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Ichigonator is the Hollow terminator that killed Ulquiorra
Ulq in R1 was a giant hurdle for vaizard ichigo and the man makes
it even harder by going R2. regardless Ichigonator cleared that hurdle quite well until a sudden relapse in concentration which cost his horn etc etc.
so how would ichigonator fare off against the super villain Aizen?
Aizen's shikai is crazy but it's still kido based. so would ichigonator
be able to break the illusions just by having the higher reiatsu?
or do you think AIzen the possible future king is still superior to
anything we've seen so far.
I don't know what do you think?
First Ichigonator has to actually realize that he's in an illusion. This Ichigo runs purely on instinct and probably won't have the brain power to realize that he's seeing an illusion.
Also where was it stated that Aizen has a kido based shikai?
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; June 20, 2009 at 12:28 AM.
and I assume Aizen's shikai is of similar nature since it's not a normal
zanpakutou... but you are probably right about Ichigonator being more
of a beast and not being capable of thinking well...
cool ways to use as spells call kido. it can restrain people, can make fires and shoot lightning etc. so when we see a shikai that has strange properties isn't it logical to assume that this is because the zanpakutou is kido in nature? what else do you think helps it behave that way?
Well, the way I see it, all zanpakutou are either physical based, kido based, or a little mix of both.
Examples of Physical Based: Ikkaku, Hisagi, Komamura
Examples of Kido Based: Momo, Yumichika, Rangiku
Examples of a Combo: Ichigo, Urahara.
Ikkaku, Hisagi, and Komamura pretty much just rely on the physical strength of their zanpakutous, the zanpakutous don't really have special abilities (well, Ikkaku's spear can split on command, but it's actually a tri-section staff).
Momo, Yumichika, and Rangiku have kidou based zanpakutou because they all don't attack directly with their zanpakutou, but instead attack with some manifestation of their reiatsu, Momo fires balls of energy at the opponent, Yumichika makes vines that suck the enemy's reiatsu, and Rangiku's zanpakutou turns to ash/dust and attacks the enemy.
The combo of both is kind of tricky, since it helps their physical attacks by using kido based attacks. Prime examples, Ichigo and Urahara. Ichigo has GT, which can both be used as a ranged weapon, and an amplifier for his normal sword strikes. In his flashback from his Renji battle showed that in his training with Urahara, he was randomly firing off huge sword slashes, and didn't know how, this was GT of course, and Urahara countered GT with his "Cry, Benihime". Similarly, Ichigo in his fight against Ulqui in resurreccion form, kept his GT in his sword, which increased the attacking/defending power of Zangetsu. So while Zangetsu's actual ability is inherently kido based, it supplements the physical power of Zangetsu.
Anyhow, kido zanpakutou don't have to be as obvious as momo's, they just are some form of attacking the enemy with the shinigami's reiatsu, or at least that's how I see it.
Last edited by Razh; June 20, 2009 at 11:02 AM.
at this time Ichigo has no chance, because he follow his primary instinct , and any illusion of Aizen would crush him.
his senses then he'll just fall to the illusion faster than others.
you need brain power or higher reiatsu than Aizen if you want to
defeat his illusion imo. damm and to think he might have a bankai
other than his perfect illusion!
I can't remember if Aizen did that special ritual on Ichigo... If NOT, then the Illusions won't work with Hollow Ichigo II, and the Ritual doesn't seem like something Aizen can pull in a nano second, so is better to say the fight would be Aizen without Illusions vs Hollow Ichigo II.
In this case, Hollow Ichigo II would seem to have the upper hand, Fast and Brutal, Instant Regeneration, The ability to withstand insanely powerful attacks as if nothing.
Aizen in SS was faster than Bankai Ichigo, but Ichigo was partly hurt and wasn't at 100%, and at this moment everyone is faster than Bankai Ichigo >.>
Ulquiorra was MUCH faster than Bankai + Mask Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo II was MUCH faster than Ulquiorra...
as a result it would seem that Hollow Ichigo II is as fast or faster than Aizen, or so I believe.
well? is pointless to argue, as far as I can see, Aizen without his Illusions can't beat Hollow Ichigo II, there are HUGE chances that I am wrong, because neither has shown everything they can do, but instant regeneration is an ability that not many Shinigami can counter...
Ice vs Powerful Hollow Skin (only freezes the top layer of their skin, and is why unless the Ice shatters Arrancar/Hollows are very alive and well in their Ice prisons, Example? Grimjaw and Luppy with both are Espada 6, and one being MUCH weaker than the other... "YEAH HALIBEL IS ALIVE!!!")
I was going to make a LONG list, but is pointless... lets put it like this, there are no shinigami abilities (as far as we KNOW) other than their Bankai's and HAX shikai, that can actually cause enough Harm to foes with Instant regeneration (take note that INSTANT and RAPID regeneration are different grades of the same ability), as long as said targets have enough defensive abilities...
and is enough for today... cya
WHat about Aizen without his Illusions? I will leave that homework for you.
Also you seem to be confused about what the instinct is...
1. an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.
In this case the instinct is to "protect" Orihime and kill everyone else
2. a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.
a tendency and innate impulse to KILL everyone
3. a natural aptitude or gift: an instinct for making money.
A natural aptitude to find weak points in your techniques in order to kill you faster
4. natural intuitive power.
Meaning that a person trust his gut feeling aka his 6 sense, and Aizen has NO control over that one.
