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Thread: Bleach Plot Holes

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Bleach Plot Holes

    - This thread is pretty much just to try to come up with a way to explain the big jumps in power that Kubo didn't give any explanation of.

    I guess I'll try to explain Kenpachi's, and Ichigo's .

    -- I think the best way to explain why Kenpachi became so strong a month after the SS arc is Ishida's analogy: http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...9/page016.html

    Maybe Kenpachi still hasn't learned how to fully tap into his large reiastu reserve. Ichigo and Kenpachi seem to be horrible at controlling their reiastu and at kido. So Kenpachi may have just learned how to tap into it more. It's still a pretty large jump in power, but it's the best explanation I can think of.

    There's also the possibility that Kenpachi and his zanpakatou stopped damaging each other's power. Or Kenpachi could have learned how to add his zanpakatou reiastu to his own like Ichigo did and he was just holding back against Nnoitora. It may even be a combination of these three explanations.

    Kenpachi's reiastu being stronger than Ichigo may make sense if we consider a couple different things:

    - Even for Ichigo it took a long time to extend his time wearing the mask and mastering it: http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...9/page010.html

    -Ichigo may not have fully mastered the mask, so the increase in reiastu may not be as large as it could have been when he fought Grimmjaw.




    -- I think the reason bankai Ichigo was able to fight evenly with an unreleased Ulquiorra after fighting Grimmjaw is his growing instinct:

    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...0/page013.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...0/page014.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...1/page010.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...1/page016.html


    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...0/page007.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...5/page016.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...5/page017.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...5/page020.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...0/page016.html


    It seems like Ichigo deepened his resolve using his instinct. Sharpening his resolve seems to be Ichigo's way of tapping more into his reiastu reserves.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 16, 2009 at 07:09 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    EEEERRR kenpachi did not got a power up, he was that strong from the beggining, do you seriously think that kenpachi who was already captain at the time urahara was made captain, 100 year ago in pendulum arc would not be able to grasp his reiatsu? You gotta be kidding me.

    No one still get that kenpachi was playing with ichigo, in a very way the same that Hizoka does with gon in hunterxhunter, he could have killed him first glance, but he wants him to mature and have some epic fights. But every one goes with "ichigo was stronger than kenpachi in shikai" BS. Meaby now he would go all out on ichigo from the beggining in a new fight.

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    Scanlator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member L0ki's Avatar
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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    I thought the reason for Kenpachi's powerup was "lol I haz 2 arms to swing this thingy"

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    By and far Ichigo has gotten most if not all the unexplained powerups (or powerdowns). You could make a thread just about Ichigo's power fluctuations.

    I also am not seeing the Ken power up, so he used two hands, naturally, more power. Why couldn't Ichigo do squat to Noitora, well, myself and many others think it's because 1) he was exhausted from fighting Grimmjow, and 2) he was powered down since the SS arc for unknown reasons (either, a plothole plotkai, or some reason that Kubo will explain later).
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Sweaty Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by Josear XIII View Post
    EEEERRR kenpachi did not got a power up, he was that strong from the beggining, do you seriously think that kenpachi who was already captain at the time urahara was made captain, 100 year ago in pendulum arc would not be able to grasp his reiatsu? You gotta be kidding me.

    No one still get that kenpachi was playing with ichigo, in a very way the same that Hizoka does with gon in hunterxhunter, he could have killed him first glance, but he wants him to mature and have some epic fights. But every one goes with "ichigo was stronger than kenpachi in shikai" BS. Meaby now he would go all out on ichigo from the beggining in a new fight.
    Kenpachi was a captain a hundred years ago? I thought it was another Kenpachi.

    @Loki: Kenpachi was a lot stronger than he was during his fight with Ichigo, when he was fighting Nnoitora. Even before using 2 hands he was using a lot more power than before.




    EDIT: Sorry if I sounded rude. I just realised I sound like an ass in some of my post...I'm really bad at communicating with people and I'm usually blunt, so it may come off as me being rude. Most of the time I try really hard not to be rude. So, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 16, 2009 at 07:13 PM.

