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On the current chapter discussion thread, there was this thing that was about to run hot.. Let me run it through here..
I ask, Is Blackbeard really built up to be a villain?
I feel no. He is not a villain type. He is the ultimate rival for Luffy among pirates. He is like a sworn enemy. What makes their relation more deadly than what Roger n WB had is that both Luffy and BB share common goal to be the Pirate King..
If we see how Blackbeard has acted till now.
1. He killed a crewmate on WB ship.
First off, let me put a light note that this is not a rule for "every" pirate. It most certainly was an Iron clad rule on WB's ship. But AFAIK, its not a Golden rule among pirates or anything. Blackbeard openly said that he was on WB's ship solely for the purpose of finding the Devil Fruit. This shows he was cunning and that he was a schemer. But evil? Not here..
2. Captured Ace and handed him over to Marines .
Again, this cannot be deemed as an evil act. He was again covering his ass and he anyways wanted a guy with a bounty of over 100mil. Ace was not a bad bargain, yes?
One thing that comes into mind here is his intention to take Level 6 prisoners into his team.. That was a place where Croc, Ace and even Jimbei were held. Level 6 prisoners were strong. So he wanted them in.
3. Stole WB's powers.
He took it because he could.. And it was so cool of him to do that.. After that, all those sneaky fellow otakus who were speculating that BB can have three different DF powers got an adrenaline shot..
Apart from all these, look at his attitude when he speaks to Nami (nee chan). When he said "those two won the battle" even after all they did was eat Bellamy's abuses, rep was added to BB. And then his famous speech on "Pirates' dream". Even Luffy was so struck to that man that he was listening to him without even blinking his eye. He still referred to Ace as captain. He openly said he aspired to become like WB. Many things which people wouldn't normally do.. Imagine Arlong or Don Kreig or Kuro or any low life pirates having this kind of power.. I can bet they wouldn't be even half humble as BB was..
Having said all these, I do understand these. His intention of becoming Pirate king is exactly opposite to that of Luffy. Where Luffy expresses freedom, BB expresses control. This basic thing indicates they both are North pole / South pole.
The person responsible for Ace's death is Akainu. What did you expect BB to do when Ace kept tailing him? Surrender and offer his head? If you recollect, BB never even wanted to capture Ace.. All he wanted was a 100+ mil bounty head to seal his position on Schibukai. He intended to take Luffy. But Ace found BB first.. So stop blaming BB for everything.
And about Luffy's situation. This was supposed to be WB Vs. Marines n Schibukai.. Luffy was not even supposed to be a part of this struggle. How can you even bring up Luffy's issue here?
Killing crewmate is bad, I totally buy that. But is that the reason to brand someone a major villain? When Shanks' crew member shot a bandit (Anime episode 4) in point blank, what was that? A noble thing? Remember what Shanks' pirates say about the war between pirates? Nothing is fair.
Last edited by karthikmurs; March 20, 2010 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yea, couldn't agree with you more. I mean Luffy looks up to Roger and we know how he decimated both Squardo's crew and half of Shiki's crew.
Also, how many marine fodders have the strawhat pirates killed? Remember Ennies Lobby? The one thing that's great about One Piece is that there's no clear and boring dichotomy of good and evil.
However, backstabbing a friend and killing your "father" does constitute him as a villain though. Personally, I find Akainu to be a more hateable villain than BB but hey, that's just me.
Last edited by NoLimit89; March 20, 2010 at 09:06 PM.
He's not some kind of bloodthirsty slaughterer, but not all villains have to be. He's just totally amoral, he doesn't give a damn about anyone or have any respect for human life. He takes what he wants and kills anyone in his way, which is just what happened to Thatch.
But indeed your right, Capturing Ace.. especially alive shows he's not a monster but a calculating bastard.
He was respectful to Nami (in a way) and showed that he had the dreamers heart of a pirate, it's just now we realize he'd kill his own "father" to achieve said dreams..
They are North and South poles exactly..
IMO BB can be a villain and not be Doflamingo psychopathic or Akainu Sociopathic..
Last edited by Poneglyph420; March 21, 2010 at 01:09 PM.
You know why it's a villain? Because He's the final/pre-final opponent of our hero. Period.
Just as Uriel said, he is the one harming the main hero and as such he is the villain of the Manga. You have to stop thinking as a human reading the Manga, but put youself in Luffy's shoes. In hell he will be no villain anymore. Aside from that he is clearly going against Luffy's principle and act's like all the villains he met before. Don't want to list them, I hope you have read One Piece well enough yourself.
Instead of comparing Luffy, compare Kuro or Arlong's mentality with BB's. If you don't see a huge difference, I am sorry. To me, the difference is just Oozing out..
Last edited by karthikmurs; March 21, 2010 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Doesn't change my point anyway. If you read what a villain is by definition, it's always as opposed to the hero by making troubles and obstacles to overcome. In this case, just wanting be a PK like Luffy makes him a Villain sorta. With all the plus you mention on the opening post.
I'm not talking to define it as a person and judge it by any other term than literally, which in the end is the only way to judge a character from a fictional work.
He's a twisted version of the hero. He's not beyond taking heroic actions or attitudes, but ultimately he's too dark at heart to be anything other than a villain.
Here's an quote from "tips for writers"
"This is a brilliant observation that has served me well in all my writing. (The bad guy isn't doing bad stuff so he can rub his hands together and snarl.) He may be driven by greed, neuroses, or the conviction that his cause is just, but he's driven by something not unlike the things that drive a hero."
BB is seeming to fit into the context of this quote well IMO.
I think Poneglyph defined better. Blackbeard is an Anti-Hero. Fits perfectly with the stereotype D:
It's a subjective matter, however. It's the villain for most readers because they already picked a side and a point of view. Unless that point of view (Usually defined by the main character, in this case, Luffy) changes in the history, it will be hard to not define it as villain.
I know what you try to do, but you just have to deal with the main fact: As long as Luffy has a grudge against Blackbeard, He WILL be a villain.
I think he's quite evil.
1 - Declaring the new age his age was practically a threat to the whole world
2 - Intending to sink Marineford, the symbol of peace and justice that many civilians rely to protect them.
3 - Destroying countless peoples homes back on Banaro island
True, I don't think his mentality is as evil as Arlongs say, and Kuro (just as evil as Crocodile) was pretty cold, but BB is definately villainous.
The only thing that gets me, is IF BB had taken Luffy in, how would the rest of this plan of his have worked? As different as a Revolutionary army vs Marineford scenario could have looked...
Ace's death is what separates BB from other rivals such (Law, Kid). This trait also causes BB to be the only person in this series who is both a villain and a rival, singling BB out as the most important antagonist right now.