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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
First of all, sorry that I had to make everyone to read this announcement, even though a large portion of you are not involved.
This is an announcement for international scanlators who use other groups' releases as base for your own releases. Please do pay attention to the groups' requests. They're simple enough to do.
I made an announcement previously, located here:
That announcement contains everything about this issue is all about. Also, since the problem is still ongoing even with that announcement, I made an update to it, located here:
Please do take your time and read both of the announcement. If you can't get the points, please do ask someone to translate them for you into your language for you to have a better understanding about the issue.
While I'm saying that, this is only for groups who told you that you can use their scans for international releases. For groups who don't allow you to do so, please don't. Or if you really have to, ask them if they'll allow it or not. Please only use the releases after you get the permission.
Thank you for your cooperation. Any questions can be asked here or in the announcement update (the original announcement has been closed for replies).
Thread is closed. ~eni
Last edited by eni; September 02, 2009 at 02:23 AM.
Read the message. Thank you.
as i said on the beta the only solutions is talking to other sites and doing the same thing as here, force all the scanlating groups to give credit or not do anything, we should try to reach the other site owners or admins to get some kind of agreement..
read the message
I've got two questions.
First one: Does the site policy affect scanlations done before said policy was changed? My international scanlating group started some months ago and at that time we were young and didn't care too much about these things, but two months ago we decided to start giving credit and in some cases use the japanese raws. If the site policy is in fact retroactive, could some time-tolerance be given so that we can update the files giving the due and well deserved credit? I know that some time has passed since the original announcement, but it does take some time to do this.
Second one: There's a manga (hypothetical situation) with a scanlation by only one group. We ask that group if we can use their scans, and they tell us that we can't. From what I understand from your post, we wouldn't be able to use them since we don't have permission. Now the problem is that there isn't a raw available (who knows through what trouble the scanlating group went through to get theirs and they aren't willing to share it) and the only group that has scanlated it prohibits other groups to use their scans even if they give credit (Now that I think of it, it's really not that much of a hypothetical situation). Wouldn't this go against MangaHelpers's ideal of bringing manga to where it isn't readily available? If we take it to another level, you're putting us in a situation that is similar to having to ask Kishimoto if he would allow us to use his Naruto manga, he answers "no", and hence you don't publish a single Naruto scanlation on Manga Helpers, because permission was denied.
I find it's wonderful that some fansub/scanlation groups issue copyright infringment complaints over works they don't have any copyright to begin with!
Who gave them the right to translate something? Nobody!
I'm thankful for their work of course, which is for foree, but I can't stand when they are so strict over their translation copyright when they're the first one who ignores the companies' copyright.
The main purpose of fansub/scanlation is to spread anime and manga among fans, so the more they get translated, the better it is. This copyright infringment complaints are ludicrous and pathetic.
For the first one:
Giving credits is important. The announcement applies to releases from here on out. This announcement only applies to the groups with such requests. Some groups are content with you just mentioning them, some don't care at all, some ask you to put their credits page along, some don't allow you to use their releases at all, and some others have their own way.
In this case for past releases, yes, you're given the time to fix your past releases. That's the leniency we can offer for you, only applies for past releases though. New releases are subjected to the announcement immediately.
If they don't allow you to do so, then don't. If they can find a raw to the manga, so can you. There are some other solutions in this case, which the final solution to the unavailability of raw files is for you to scan the raw yourself. You can try to request the raw files here though.
Most of the time, when you can't find the raw files on the internet, it means that the groups bought the manga volume/magazine themselves. One other way is for you to ask them for the raw files, instead of asking to use their scans. Some groups are happy enough to send you the raw files instead of allowing you to just bubble erasing the text from their releases.
I don't mind the chances of the groups if the groups stop releasing the chapters since I can read Japanese. But it'll be a sad thing for thousands of others who can't. But still, can I say that I wouldn't care? From having manga to not, I don't think everyone would like to see that happened.
Let me take JapFlap for example. How many times do you think they're that close to stopping releasing Naruto in HQ, because of just a bunch of people? Since they're the only one now who are scanlating Naruto in HQ, they stopping means there would be no one else. So there won't be HQ chapters anymore. But of course, what do the leechers have to care? They just get whatever came out first and settle with it. Quality is something far from their mind.
Also.. I don't see it's hard at all to put a line in your credits page or put the original credits page along. Let me say this: erasing bubbles off the releases and putting your language text in, is hardly scanlating. In fact, I'd call that not a scanlation.
Last edited by bax; August 31, 2009 at 02:59 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yes I agree on it: but there are plenty of groups who FORBID the use of their translation to translate into native languages. That's the worst case scenario because:Quote:
1) they don't have any rights on a work to begin with.