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    Scanlator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member L0ki's Avatar
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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    @Loki: Kenpachi was a lot stronger than he was during his fight with Ichigo, when he was fighting Nnoitora. Even before using 2 hands he was using a lot more power than before.
    Yep, but that was because of Noitra. His tough hide forced him to swing harder and harder, that's all there is to it. It's not an unexplained powerup, Ken said so himself. So is the kendopachi thingy. The fact that they don't seem like logical explanations is a completely different matter.

    This is Bleach, a manga devoid of plot and logic, love it or drop it.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    You could be right, but Kenpachi holding back that much wouldn't make sense to me. If he was always that strong he could have fought Ichigo evenly without taking off the eyepatch.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Maybe Kenpachi still hasn't learned how to fully tap into his large reiastu reserve. Ichigo and Kenpachi seem to be horrible at controlling their reiastu and at kido. So Kenpachi may have just learned how to tap into it more. It's still a pretty large jump in power, but it's the best explanation I can think of.
    No, I don't think that's the case. The databooks, for one list him as having a 100 in the reiatsu stat, which I take to mean he is able to use the full force of his spirit's reiatsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    There's also the possibility that Kenpachi and his zanpakatou stopped damaging each other's power.
    This I think is a valid possibility, to an extent. I don't think the opposition of their reiatsu has stopped entirely, but I do theorize that in asking his zanpakuto's name and crying out that he wanted to become stronger, the path for the possibility of his zanpakuto having a spirit has opened up in his mind. Where before he would have scoffed if someone asked him if he believed his zanpakuto had a spirit, now he would say something like "I dunno." And I think this has lessened the opposition between his and his sword's reiatsu. However, I don't think it will ever stop entirely until he takes the last step and finally meets and learns about his zanpakuto spirit.

    However, the equally big reason, I feel, for Ichigo being able to beat Kenpachi in that clash, is that Zangetsu was in a sense taking the wheel at that moment. He was going to his limit to make Ichigo win that bout, even doing something not part of his typical abilities in stopping his bleeding to the utmost of his capabilities, and I believe he was able to draw out much more of Ichigo's reiatsu than Ichigo could have done on his own. Add that on top of Zangetsu's main ability of building reiatsu up in the blade, and it was probably just barely enough to beat Kenpachi in that clash.

    Of course, even assuming Kenpachi and his zanpakuto were more at odds with each other back then, had Kenpachi used a two-handed swing I have no doubt he would have won the clash.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    -- I think the reason bankai Ichigo was able to fight evenly with an unreleased Ulquiorra after fighting Grimmjaw is his growing instinct:

    It seems like Ichigo deepened his resolve using his instinct. Sharpening his resolve seems to be Ichigo's way of tapping more into his reiastu reserves.
    It is possible that Ichigo has gotten stronger just from gaining resolve in his battle experiences, but I don't think that's the case. I think that Shirosaki's presence inside him has grown ("I don't know if it's because I've become more like a hollow, or you've become more human..."). And I like to wonder if Orihime healing him has had something to do with that. Ichigo's first unexplained powerup was after Orihime resurrected him, and he suddenly could more or less hold his ground against Grimmjow while using bankai (something he couldn't do in either of his confrontations before), and he was able to hold his mask presumably for multiple minutes. Then, after Nnoitra kicked him around in his exhausted state and Kenpachi showed up, Orihime healed him to full strength again. And when he fights Ulquiorra, he's suddenly able to not get his ass kicked by him either, and Ichigo hints that he may be keeping up with him better because he's become more like a hollow. Then when he fights with his mask, he's able to regenerate it when damaged. I wonder if perhaps whatever Aizen did to Orihime has caused her to artificially strengthen the presence of Shirosaki inside Ichigo when she's used Souten Kishun on him. Of course, it's also possible that just being in HM is what has caused his hollow's presence to grow over time, but you never know.

