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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
So this the thread to discuss about the Ninja's leve in Naruto.
This is the perfect place for statement like : "Naruto is Kage-level" or "Ino is academy student level".
So, first let's set the levels. From the manga, that's the level that are presented by Sarutobi :
So, that's make 5 levels.
For the purpose of bringing more debates, we could add two other levels : "Special Jounin" and "Sannin-Level".
So, here are the 7 possible ranks :
1. Academy Student
This is for the ninjas that aren't even worthy of being called Ninja.
This is for the beginning Ninja, or ninjas that can't possibly lead a team (a requirement for the next level.)
This is for the average Ninja, who have a good knowledge in jutsu and his able to make decision and lead a team.
4. Special Jounin
This is for those jounin that are specialist in one domain (ex: Ambus are expert in stealth and assassination, Ibiki is expert in interrogation, Ebisu is an exceptionnal teacher,etc).
They might not be full-fledge Jounin, but they're good enough in one domain to have the "Jounin" rank.
This is for the elite Ninja, who have shown skills in jutsu and are among the strongest of the village.
This is for those who have skills that could compare to the three Sannins (Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru).
This is for those that are worthy of being called "Kage", the strongest.
Note: S-rank criminal was not introduced as a rank, so please refrain to use it as a rank in the debates if possible.
Note : Please, bare in mind that using the "Sannin-level" can get confusing as the three Sannins were strong enough to be Kage. Please refrain from using that level if possible.
Last edited by THM Nindo; February 16, 2009 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Clarifications
see, Gaara is a kage, but the databook says he is lower than lots of jounins out there
take itachi, he is a jounin but he is kage level at Jiraiya's side
but Tsunade is hokage, and she is a sannin
I guess konohamaru is a very good example of how levels are irregular in narutoverse
Special jonnin is not a position above that of jonnin though. Special jonnin specialize in a specific area ( closet pervert in training, ibiki in torture and interrogation) but probably lack in other areas. In a way a jonnin is above a special jonnin.
Also I dont think sannin should be below kage (or in the ranks at all lol). All three sannin were considered for hokage and two of them were actually offered the position. Also needlessly to say, any sannin could fight at the level if not on par with any previous kage (note that I didnt say win), so all the more reason not to put kage and sannin on diferent categories.
For examble, you must have a lot of skills to be brought into Ambu or Root. Same thing goes for the interrogation squad, the decoding squad, etc.
So, maybe you're not as polyvalent than the others, but you're a pro in your domain.
As for the Sannin level, I totally agree.
I didn't want to put Sannin level at all, but it was so often used in the debates, that I felt I have to put it in.
And I agree that the three Sannin were probably stronger than a lot of Kage (Orochimaru did defeat the 3rd, and Jiraiya was even stronger)
That's why I put Sannin level as "someone whose skills could be compared to one the Sannin".
Gaara, two years after being beaten by Naruto, became Kazekage.
But, Naruto, after his two years of training with Jiraiya was far away from being strong enough to be the Hokage.
And, stats isn't all there is.
Lee stats are probably awful (because he must have 0 in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Sealing jutsu), but that won't prevent him from being really strong (and probably stronger than some Jonins).
Last edited by THM Nindo; February 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Last edited by Belisar; February 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM.
Also I dont think the exact point of the thread is only to discuss the literal titles of characters but also to discuss what their actual skill is. On another point itachi was NOT a jonnin at any point in his life. He was made a chunnin, later on entered the anbu and eventually became an anbu captain(although I am not sure if itachi went from chunnin to anbu captain directly).
And how exactly is konohamaru irregular?
Isn't that sort of confusing though? Given that any sannin has the skill to be a kage, wouldnt' anyone who is comparable to the sannin be at a kage level?Quote:
Last edited by kkck; February 16, 2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
People have been using the "Sannin-level" for too long in the debates now.
And they won't stop using it, so that's why I put it in.
As for where it should be... (under or above Kage), well, Kage is THE strongest of the village, so I had no choice but to put it under.
But right now, with the few good character left, if a Ninja is at Sannin-level, there's high change he's Kage level.
Again, all depends of the village there from.
Right now we are all basing this on Konoha's level.
For example, the Kage from the Sand (Gaara) might probably be beaten by a few Ninjas from Konoha.
And we must not forget that the actual level of a ninja doesn't necesseraly reflect his skills (ex : Naruto and Sasuke are still genins).
So, even if Gaara is Kage level, he is probably, IMO, the weakest of the 5 Kages, especially that he must have lose a bit of power without the Bijuu.
Is there someone who can be compared to the sannin but is not kage level though? I feel that adding that will arise unnesesary discussion...
Last edited by kkck; February 16, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Every week we get people saying things like : "Ino and Tenten aren't worth sh*t" and things like "Naruto is Sannin level, but if he beats Pain he will definitely be Kage-level".
This is mostly discuss in the Prediction thread and shouldn't really be discussed there, so I though about creating a special thread for those discussion. That's the place to discuss those things.
So, instead of just "moving" those discussion to the "Hangout thread" where they are lost forever, the Mods will be able to move them in this thread, where the debates can go on and on and on. (Message for Mods)
Now a good example of a discussion :
Sakura is chunnin level right now.
In your opinion, should she be Jonin level?
My opinon : Yes, she should. She crashed Pain's summon with one single blow, without a sweat. And we saw Ambu having to rely on really strong Ninjutsu against those same kind of summons.
With her force and her skills in medical jutsu, IMO, she should be Jonin level. Maybe even an Elite Medical Jonin. She's the best in the world after Tsunade and Kabuto (Shizune is dead...).
But, she still have to grow before having the skills to match one of the Sannin or one of the Kage. But, she will definitely do it. She will surpass Tsunade before the end.
Last edited by THM Nindo; February 16, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
As for being brought into ANBU, you may only be brought in for you skills. It's also never mentioned that all ANBU are Jonnin they can be Chunnin as well. For example, Sakura could be brought into ANBU for her medical skills, or Kiba for his tracking skills. ANBU captains however, from what we have seen are extremely powerful an intelligent individuals, like Kakashi, Itachi, and Yamato.
As for the Sannin level, there is no such thing as there were only 3 Sannin and will only ever be 3 Sannin. The Sannin were called Sannin because they were ackwoledged by Hanzou, nothing more nothing less. These Sannin, on many occsions have shown themselves to be as powerful if not more powerful than Kages.
And a Kage isn't always the "strongest" ninja in their village, it just so happens that more often than not the Kage is the strongest, in the case of the Ragikage, he isn't the strongest, his brother is, also Gaara's father was probably weaker than he was thanks to Gaara's Biju.
If it was the case were the Kage was the strongest ninja in the village there would have been no reason for Tsuande to become Kage because a strong ninja like Gai or Kakashi could of filled the position. Things like experience, intelligence, and certain techniques (like great healing abilities) come into play as well. You could make a strong argument that Kakashi or Gai could defeat Tsuande in combat, but neither of them can do things she can as Hokage.
As far as stats go, I certainly agree with you. We have to remeber that things like elemental advantages over your opponent, Kekkai Genkai, and just your general abilites can help you defeat an enemy who has higher stats in the Data Book.
As for the akura thing, I dont know whether you were joking or not but I am going to respond anyway. Sakura is not a gennin she is a chunnin. Sakura has displayed intelligence and strenth but I still think she is a reasonable distance away from being a full fledge jonnin. She could be a special jonnin given her medical expertice though.
BTW how do I upload pictures and images to my posts?
Last edited by kkck; February 16, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Other than that, I agree with your assessment. I think she's definitely due for a promotion to Jounin. And Naruto should definitely be promoted to jounin after all the things he's done against Pain.
Last edited by Natoma; February 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
And I kind of agree with you. She might still lack experience to be called a Jonin, but in Medical jutsu, she's definitely Jonin level.
That kind of proof what you guys were saying, that Elite Jounin was below Jounin.
But then, that means that the Ambu's and Root's shinobi aren't that great then...
If you want to upload image you need to have them somewhere on Internet I think (if there's a way to do it from your computer, I don't know how.
Use this command [IMG]...[\IMG] replace the ... by the URL of the image and that's it.
If you want a good example, just press "Quote" on my first post in this thread and look at the command line I put for the image.
You can create an account at Photobucket and store all your image there before using them in your post (that's what I do).
Last edited by THM Nindo; February 16, 2009 at 01:46 PM.
Thanks for the info, it really helps. I always have problems with that because it would be so much easier to explain some of my posts if I had images to go with them lol.