckon your theory is bang on.
But, Saiki Kanpatsu has been neglected so far in PoT.

Tezuka decided to only use Hyakku Ren Jitoku against Yamato and we haven't seen Ryoma in action.
And we haven't seen Niou in Singles match yet.

But yeah, we haven't seen a guy call 9shots in Saiki, thenthe opponent breaks it in 5shots.

But we did see Yips interfere with it. Ryoma called like... 6 shots, then I think it ended in 6 shots but not for him winning the point.

Would be good to see Muga in action again. I loved seeing Muga and its doors in matches.
Really want Konomi to go back and focus on his MSers properly again.
He's done a good job on Atobe/Niou and he's been okay with Marui/Kite.

[Fuji Shusuke]

Maybe SKnK has been abandoned because if it worked every time it would be hax. Every SKnK user would win 6-0 if the opponent didn't have an unpredictability skill such as In or Closed Eyes.

Here's something, if Yips interfered with SKnK, will Ochi's eye do the same?
Also, what would happen if the SKnK user were to face BJK? "6 shots until my wrist breaks" XD

I guess Konomi didn't think this through as much :S

---------- Post added at 02:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

This is the problem with absolute techniques. (SKnK isn't completely absolute but it is in the fact that its prediction of minimum shots is always correct.) Absolute techniques break the storyline. You say, "Hey Byodouin, take my Atobe Kingdom," then the point is over. If the technique is guaranteed to work every time then the plot is broken -_-

[Brandnewkid]

SKnK is something you won't see so much because it doesn't really do anything. It doesn't predict what move the person wiil do next, it just tells how many shots until the next point. It's only something Konomi really put in the story for what I call "empty dramatic effect." When we first seen it, it was a big deal, but when you think about it, it doesn't really do anything except give the characters a reason to say "Wow! His prediction was spot on!"

[Airgrimes]

I believe SKnK has been abondoned because the only guys left are Niou, Chitose and Ryoma.
Konomi has been throwing constant doubles matches which are making me sick personally. No SKnK in Doubles lol.

Chitose, I think despite his popularity will not be shown in a Singles match.

This isn't PoT where Konomi wonderfully gifted us with all kinds of play styles and abilities in Singles over the course of the series with Low tier guys like Kikumaru, Kamio, Sengoku, Kai, Ibu in Singles or Mid tier guys like Akutagawa, Yushi, Hiyoshi, Gin to Lower High guys like Inui, Yanagi and Kite in Singles.

Where we had a variety of guys where there will definetely be people susceptible to losing to SKnK.
And we could still enjoy a good match out of it.

Only the really strong will be in Singles from now I reckon which is a bit boring for me since I enjoyed the lesser abilities.
Niou as the best Doubles player in the series likely won't be in Singles again either.

And I reckon with Ryoma left, the limits of SKnK will show against the only possible opponents he has who are Ryoga, Tokugawa and Byoudouin.
Facing men who could all contend for the best in the camp wouldn't show opportunities to use SKnK I reckon.

[-Ken-]

Konomi probably just didn't make Tezuka use SNsK because he don't know much way to break it. It's just a broken skill. If Tezuka CAN use SNsK back then, it'll probably will calculated that he'll have to use the bottom of Racket to return Rai, and that's probably why Sanada block it using In.

Give a character too broken of a skill and, to beat it? you just can't use the tech.

[Airgrimes]

Which is simply called sealing it in PoT.
In and Closed Eyes sealed SKnK.

[LetalHawk]

Which is simply called sealing it in PoT.
In and Closed Eyes sealed SKnK.

Still, Ryoma didn't show in the finals any improved version of Saiki. Will we see him using it to his fullest like Hyakuren in SPOT? I still have the feeling that Konomi has to show an upgraded version of Saiki like Moveable Hyakuren, a Saiki that no matter what technique uses the oponent or state he is into, the player will always predict him. Or something like that

[Airgrimes]

Oh yay... like we need more separation of Sanada from the others

So Ochi Mouri are 1st String Doubles simply due to sheer power. I thought they were holding back for whatever odd reason, thanks.

Also, Ochi and Mouri are two years apart in age, and unlike Oishi/Kikumaru, Washio/Suzuki and Tachibana/Chitose are not in the same year.

For those MSers, they are known as best friends for a long time. Doubt Ochi and Mouri could have been friends for a long time given that Mouri was in Rikkai til just last year.

[Kaoz]

Kirihara doesn't say that. He say MS have good win %. It means in the court shuffle, they manage to win a lot of the times. I'm thinking that it's all 100%. And because it's all 100%, the coach decided to go with the HS instead of MS.

This is a quote from one of the tournament threads. I'm posting this stuff here because it's more of a general thing, but that's what spawned it. Basically I've been wondering whether it's possible and likely for the quoted scenario to actually be the case, which resulted in the following convo.