    People also feel that Ichigo has gotten weaker since he was in SS, and that may well be the case to some extent. Where he was fighting alongside Zangetsu in his soul before, now Shirosaki has overtaken him and Ichigo is all alone, occasionally fighting with what he sees as the borrowed power of a being who wishes for Ichigo to become weak, unlike Zangetsu who tries to make him stronger. Without the guiding light of Zangetsu shining brightly in his heart and mind, Ichigo's only companion in the dark is one who taunts him and hates him, and he's left to find resolve and spiritual strength in the most hopeless of situations all on his own. So it would make sense that this might have weakened him spiritually.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by JP_Russell View Post
    No, I don't think that's the case. The databooks, for one list him as having a 100 in the reiatsu stat, which I take to mean he is able to use the full force of his spirit's reiatsu.


    This I think is a valid possibility, to an extent. I don't think the opposition of their reiatsu has stopped entirely, but I do theorize that in asking his zanpakuto's name and crying out that he wanted to become stronger, the path for the possibility of his zanpakuto having a spirit has opened up in his mind. Where before he would have scoffed if someone asked him if he believed his zanpakuto had a spirit, now he would say something like "I dunno." And I think this has lessened the opposition between his and his sword's reiatsu. However, I don't think it will ever stop entirely until he takes the last step and finally meets and learns about his zanpakuto spirit.

    However, the equally big reason, I feel, for Ichigo being able to beat Kenpachi in that clash, is that Zangetsu was in a sense taking the wheel at that moment. He was going to his limit to make Ichigo win that bout, even doing something not part of his typical abilities in stopping his bleeding to the utmost of his capabilities, and I believe he was able to draw out much more of Ichigo's reiatsu than Ichigo could have done on his own. Add that on top of Zangetsu's main ability of building reiatsu up in the blade, and it was probably just barely enough to beat Kenpachi in that clash.

    Of course, even assuming Kenpachi and his zanpakuto were more at odds with each other back then, had Kenpachi used a two-handed swing I have no doubt he would have won the clash.



    It is possible that Ichigo has gotten stronger just from gaining resolve in his battle experiences, but I don't think that's the case. I think that Shirosaki's presence inside him has grown ("I don't know if it's because I've become more like a hollow, or you've become more human..."). And I like to wonder if Orihime healing him has had something to do with that. Ichigo's first unexplained powerup was after Orihime resurrected him, and he suddenly could more or less hold his ground against Grimmjow while using bankai (something he couldn't do in either of his confrontations before), and he was able to hold his mask presumably for multiple minutes. Then, after Nnoitra kicked him around in his exhausted state and Kenpachi showed up, Orihime healed him to full strength again. And when he fights Ulquiorra, he's suddenly able to not get his ass kicked by him either, and Ichigo hints that he may be keeping up with him better because he's become more like a hollow. Then when he fights with his mask, he's able to regenerate it when damaged. I wonder if perhaps whatever Aizen did to Orihime has caused her to artificially strengthen the presence of Shirosaki inside Ichigo when she's used Souten Kishun on him. Of course, it's also possible that just being in HM is what has caused his hollow's presence to grow over time, but you never know.

    People also feel that Ichigo has gotten weaker since he was in SS, and that may well be the case to some extent. Where he was fighting alongside Zangetsu in his soul before, now Shirosaki has overtaken him and Ichigo is all alone, occasionally fighting with what he sees as the borrowed power of a being who wishes for Ichigo to become weak, unlike Zangetsu who tries to make him stronger. Without the guiding light of Zangetsu shining brightly in his heart and mind, Ichigo's only companion in the dark is one who taunts him and hates him, and he's left to find resolve and spiritual strength in the most hopeless of situations all on his own. So it would make sense that this might have weakened him spiritually.
    - I'm not sure if it's a correct translation or not, but it says here Kenpachi has a zero in the kido/reiastu category: http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?t=23731

    - That's a pretty good explanation. That might explain some what, why Ichigo turned into that new hollow form.

