Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/18/14 - 8/24/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 63

Thread: Pre-emptive Youki Sensing Ability (PYSA)

  1. #46
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member serpico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Winterfell
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Certainly a inferior technique like the rafaela can't give a edge against Priscilla as we know there not a superior technique than (yoki perception or preemptive )
    So there not power up for cleare even if yagi want to make look like that because there not even a technique that can be even on pair with the one that teresa passed on cleare.

    ---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------

    It we're referred to a esfera of yoki it no that pretty much like seikuken from kenichi.

  2. #47
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    Poland
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by God Eye Galatea View Post
    (...) It is actually,
    "Expanding (opening) a field (film) of yoki (detection or perception I suppose) surronding the body, one can achieve precise movement even beyond the field of vision."(...)
    If it is like this then it is a rip-off of Hunter x Hunter.

    But if Yagi is ripping off then it's good he's doing it from the best.

    Anyway, this could explain why Irene could have assessed Rafaela's power level once she was close enough ("As strong as you are why have you stopped at #5?"). Previously I made up an excuse for Yagi and said that she just deduced that Rafaela must be super strong if she was sent to kill HER (probably the strongest #3 in history) while being cloaked. Not to mention that to reach a cloaked state she would need years which would beg the question how come she could fight ABs like that.

    But what really happened (assuming this translation is accurate) was probably that Rafaela has always used that technique and could contain the field of youki to few meters only (the range of her sword) making herself effectively cloaked for anyone except the closest opponent. Few centimetres would give her nothing because before she could react to the object she would be dead (unless she would rely on other senses) since there would be almost no delay between the attack reaching her "zone" and reaching her body

    I've had a somewhat similar theory 4 years ago but about Teresa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goral
    I have fanboyish theory why Teresa wouldn't have to worry about anyone detecting her youki. She was so skilled at releasing her youma powers that she could control radius of youki radiation to some degree (but of course because she is the most powerful warrior this radius coudn't have been 0 m) or because she specialized at youki sensing in close range the same applied to emitting youki.
    Last edited by Ancy; October 04, 2012 at 03:28 PM.

  3. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  4. #48
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    48
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    The way I see it is that if Clare had this technique back when she faced Ophelia she might have been able to dodge rippling sword. It seems to complement PYS very nicely.

  5. #49
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Raphaela's technique is not inferior to Teresa's technique at all, it is better in some areas and it's worse in others.
    Actually, being able to perform both techniques (like Claire) is something quite terrifying if you think about it: the only weak points of Teresa's technique were against "cloacked" attacks or against attacks that emit too much yoki (like happened with Prissy): now Claire should have both those weaknesses covered and if you add to that her crazy QS that is able to react both in defence and offence to basically anything........scary!

    ......not to mention that it's possible that PSY could have some problem even when Claire herself releases an immense amount of yoki, instead Yoki-Field should have no problem with that,on the contrary it could could become even better (bigger radius).

    Also it's highly possible that Claire will use a combination of the two techniques and not one technique separated from the other.
    In conclusion, IMO Raphaela's Yoki-Field technique could be a crazy power up for Claire since combined with PSY, Claire should be able to use "prediction" even in high-energy fights, like against Priscilla.

    If Claire really is hiding an immense yoki (like i speculate), she could become a real monster capable of fighting on equal ground against even Prissy.

  6. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  7. #50
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Country
    Spain
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    MalakTawus:
    But although Clare can use this skill against Priscilla,
    Remember that predicts the attack when it is already started, and only 2 or 3 feet away of her body. To avoid it you need the speed necessary and I doubt that Clare has the same speed as Priscilla. Instead, Priscilla in human form much faster than Clare. In awakened form, further.
    Last edited by su5so; October 02, 2012 at 02:32 PM.

  8. #51
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member serpico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Winterfell
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Indeed Priscilla it faster than half or full awakene cleare an as you say an he human form.