[2012-10-18 08:58:31] <Kaoz> hmm... say, assuming you have 147 people and each of those people has 50 matches, how many people can have a 100% win quota after those matches at most?
[2012-10-18 09:00:20] <Miyagi> at first sight it seems difficult to calculate
[2012-10-18 09:01:15] <Kaoz> is there a "but if you look at it a little more carefuly, ..." coming up or was that just a statement
[2012-10-18 09:01:34] <Miyagi> lol no
[2012-10-18 09:01:52] <Miyagi> these winners should never face each other
[2012-10-18 09:02:38] <Miyagi> so we're looking for max number of group of people who will never face each other
[2012-10-18 09:18:06] <Miyagi> suppose we have a group of 51 people
[2012-10-18 09:18:19] <Miyagi> these people can play 50 matches among themselves
[2012-10-18 09:18:26] <Miyagi> 147-51 = 96
[2012-10-18 09:18:47] <Miyagi> divide the rest into two
[2012-10-18 09:18:52] <Miyagi> 96/2 = 48
[2012-10-18 09:19:05] <Miyagi> 48 people will be in a group who will always win
[2012-10-18 09:19:21] <Miyagi> and others will always lose
[2012-10-18 09:19:38] <Miyagi> the people from the first group will play the people from the second
[2012-10-18 09:22:51] <Miyagi> there can be one more 100% winner in the 51 people group
[2012-10-18 09:22:57] <Kaoz> ok.. then they need another two matches against the 51 people group (actually reduce that to 50... it's only 146 people total)
[2012-10-18 09:24:55] <Kaoz> but basically you're saying there would be 49 winners at most, right?
[2012-10-18 09:25:00] <Miyagi> yes
[2012-10-18 09:25:36] <Miyagi> but if the matches are random, it would be much less
[2012-10-18 09:25:48] <Kaoz> would it be possible to determine how likely that scenario is and what's the average?
[2012-10-18 09:29:01] <Miyagi> very hard, if I could make an application that could create the random fixture, it might be easy
[2012-10-18 11:35:37] <Miyagi> I made a small application, it doesn't create a perfect fixture but good enough for our purposes
[2012-10-18 11:36:07] <Miyagi> 49 winners is impossible in practice
[2012-10-18 11:36:19] <Miyagi> what you can expect is 6 on average
[2012-10-18 11:37:39] <Kaoz> can you elaborate on how you calculated it?
[2012-10-18 11:38:28] <Miyagi> you create a random fixture in which 147 players play 50 matches each
[2012-10-18 11:38:45] <Kaoz> can they play the same person twice?
[2012-10-18 11:38:49] <Miyagi> no
[2012-10-18 11:39:03] <Kaoz> ok
[2012-10-18 11:39:21] <Miyagi> the fixture algorithm isn't perfect though, so it may happen under rare conditions
[2012-10-18 11:39:34] <Miyagi> it doesn't affect the result much
[2012-10-18 11:39:39] <Kaoz> yeah
[2012-10-18 11:40:12] <Miyagi> then when they play, the person who has more wins wins
[2012-10-18 11:40:32] <Kaoz> so the first round is random and afterwards the winners keep winning?
[2012-10-18 11:40:40] <Miyagi> when all matches are complete, I calculate the number of people with no losses
[2012-10-18 11:40:48] <Miyagi> yes
[2012-10-18 11:40:56] <Kaoz> ah ic
[2012-10-18 11:41:26] <Kaoz> ...you couldn't maybe give a result for all players by any chance, could you?
[2012-10-18 11:41:57] <Kaoz> so that it just lists A won x%, B won y% etc.
[2012-10-18 11:42:07] <Miyagi> the number of wins for all 147 players?
[2012-10-18 11:42:09] <Miyagi> oh
[2012-10-18 11:42:21] <Kaoz> I'm just curious
[2012-10-18 11:43:15] <Miyagi> I simulated the league 100 times and calculated the average
[2012-10-18 11:43:20] <Kaoz> ah ok
[2012-10-18 11:43:27] <Kaoz> nvm then
[2012-10-18 11:43:34] <Miyagi> if I simulate 100 times, no player will have a perfect score
[2012-10-18 11:43:50] <Miyagi> but I can give you results for one league
[2012-10-18 11:44:17] <Kaoz> yeah that makes sense... the only way would maybe be to order the results and then average all first ranked, second ranked etc.
[2012-10-18 11:45:10] <Miyagi> hmm, yes, it's possible and relatively easy
[2012-10-18 11:46:04] <Kaoz> if you did that, could you change the number of players to 146? I forgot to substract one person :/
[2012-10-18 11:46:11] <Miyagi> ok
[2012-10-18 11:46:19] <Miyagi> 146 players and 50 matches, right?
[2012-10-18 11:46:23] <Kaoz> yeah

And here's the results of that last calculation:

Player 1 won 100 %
Player 2 won 99,98 %
Player 3 won 99,98 %
Player 4 won 99,86 %
Player 5 won 99,6 %
Player 6 won 99 %
Player 7 won 98,4 %
Player 8 won 97,86 %
Player 9 won 97,22 %
Player 10 won 96,72 %
Player 11 won 95,88 %
Player 12 won 95,26 %
Player 13 won 94,72 %
Player 14 won 93,98 %
Player 15 won 93,26 %
Player 16 won 92,54 %
Player 17 won 91,8 %
Player 18 won 91,2 %
Player 19 won 90,4 %
Player 20 won 89,82 %
Player 21 won 89,12 %
Player 22 won 88,12 %
Player 23 won 87,34 %
Player 24 won 86,48 %
Player 25 won 85,82 %
Player 26 won 85,14 %
Player 27 won 84,44 %
Player 28 won 83,74 %
Player 29 won 82,86 %
Player 30 won 82,06 %
Player 31 won 81,34 %
Player 32 won 80,78 %
Player 33 won 80 %
Player 34 won 79,18 %
Player 35 won 78,38 %
Player 36 won 77,82 %
Player 37 won 77,1 %
Player 38 won 76,44 %
Player 39 won 75,76 %
Player 40 won 74,96 %
Player 41 won 74,18 %
Player 42 won 73,56 %
Player 43 won 72,64 %
Player 44 won 72,1 %
Player 45 won 71,24 %
Player 46 won 70,42 %
Player 47 won 69,74 %
Player 48 won 69,14 %
Player 49 won 68,28 %
Player 50 won 67,54 %
Player 51 won 66,94 %
Player 52 won 66,18 %
Player 53 won 65,34 %
Player 54 won 64,62 %
Player 55 won 63,9 %
Player 56 won 62,94 %
Player 57 won 62,26 %
Player 58 won 61,46 %
Player 59 won 60,6 %
Player 60 won 59,84 %
Player 61 won 59,14 %
Player 62 won 58,54 %
Player 63 won 57,98 %
Player 64 won 57,18 %
Player 65 won 56,46 %
Player 66 won 55,82 %
Player 67 won 54,88 %
Player 68 won 54,22 %
Player 69 won 53,46 %
Player 70 won 52,76 %
Player 71 won 52,14 %
Player 72 won 51,12 %
Player 73 won 50,24 %
Player 74 won 49,6 %
Player 75 won 48,9 %
Player 76 won 48,12 %
Player 77 won 47,58 %
Player 78 won 46,66 %
Player 79 won 45,86 %
Player 80 won 45,12 %
Player 81 won 44,52 %
Player 82 won 43,66 %
Player 83 won 42,78 %
Player 84 won 42,18 %
Player 85 won 41,32 %
Player 86 won 40,6 %
Player 87 won 39,8 %
Player 88 won 39,12 %
Player 89 won 38,56 %
Player 90 won 37,66 %
Player 91 won 36,92 %
Player 92 won 36,1 %
Player 93 won 35,36 %
Player 94 won 34,54 %
Player 95 won 33,9 %
Player 96 won 33,28 %
Player 97 won 32,5 %
Player 98 won 31,66 %
Player 99 won 31,02 %
Player 100 won 30,26 %
Player 101 won 29,48 %
Player 102 won 28,74 %
Player 103 won 27,96 %
Player 104 won 27,26 %
Player 105 won 26,44 %
Player 106 won 25,76 %
Player 107 won 25,1 %
Player 108 won 24,38 %
Player 109 won 23,7 %
Player 110 won 22,84 %
Player 111 won 22,3 %
Player 112 won 21,54 %
Player 113 won 20,76 %
Player 114 won 19,94 %
Player 115 won 19,26 %
Player 116 won 18,52 %
Player 117 won 17,74 %
Player 118 won 16,94 %
Player 119 won 16,14 %
Player 120 won 15,4 %
Player 121 won 14,72 %
Player 122 won 13,82 %
Player 123 won 13,14 %
Player 124 won 12,42 %
Player 125 won 11,72 %
Player 126 won 11,1 %
Player 127 won 10,34 %
Player 128 won 9,54 %
Player 129 won 8,86 %
Player 130 won 8,42 %
Player 131 won 7,7 %
Player 132 won 6,92 %
Player 133 won 6,2 %
Player 134 won 5,54 %
Player 135 won 4,74 %
Player 136 won 4 %
Player 137 won 3,46 %
Player 138 won 2,84 %
Player 139 won 2,24 %
Player 140 won 1,66 %
Player 141 won 1,02 %
Player 142 won 0,46 %
Player 143 won 0,14 %
Player 144 won 0 %
Player 145 won 0 %
Player 146 won 0 %

---

Of course this is far from conclusive, but still kinda interesting.

---------- Post added at 02:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

I guess technically it should only be 145 players since Tanegashima didn't play... shouldn't change the numbers too much though.