    - What do you think about Hitsugaya? I thought it was kind of weird that he couldn't harm an unreleased 10th espada with his shikai, but a couple days later he's able to survive a battle with the released 3rd espada, with his bankai.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 16, 2009 at 03:48 PM.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Well, he had elemental neutralization against Halibel. And bankai is supposed to be 10x stronger than shikai when mastered (not saying he's mastered bankai, as I think he has huge potential, just too young ATM). But yeah, I do find it a little wierd that his shikai can't do squat to Yammi, and his first ice attack vs. Luppi was easily countered, but then he manages to hold off Halibel for a good amount of time.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    The only thing I can think of to explain that, is Halibel was holding back.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Or she was just dumb to think that she could overwhelm Hitsu with her water attacks instead of going for physical attacks like she did to the ice clone.

    But I do agree, we're bound to see some kind of super powerful ultimate water attack. I mean, Hitsu basically told us it would happen when he said that Halibel was waiting for the atmosphere to become more dense so she could use a ultimate attack.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Ken did not power up. U see, in the final clash of power, ichi was in full sync with his zanpkatou, zangetsu. They became like one. That is the equivalent of ichi using hollow powers since his zanpaktou is half hollow half shinigami. Even with all that power, he barely managed to tie with ken. That meant that ken is that much more powerful. Ichi also tapped into that power again during byakuya's fight but after that he has yet to do so again. SO there is no power-up at all. Ken was the same as he was

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - I'm not sure if it's a correct translation or not, but it says here Kenpachi has a zero in the kido/reiastu category: http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?t=23731
    Ah, my mistake, I was remembering wrong. I was thinking there was a separate stat for reiatsu by itself. Anyway, I guess the reiatsu/kido stat refers to how well the shinigami can "mold" and make use of their reiatsu and such. However, because Kenpachi's defense and offense ratings are both 100, I have to think Kenpachi can already access a good portion of his reiatsu, since those things (defense particularly) are heavily tied to reiatsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - What do you think about Hitsugaya? I thought it was kind of weird that he couldn't harm an unreleased 10th espada with his shikai, but a couple days later he's able to survive a battle with the released 3rd espada, with his bankai.
    Well, Tenso Jurin being as effective as it was was okay with me. But as far as the fight before that point where he seemed to be pushing her back more than she was him, I'm thinking we're meant to believe that Harribel wasn't really giving it her all, that she was just filling the battlefield with water so she could take Hitsugaya out in one shot. In other words, I think Kubo couldn't think of a better way to glorify Hitsugaya and introduce his true power than to make Harribel fight like an idiot for the entirety of the battle, just like he couldn't think of a better way to set up Soi Fon's bankai reveal than have Barragan "chase" Omaeda nonchalantly for several minutes.

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    Re: Unexplained Power-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Ken did not power up. U see, in the final clash of power, ichi was in full sync with his zanpkatou, zangetsu. They became like one. That is the equivalent of ichi using hollow powers since his zanpaktou is half hollow half shinigami. Even with all that power, he barely managed to tie with ken. That meant that ken is that much more powerful. Ichi also tapped into that power again during byakuya's fight but after that he has yet to do so again. SO there is no power-up at all. Ken was the same as he was
    - Ichigo may have tapped a little into his hollow powers, but I don't think it was that much. Shirosaki power was weak back than, and Zangetsu was in control.

    - When Shirosaki was fighting Byakuya, I don't think he was significantly more powerful than him or Ichigo. Byakuya took two Getsuga Tensho's at the same time and he could still fight. Ichigo was able to take a hit from Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, while just using his shikai, and still keep going. So both Ichigo, and Byakuya seemed to have comparable reiastu to each other and Shirosaki.

    If Shirosaki was that much more powerful than Ichigo and Byakuya back than, he should have been able to knock Byakuya out with 2 Getsuga Tensho's.

    - I don't Shirosaki's power were that strong until Ichigo learned how to use mask. It was the difference between Ichigo getting beat by an unreleased Grimmjaw and him beating his released form.

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