2) they betray the very fansub/scanlation spirit: to spread anime/manga among fans, so the more the better.
3) they make childish blackmails usually saying "if you don't stop translating our subs we won't make them anymore".
At this point is better if such groups would cease to exist entirely because they're a curse to the fansub/scanlation community.
How about you see it this way? If they want to do something, then do it themselves. If they want a translation, translate from Japanese to their language. If they want a scanlation, then clean the raws themselves. No problems will arise, I can assure you that.Quote:
Or, how about you take your time, around 10 hours on every Friday scanlating 4 to 5 manga, and let the others use your releases without any worries? That would solve the problems all together.
If someone wants to spread a certain manga X scanlated only by group Y in his own native language he only does a service for the community, so I don't see why he should be stopped in doing so by nosensical copyright infringment complaints. The manga editors tolerate, to a certain extent, the unauthorized translation of their manga, I don't see why fansub/scanlation group cannot. They have even more reason to be in favor on manga localizations, because they exist to spread anime and manga between the fans. Or is it just an excuse to show off their translation skills, in order to get hired by some company maybe?Quote:
I wouldn't have a problem in doing that: I mean if I scanlate a manga I do that for the community so I wouldn't have any reason to oppose to something which goes in favor of the community as well!Quote:
I think your arguments have got some contradictions... First of all, if they aren't happy lending us their scans and we giving credit to them, why should they be happy to give us their raws? I fail to see the reason... especially if they had to buy the raws. Where I live it is practically impossible to get any raws... And I visited the forum you have for requesting raws, but I noticed that in the first pages less than 10% of the requests are fulfilled. So I wouldn't actually classify asking at the forum as a solution.
Second of all, there are quite a few international scanlating groups that use the english scans as a source, but edit them so that they are of a higher quality (we've done this in the past with some chapters)... Some chapters also require editing and reconstructing the parts with English text on the actual drawings (text outside of bubbles, also done this)... So I fail to see why suddenly you've started making big generalizations that only the bubbles are edited when using scans from English scanlating groups... I guess some clarification should be made because now it seems that the policy is only against scanlators that limit themselves to erasing the text on the bubbles and adding their translation.
And you mention following the rules for the site... that if you can't follow them, you shouldn't be here in the site. I've got no problem with that, we've been following site policy until now and will continue following it. But now... is the site following the rules for manga?
I am quite aware that a movement was made in Japan to try to stop the subbing of anime and editing of manga. So is the site following the global (world) rules for manga? The truth is that none of us are following those rules. Again, the only part that I think is border line of the new policy is the impossibility to use the English scans if no raw is available and you've been prohibited from using the scans even if you're willing to put their credits page... The site has shifted from being completely lenient, to being severely harsh on this, instead of trying to find an intermediate position...Quote:
Actually, we're lenient enough atm. All we ask you to do is to credit the original scanlator of the releases you use. Simple enough. Just fulfill their request. Some requires you to take their unmodified original English credits page and include it along with your releases. Then there should be no problems at all.
I fail to see what's so hard about it. If you follow the groups' request, then there shouldn't be a need for you to worry about anything.
Now, about the can't use the English scans if there are no raws available. That has always been the rule since the very start of this site. You need to get permission from the groups first. That's all. There's no change in that. I can't say "Oh, you can't find the raws? Then go use whatever English scans you see as base".
I'm just mentioning that, the best way to solve the problem of no raws available, is to buy them. With that said, yes, if you don't get permission from the group to use their releases as base, then it's a no here.
As for the bubble editing thing, it was related to the JapFlap example. Plus, this problem only occurs among the more popular WSJ series.
Is it oppressive or too much when we just want people to credits the original scans they're using? Or is it just too hard to do? A single line or just copy paste an extra page, is that really hard?
Actually I'm amused about where is this turning harsh is coming from. It's the same exact rule we have 3 years ago, and it sure the damn same rule we hold until today. So explain to me why this turn harsh issue is here anyway? Is it just because we are reminding everyone about the rule?
If you feel like it is wrong, feel free to make the scanlations every week and lead everyone by example.
Last edited by bax; August 31, 2009 at 06:06 AM.
A rule which isn't fair in somebody's opinion doesn't turn out being fair in any amount of time...Quote:
I don't need to give anyone any example: I have evrey right to state whatever opinion I have without having to prove anything to anyone. Anyway I already stated that I wouldn't have problems in giving my translations and/or raws to whomever want them. If I would scanlate a manga I would do this for the sake of the manga community, not for showing off my translation skills or something.Quote:
Scanlators who whine about copyright infringments are a nonsense in itself, a curse to the scanlation world: if this nonsense is where the scanlation world is going to it's better if it will cease to exist entirely.