  9. #52
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Elandyll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    United States
    Age
    42
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Given that -eventually- from a story logic perspective the fact that Clare has Theresa's flesh -should- have an importance, and that could change the circumstances drastically on Clare's speed, but that is still to be seen, obviously.
    What we do know is that Clare got (yet another) power up. Also, we still haven't even seen the full effect of the power up from the 7 year hiatus (Clare has been unable to partially awaken so far), let alone this one, so ... hang in there

  10. Like 2 Member(s) likes this post
  11. #53
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    37
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Teresa's PYS is far superior for a number of reasons:

    1. Reading youki flow means you know exactly what type of attack is being performed. it's almost like reading the future. Rafaela's technique on the other hand, is only able to react when the attack hits the youki sphere and you have less information on the type of attack, speed, power and nature of attack compare to PYS.
    2. The reaction time or the time you can anticipate and act is far less with Rafaela's technique since after all the attack is already on the way. Thus it is much more difficult to deal with someone much faster then you, unlike PYS, where you know as soon as the person starts the attack and can preemptively attack or dodge without the need to be on par in raw speed and power.
    3. PYS is much more useful against multiple opponents, especially when they are teaming up with tactics to force you dodge or move in a certain way or to a certain direction. With Rafaela's skill, you can only dodge or parry block attacks that are already executed and thus is liable to tactics that seal off all your escape routes by orchestrating your movements. With PYS, you always have complete information available from all opponents (other then completely cloaked) to make optimum decisions ahead of time and never be cornered by such tactics.

    While I agree Raf's skill makes up for some weaknesses such as cloaking opponents and opponents that you are unable to read youki from, it in itself is an inferior technique.

  12. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  13. #54
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member serpico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    Winterfell
    Posts
    487
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
    Teresa's PYS is far superior for a number of reasons:

    1. Reading youki flow means you know exactly what type of attack is being performed. it's almost like reading the future. Rafaela's technique on the other hand, is only able to react when the attack hits the youki sphere and you have less information on the type of attack, speed, power and nature of attack compare to PYS.
    2. The reaction time or the time you can anticipate and act is far less with Rafaela's technique since after all the attack is already on the way. Thus it is much more difficult to deal with someone much faster then you, unlike PYS, where you know as soon as the person starts the attack and can preemptively attack or dodge without the need to be on par in raw speed and power.
    3. PYS is much more useful against multiple opponents, especially when they are teaming up with tactics to force you dodge or move in a certain way or to a certain direction. With Rafaela's skill, you can only dodge or parry block attacks that are already executed and thus is liable to tactics that seal off all your escape routes by orchestrating your movements. With PYS, you always have complete information available from all opponents (other then completely cloaked) to make optimum decisions ahead of time and never be cornered by such tactics.

    While I agree Raf's skill makes up for some weaknesses such as cloaking opponents and opponents that you are unable to read youki from, it in itself is an inferior technique.
    Certainly you're right I like you post an even more so PYS it's best of the best granted the title of the strongest technique for the organization in self.

  14. #55
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    Poland
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,250
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    @SagaraSouske

    If it is superior then only because Yagi explicitly says so, not because there are hints pointing towards that notion.

    1) No, reading youki flow doesn't mean you know exactly what type of attack is being performed. Priscilla's and Ophelia's attacks are proof of that. At best they roughly give you an idea of general direction so it works best for ranged attacks where trajectory is unlikely to change and where you have enough time to react or for sneak attacks if an opponent emits youki. Also, PYS doesn't tell Teresa/Clare how to hold her sword and at what angle parry the attack. Worse even, it doesn't say her how will attack of her opponent look like. If it is a conventional, schematic attack that Claymores learned from MiB instructors then sure. But if it has any element of randomness or unconventionality then it can even be a handicap as seen in a fight with Priscilla (where Teresa had to switch it off) or Ophelia (where Clare was so focused on youki flow that she didn't even pay attention to where the sword was really going). So far we've seen it works only for ranged attacks (like Riguald's or male AB in Slasher's arc) and maybe to not be surprised by an attack and that's it. In other cases we have no proof if it works since we do not know if it had been used (logically it shouldn't be used but since it's manga which with every chapter starts to resemble Naruto more and more then it's not impossible).

    2) Doesn't matter in the long run since this advantage is only with the first attack and even then youki flow must be much, MUCH faster than the attack itself so... And PYS can't freeze time so unless Teresa was faster than the attack itself she could never escape from an attack like this.

