How strong are the Vizards?

[wooticus]

i really can't clearly say who strong these vaizards will really we. i don't think that al of them will be above the level of, let's say shunsui. can't really imagine hiyori beating the shit out of starrk.

but i think the strenght of the vaizards lies in the synchronisation of shinigami and hollow powers. and that is some category they succeed aizen, even if aizen has already gained hollow powers, too. but it CAN'T be, that aizen perfeclty controls hollow powers after a few month, that would be absolute crap. the vaizard had 100 years to perfectly combine shinigami and hollow strength, and this is the point where the power of hybridisation lies. If you become vaizard just to use hollow powers and forget about shinigami powers than you probably won't become much more than.. yes, a hollow.

that's the reason why ichigo still has much potential left. In his neo ichigo form against ulquiorra he gained access to his full hollow powers and added the strenght of tensa zangetsu, his bankai. but i don't think this powers were synchronized.
but well, it's not that easy to describe using ichigo, because he is someone who doesn't gain any powers but strentgh and speed.

But the other vaizards may like the espada all gain some special power.

For me the fight im waiting for is the one including hacchi. he surely won't do any swordfight, but he had 100 years of time to try to combine hollow powers (cero and so on) with kidou. this just sounds fuckin awesome.
bakudou #101, black cero storm. who cares about starrk?

[En Yang Ji]

It's too early to really tell how strong they are. I think the Vizard VC's are around Byakuya's level, because I don't think Kubo is going to make them that talented or experienced as VC's (except Hacchi). I definitely can see them being on Byakuya's level considering a couple things:

- They each might have a unique hollow ability
- They could possibly use Kido, and shunpo techniques non-vizards can't use
- They may even have a second hollow form like Ichigo, though I doubt it

[monkey D luffy]

i think every vc has bankai for at least 50 years now and they mastered it, or almost. i mean cmon they got urahara for crying out loud! he basiclly made ichigo achieve bankai in 3 days and i assume he couldve done the same thing for the vices. hachi probably mastered kidou with the help of tessei. all of them mastered basic vaizard mode and maybe achieved ressuraction. i bet shinji is at the very least at yama's level while the others are flactuating between kumamura (weve seen that he is quite strong i put him as a middle tier captain) to unohana but only when they release, without releasing shikai i doubt they are stronger then masked ichigo. without seeing too much i can assume that shinji is close to ichigonators level, and that its slightly above yamaji.

[Tsukisama]

Remember that this thread is focusing on the relative power of the vizards specifically; so be sure that your posts relate directly to that objective.

While this thread is not intended to be a ranking thread, if you do post some sort of ranking, remember that all ranking lists require sufficient explanation beyond the order of the list to remain in the thread as is the same in any other discussion thread. ~ Tsukisama

[drakend]

Vaizards cannot be fodder, otherwise their existence would be meaningless. I think they will utterly destroy the top three arrancars, who are clearly superior to most captains with the exception, perhaps, of Aizen, Shunsui and Ukitake. Too bad Wonderweiss is there, along with other vastroode arrancars most likely, so the sides of the battle will turn in favor of Aizen again. There is a strong hint towards the existence of an hidden vastroode arrancar army: Aizen is very sure of himself, to the point he said he won't have to move a finger in order to win. He cannot have forgotten about the Vaizards, so he said that phrase taking the Vaizards into account already!!!
The only possible alternative is that Wonderweiss will own evreyone, but that's just too much insane to be true!!!

[forumsforums]

THat is not how things work. Obviously byakuya has much more potential than any vizard VC given that he is royalty and he became a captain and they didn't. WHo cares if he was younger than they were/ Look at aizen, he is much younger than yama yet his strength is pretty close. Ur argument fails!!

THe VC vizards are about soifon's level. THe captain vizards are between byakuya's levcel and shunsui. ANd shinji being possibly tied with shunsui

my argument most certainly does not fail.

all we haven't seen byakuya fight any really strong people. just renji, ichigo, and the 7th espada. so you can't really say how strong byakuya is anyways.

and who says that those vaizard didn't have potential? just because they weren't captain level back then? they were vc's when byakuya was a child. a CHILD.

he was not a child prodigy like gin or hitsugaya, so my argument stands.

edit: and if shinji is only as strong as shunsui then that completely defeats the purpose of these characters.

if none of them are stronger than ww or the no 1 espada then they serve no purpose. so for them to even be necessary right now some of them have to be stronger than shunsui. and ALL of the have to be stronger than byaukya and soi fon.

and to whoever said they were about soi fon's level. if that's the case then they can't even beat barragan. making they're entrance even MORE meaningless. if that's the case the best they could do is kill hallibel.

[Eddy01741]

Just the way I see it (completely unsubstantiated, so it's just a prediction with little or no evidence):

Ex-VC vizards are low captain level, possibly lower-mid captain level, at worst they are upper VC level (for all we know, they coulda been POS VCs back in the day like Omaeda is now)

Ex-Captain Vizards are mid-upper captain level, possibly upper, but possibly mid captain level at the same time.

To sum my opinion up:
Upper VC<=Ex-VC Vizard<=Mid Captain
Mid Captain<=Ex-Captain Vizard<=Upper Captain

[kkck]

This is my take:

Before getting hollow powers the former captains were at least average captain level, which is to say no weaker than the current gotei 13.

Risa fought alongside the former captains and was strong enough to not be in the way. In other words she was above the average VC level. As for mashiro, I have no comment other than that she was at least regular VC level. Hiyori seemed to be below average VC level though.

The thing with hachi is debatable but I would think even before he got his hollow powers he was much stronger than a VC and was actually closer to a captain.

The vizards bankai before hollow powers were just as haxed as any current captain bankai(throwing random chunks of heaven, nukes, trillions of blades, armored giants....).