In short, I don't think Aizen Illusions would work that easily with Ichigo, Aizen fools your brain and gives you FAKE information, the gut and 6 sense base is to NOT trust said information.
So yeah, your statement is FLAWED... just because Hollow Ichigo II relies in his instinct doesn't mean Aizen Illusions will work well with him, on the contrary.
Last edited by Chaoswind; June 20, 2009 at 07:11 AM.
Cant agree with you chaos, even if its instinct, you follow your senses and aizen can fool them all so it doesnt matter, its not like that useless bankai of tousen, Aizen can make you feel, smell, hear, taste, aware of everything he want, you could be in a oven and aizen can make you be mentally in a flower field, Aizen would crush ichigonator.
And not to forget that Aizen is much more powerful than primera espada, so its his gigantic reiatsu,his haxed zanpakutoh, and his unknown bankai, and his overrated kidoh esxperience, damn he is one of the most complete haxed characters in bleach, And we cant forget he know things about hollows and all sort of maybe he knows how to counter a lot of hollow techniques, remember that aizen has been the leader since the very beggining
I created the term Ichigonator and spreaded it: I'm satisfied it's in wide use now!
Anyway I used this term to underline how much Ichigonator is the final thing someone see: Ulquiorra was dissected and almost carved up, Ishida was run though by tensa zangetsu and almost atomized by Ichigonator's cero.
Orihime was going to get thrown out from the tower just because of Ichigonator's reiatsu... lol
Anyway I voted that Aizen would win: he has an unbelievable powerful shikai, so powerful that the FIRST thing the captains did in fake kt was sealing him in that wall of fire. This means he has the ability to beat all of them alone, just by making them believe one thing instead of the other!
I have the opinion Aizen is no ordinary shinigami: if we think about it we don't know a thing about his past (before entering gotei 13 I mean).
Instinct isn't limited on basic senses. Aizen can't fool someone's "6th sense" with his Shikai. Like Unohana knew that something was wrong with Aizen's corpse but she dismissed it because her primary senses were fooled.
I think Aizen would have beaten Ichigonator, but his illusions wouldn't help him much.
I do not disagree with the dictionary, in the part that i dont agree is that sole instinct can pull out ichigonator out of aizen illusions, and remember that aizen was concentrating his shikai illusion under hundreds of people, lets speculate, if aizen just concentrate his shikai ability in one target it could be more powerful, but yet again lets agree with you in the 6th sense thing.
KUKUKUKU..... But lets see that famous 6th sense working, if you feel 100% with all your senses that you are suffering and burning!!!!(it could be everything but i choose fire because its Classic) like aizen could do, there is no space in time to concentrate, there is no time to react, there is no vision of where can you attack, AND! im saying this giving Ichigonator the doubt that he can Think, because i think he cant, he is just pure instinct and .....
(Pure instinct)+(Endless Pain)+(Confused senses)= I think i dont have to give an answer.
But i think that proves my point, Ichigonator would most likely get raped by Aizen. And even aizen knows everything that it has to be with ichigo. You are giving him too much credit, just because has some new features and an endless insanity. TSk unohana could use his 6th sense because she was quiet thinking the reasoning all the facts and so...
Last edited by Josear XIII; June 20, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
In my opinion the answer is yes, hypnosis can affect all 5 senses which goes with Aizen's Shikai. Not only that but Aizen's calls his ability "Complete Hypnosis", he even claims that those that have seen his ability are hypnotized and the chapters where Aizen reveals his evil plan are called "End of Hypnosis". With all this mind I have come to the conclusion that Aizen's ability is an advanced version of Hypnosis. Assuming this I'll continue with my argument.
Now then hypnosis affects animals(Chickens, mice, snakes etc.), this should be pretty basic knowledge. In fact some predators hypnotize their prey in order to survive. Just so you know a common gut instinct for animals is to not die yet hypnosis often still works on the prey. This is strange because animals use their behavorial instincts to survive, in fact some animals usually use only instincts to survive, far more then a regular human. So based on this just because you use your instincts does not make you impervious to hypnosis in any way.
This is a clear contradiction to what your claiming. Simply put just because you follow your instincts does not mean your will be safe from Aizen's "Total Hypnosis". And Ichigonator follows his instincts very closely and is very much animal-like in that aspect.
It also isn't quite correct to say that if you are instinctive it is unlikely that you will be influenced by illusions(in fact the more intiutive you are the more likely you are to be hypnotized). What is correct is to state that the more analytical/logical you are(meaning the more likely you are to consider everything and to some extent it would mean going against your instincts, ex: I want cookie, my instinct tells me to eat it, I analyze the situation and realize I'll get in lots of trouble if I do) the less likely you are to be hypnotized. And Ichigonator has never really struck me as a very analytical person.
To use a concrete example of how this all works out is this. As Chaoswind points out Ichigonator's instinct is to kill everyone and everything. In turn that means Ichigonator will have the instinct to kill everyone he sees(ex. Ulqui and Ishida he saw them both and in both cases he wanted them dead). However sight is one of the five senses that "Complete Hypnosis" controls. This in turn means that his instinct to kill what he see's will betray him.
Note: Our hypnosis is in no way exactly like Aizen's. Something that might be considered more like it would be a psychological drug but that is just as bad if not worse for your argument.
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; June 20, 2009 at 03:14 PM.