    3) No, it's not much more useful against miltiple opponents. In fact, it's useless. It would suffice that two opponents would go at PYS user from two opposite directions at the same time and it would be a game over unless he would have much greater speed than them. Having only 1 sword and arms from one side only it would be impossible to counter such attack even if someone would know the future.

    PYS is the most overestimated technique in Claymore and the reason for this is that people do not think and take Naruto (sharingan) as proof it must work.

    I'm tired of discussing this matter with you SS but I wanted to present the other side. If you want to discuss it further go here please so that we wouldn't spam this thread with quote wars: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...he-Flash-Sword

    Some pictures which show PYS's weakness:


  15. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  16. #56
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by su5so View Post
    MalakTawus:
    But although Clare can use this skill against Priscilla,
    Remember that predicts the attack when it is already started, and only 2 or 3 feet away of her body. To avoid it you need the speed necessary and I doubt that Clare has the same speed as Priscilla. Instead, Priscilla in human form much faster than Clare. In awakened form, further.

    Who said that it's only 2 or 3 feet away?
    Claire has no reason to keep herself cloacked against Prissy (like Raph did) so releasing her yoki at full power she should be able to expand the radius of the technique a lot more (notice that i also speculated that Claire is hiding an immense yoki, if not it's impossible anyway to fight against Prissy for obvious reasons).

    So like i have said, imo if Claire can combine PSY and Yoki Field and if she really is hiding a very powerful yoki, she should be able to fight against Prissy on equal ground thanx to her new QS (that also would become even stronger the more yoki Claire possess).
    And no, i don't think that Prissy would be faster than Claire's powered up QS.

    @SagaraSouske

    It's true that PSY is better in "normal" fights, but the problem is that Claire's objective is NOT a normal fight at all.
    Against Prissy PSY alone is completely useless, so basically all the good points that you mentioned mean absolutely nothing since the technique can't be used at all.
    So no, Raphaela's Yoki Field is not an inferior technique at all, it's just a technique that shines in different situations.
    If Claire manages to fuse somehow the two techniques she would possess the craziest prediction technique ever created.

    @Gooral

    I agree in part with your post,but imo you are understimating PSY a lot just because Claire was still learning how to use it, against Ophelia she was still far from mastering the technique.
    You say that PSY gives only a general direction of the attack, while instead that's not true at all, it's just that Claire was still green, infact even against Ophy's secret technique, if you reember well Claire was able to sense that Ophelia was about to do "something strange", and unless you think that Claire has some sort of mysterious sixth sense, it's quite obvious that even that prediction is due to PSY.........but since she was still unskilled that was the most she could do at that time (and she wasn't even sure if the danger she felt was real or not).


    Also, it's true that techniques like PSY or Yoki Field are completely useless if the warrior herself is not very strong (since she need to be able to react in time to the various predictions, otherwise knowing the way you'll die is not very helpful,lol), but in the hands of a warrior with crazy reaction time they could transform that very strong warrior in a real monster.

    Claire now could create the ultimate prediction technique, that combined with the fastest technique (QS) would basically make Claire the ultimate warrior technique-wise.
    Now all she needs to fight against Prissy on equal ground is a powerful enough yoki.

    Btw, Gooral, your 3rd point is quite bad to be honest, cause you are not considering that knowing the way the two enemies attack you from opposite directions, even if you have only one sword from one side you are COMPLETELY forgetting the right approach to that situation: dodge the attacks, and only AFTER that (or while you dodge) killing easily the two morons that attack you.
    Of course if you also possess QS.......
    Last edited by MalakTawus; October 03, 2012 at 05:12 AM.

  17. #57
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Country
    Spain
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    MalakTawus:
    The QS faster than Priscilla? I doubt it. The QS must be clearly inferior to the semi-awakened Clare. And in this way, Clare just made ​​a few cuts to Priscilla in human form. (And the antagonist did not seem surprised by the speed of the attack, remember that she was harmed like this for Alice, then she surpassed in speed in an instant and kill her). So the QS not hurt her at all.

