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Thread: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

  1. #1
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Queenofmuffins's Avatar
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    'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    In the manga I translate, this line comes up:

    Men are “Koseki”
    男は “戸籍”
    Women are “bodies”, aren’t they?
    女は”体”でしょう

    Since Koseki means ‘family register’, and refers to a document kept in a municipal government office and which records the name, birthdates, ect of every Japanese citizen. I have absolutely no idea what he means by referring to men in this way.
    Any ideas? o_O

  2. #2
    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Meriken's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    The 女は体でしょう part implies: The only thing men look for in a woman is their body (looks). So the 男は戸籍 part means: The only thing women look for in a man is their family name/wealth, etc. It's sort of worded like a Japanese saying (ex. 餅は餅屋) which I find amusing. I think a non-literal translation would be best here.

  3. #3
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Queenofmuffins's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriken View Post
    I think a non-literal translation would be best here.
    Thanks.

    So maybe something like.... "Men are only attractive because of their wealth. Women are only attractive because of their beauty"?

    The problem is, he mentions Koseki again a few lines later, so I'm not sure how to translate that either. Here's the transcript I originally had;

    Men are “Koseki”
    男は “戸籍”
    Women are “bodies”, aren’t they?
    女は”体”でしょう

    Stop it!! She...
    やめろよ!! 彼女はっ…っ

    So, you’ll pay…?
    じゃあ、君が払う…?

    Makoto-kun…?
    マコト君…?

    Of course…Since the stuff you sell isn’t “koseki”!
    もちろん…君が売るものは”戸籍”じゃあないよぉ

  4. #4
    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Meriken's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Well, the second appearance of 戸籍 actually makes it easier to translate the first two lines. Since they give you the word 売る (sell) you might as well use it: "Men sell their wealth, Women sell their bodies."

    もちろん…君が売るものは”戸籍”じゃあないよぉ
    It's a little hard to understand because I don't know what's going on visually. But I think the character is chiding the other for not having "wealth" to sell so he can get women. Perhaps he has something else, an ulterior motive? I can't tell exactly. If this doesn't make sense, then post a link to the page and I might be able to come up with something else.

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Queenofmuffins's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Okay, here's a link. Hope it helps. ^^

    http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/35044/31

    For context; as far as I can tell Makoto knew a girl who borrowed money from a loan shark, and the shark is relying on him to pay back all the money.

  6. #6
    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Meriken's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Okay, the two evil guys are basically saying: Since the girl can't pay back the money, I guess she'll just have to pay us through "other means." Women sell their bodies, men sell their wealth, so I guess we'll just have to...(obvious implication). The good guy says stop, and the bad guy goes "Then you want to pay it...? You aren't gonna be paying with your 'wealth,' of course..."

    The page itself makes sense to me, but I guess I would have to go back and read the whole series to get what the bad guy is cleverly referring to as "wealth." Or maybe their true objective hasn't been revealed yet? But with the good guy's expression, it seems like he knows what they're talking about. Either way, keeping 「戸籍」 as "wealth" would be the best bet for a translation, I think...

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner haewoon's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    In this context, 戸籍 is different from the 'wealth'.
    戸籍 is a kind of census registration.
    Therefore, "a man, who have debt, sells 戸籍" means that he becomes one´s adoptive son, and is forced to get a new loan.
    (By being adoptive son, his credit record becomes clean.)

    Quote Quote:
    戸籍を売るというのは、誰かの養子になって氏名を変えることで融資の際のチェックをくぐり抜け、新たな借金をするというもの。

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    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Meriken's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Quote Quote:
    In this context, 戸籍 is different from the 'wealth'.
    戸籍 is a kind of census registration.
    Therefore, "a man, who have debt, sells 戸籍" means that he becomes one´s adoptive son, and is forced to get a new loan.
    (By being adoptive son, his credit record becomes clean.)
    You can't include all of this info in an actual translation. There's no English equivalent readily available (there is no "family register" concept in the English-speaking world, the census is more about population) and because of the saying-like nature you need to keep it concise. With "wealth" you sacrifice accuracy, but don't need to explain a foreign concept, and the idea behind his words are easily understood.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner haewoon's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Yes, you are absolutely right. All information I provided cannot be put in that cut.
    However, for us understanding correct concept is as important as correct translation.
    I have no experience of translation, and I'm not good at English.
    Though I cannot choose a good English sentence for this situation, but all you can.
    Therefore, I explained the context of this situation.

    The reason that 'wealth' is not proper in this situation is like following.

    In Japan, for loan companies, the final means to be paid off is '男は “戸籍” 女は”体”'.
    It means, men and women have no money any more at that time.
    For loan company, cash is more preferred to 戸籍 or 体, because it's simple.
    Thus, if men and women have even 1 dollar, a loan company do not choose the final means.
    When a company does not have a hope of be paid off a debt, finally the company choose "戸籍 or 体."

    Therefore, I think that we should translate "戸籍" into a valuable thing of a person who has no money.
    For example, labor power or internal organs... and so on.

    Thank you for comment, and thank you for reading.
    Last edited by haewoon; August 09, 2009 at 08:18 PM.

  10. #10
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Queenofmuffins's Avatar
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    Re: 'Men are "Koseki"' help! >.<

    Thanks for the info, you two. ^^
    Unfortunately, the chapters already been released, so I can't really change my translation. :O

    But thanks Hawoon for your explanation. It made interesting reading. ^^

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