The vizards without mask were capable of handling bankai hollow ichigo. The former captain required a mask when ichigo used cero but to be fair, he did not even release his sword.

Now, IMHO the boost a vizard gets from putting their mask on is at least as strong as the boost a hollow gets from getting it's mask removed. Considering what we have seen so far, the boost someone gets from putting on a mask has been more than considerable. Given what we have seen from ichigo, it would seem as if putting on a mask provides a boost in itself comparable to bankai. Ichigo is a newbie in comparison to the vizards, so perhaps the boost they get is even stronger.

[Raizen]

my argument most certainly does not fail.

all we haven't seen byakuya fight any really strong people. just renji, ichigo, and the 7th espada. so you can't really say how strong byakuya is anyways.

and who says that those vaizard didn't have potential? just because they weren't captain level back then? they were vc's when byakuya was a child. a CHILD.

he was not a child prodigy like gin or hitsugaya, so my argument stands.

edit: and if shinji is only as strong as shunsui then that completely defeats the purpose of these characters.

if none of them are stronger than ww or the no 1 espada then they serve no purpose. so for them to even be necessary right now some of them have to be stronger than shunsui. and ALL of the have to be stronger than byaukya and soi fon.

and to whoever said they were about soi fon's level. if that's the case then they can't even beat barragan. making they're entrance even MORE meaningless. if that's the case the best they could do is kill hallibel.

The argument that byakuya was a child and thus he is weaker thatn the vizards fail because
1- age is not really a factor
2- Byakuya is royalty and has SP higher than most
3- Look at aizen, he was probably a child when yama was a shinigami and yet his powers probably rivals yama

The Vc vizards are clearly inferior to most captains. First off, I doubt they even attained bankai. Remember that not everyone can attain bankai, no matter how much u train.

AS for being as strong as shunsui, shunsui is one of the strongest captains. Evne though he was cheap-shotted he is okay

[forumsforums]

The argument that byakuya was a child and thus he is weaker thatn the vizards fail because
1- age is not really a factor
2- Byakuya is royalty and has SP higher than most
3- Look at aizen, he was probably a child when yama was a shinigami and yet his powers probably rivals yama

The Vc vizards are clearly inferior to most captains. First off, I doubt they even attained bankai. Remember that not everyone can attain bankai, no matter how much u train.

AS for being as strong as shunsui, shunsui is one of the strongest captains. Evne though he was cheap-shotted he is okay

of age has some factor. potential is nice but it takes TIME to reach that potential.

and since when does royalty automatically mean strong? ganjyu was royalty too, but he was weak. his brother wasn't too strong either (he wasn't weak, but he wasn't TOO strong)

as far as aizen and yama go, yama has probably been at his limit for a long long time, so aizen has had a lot of time to reach the same level, however byakuya hasn't had that much time.

and besides, logically byakuya should not have more potential than they do. maybe BEFORE they gained vaizard powers he had more potential, but once they broke the boundaries their potential should have increased.

so, they should be stronger than byakuya.

and once again, if they are NOT. then they're pointless. and if they're pointless then so is ichigo and the entire focus of this series.

[kkck]

Ganju was weak only in comparison to anyone VC and above. He could hold his ground against seated officers as he showed when he fought yumichika(he could not really keep up with yumichika and won thanks to a trick but seeing that should be enough to suggest he is on seated officers level). Now, seeing the flashback involving him and kains death, I would say he is at most 45 years old. Not nearly enough time to reach his potential. I do want to point out ganju is remarkably strong for someone who has yet to get formal training(academy for instance).

---

As for byakuya vs vizards:
Byakuya currently is one of the strongest captains(with only yama, kyoraku, ukitake and unohana being stronger). He has above average mastery of every shinigami art and has great versatility in a wide variety of attacks.

Given that, I would say byakuya COULD be stronger than the vizards as long as they do not put their masks on(we really have no idea of their actual skill). The mask, being a powerup comparable or even stronger than bankai, just changes things too much.

[En Yang Ji]

The argument that byakuya was a child and thus he is weaker thatn the vizards fail because
1- age is not really a factor
2- Byakuya is royalty and has SP higher than most
3- Look at aizen, he was probably a child when yama was a shinigami and yet his powers probably rivals yama

The Vc vizards are clearly inferior to most captains. First off, I doubt they even attained bankai. Remember that not everyone can attain bankai, no matter how much u train.

AS for being as strong as shunsui, shunsui is one of the strongest captains. Evne though he was cheap-shotted he is okay

- Byakuya may have had more reiastu than normal shingami, but that doesn't make him stronger than the vizard VCs. Having more reiastu just speeds up his growth a bit.

- Byakuya would have to have grown a lot faster to catch up to the vizard VC. There's no way we can say for sure if Byakuya is stronger than them. The vizard VC could of been really talented, had large reiastu and had other advantages. There's basically no info on them.

- Aizen is different. Who know's who he is and how long he's been that strong. Imo he has an extremely large potential, is very experienced and is a genius, so that would explain why he's so strong.

[Ozehro]

hmmmm some vaizards are awesome and some I'm not interested in.
but yeah they should be pretty good overall I guess.

[Onomatopoeia]

If I had to make a bet I'd say that Shinji is a bit weaker then Aizen who is in turn a bit weaker then Yama. But the rest of the VZ captains are either Shunsui level or a little less. That's just pure opinion though.

[kkck]

I still think aizen is stronger than the vizards though. He has actual mastery of every shinigami art, he has the intelligence, the vision, the sheer raw power(stopped ichigo's bankai with a finger and sent grimmjow to his knees with reiatsu alone) and most importantly the neverfading smile which lets you know you are about to get pawned.