    About the PSY is true that apart from block two attacks at once, it is easier to dodge. But Goral is right. Along the battle, if the opponent is faster, although she knows where they attack, she can not dodge or block them all. Is logic and an indisputable fact.

    And I agree with you about the distance of hability, with the yoki occult of Clare, must be lengthened much.
    Last edited by su5so; October 03, 2012 at 05:02 PM.

  18. #58
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    37
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    @Gooral

    This is a rehash of old arguments and there are already tons of details being used as examples on this subject. But I agree with the point raised by Malak the neither Ophelia nor Pris are good examples. If you want to bring up Ophelia, you must also consider slasher arc's male AB. The performance of PYS is quite a contrast between these two fights and it isn't due to PYS being weak but rather Clare not being as a proficient user of the skill to read Ophelia's technique.

    1. If PYS cannot predict pinpoint accuracy of how the attack will come about, Clare would not have been able to dodge Slasher Arc male AB's multiple tentacle attack strike at a very small area around her. She would have to know the exact trajectory and speed of each tentacle to step into a spot to avoid all of them.

    2. Youki flowing faster or slower is not relevant. It's akin to me reading your muscle movement before you swing your arm or move your bodyl. No matter how fast you are, the time it takes you to use youki to perform the attack till the attack hits the youki sphere is significantly more then the time it takes to travel from the sphere to you. Thus PYS gives the user far more reaction time then Raf's technique even if we do not count the additional info gained from youki reading. It works for every single attack since for every attack performed, one must direct youki towards the execution of such attack.

    3. Raf's technique facing multiple opponent in your example will fare even worse because there will be less time to react and less choices available due to the attack already being on the way instead of just being executed. And I have always disagreed on the notion that one must be equally as fast or faster than your opponent to dodge or block or counter attack. With foresight, one can be slower and perform actions that appears to happen first. It's a fundamental philosophy of martial arts that one can act second and score first due to being able to read the opponent and choose actions that will end up arriving first. Every action/attack has an opportunity cost, if you know that cost ahead of time, you can make your opponent pay dearly. PYS is a superhuman form of that philosophy taking it to the extreme.

    @Malak, I already agree that Raf's technique is useful in certain specific circumstances. I am just saying in general PYS is better. As for fight with Pris, that remains to be seen. Just because Teresa couldn't read Pris's youki doesn't mean Clare can't. It is entirely possible for Yagi to allow Clare perfect the technique beyond what Teresa is capable of. She certainly was able to read Riful's youki with no problem and dodge her attacks. PYS reinforced QS also is her most potent technique at the moment. Raf's technique would not enhance it in anyway.

    I am sure she can do both and using Raf's technique cover some of the situations where it will be better. But primarily it is still PYS that will allow her to archive her victory.

  19. #59
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member MalakTawus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    @su5so

    First of all, it makes no sense saying that the QS is inferior to semi awakened Claire, one is a technique, the other is a "status".
    Second, Priscilla was able to see only the very beginning of the technique since Claire stopped herself.
    Third, i CLEARLY speculated that to fight Prissy Claire needs an immense yoki, but if that really happens it's obvious that even her QS will become way stronger.
    Fourth, Priscilla has ALWAYS been confident 'cause she belives no one can defeat her anyway. She was very calm and confident even when she faced Teresa........but Teresa kicked her ass,lol.

    About PSY i still not agree. Knowing how the enemies will attack is an IMMENSE advantage. You people are understimating in a ridiculous way the knowledge to move your body in a 3d space.
    The only way that your enemies will be able to touch you is if they are CLEARLY faster than you (and not just a bit faster!) because if they are not, you can basically move in the 3d space dodging their attacks and AT THE SAME TIME attacking them in their weak points, killing them very easily.

  20. #60
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Elandyll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    United States
    Age
    42
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Claymore 131 Spoiler Thread

    I just re-read the whole Teresa ambush chapters, and all I have to say is that Irene was a conceited fool who was the cause of this entire debacle.
    Thinking again about all this, I think she was merely trying to atone for her horrible mistakes when she decided to help Clare.

    Yep, I went there

New Reply
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts