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Thread: What would you change about PoT1

  1. #31
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
    Thing with Inui his data can have some mistakes - like V Renji first time, V Shishido/Ootori, V Kirihara/Renji. Renji's data hasn't really been wrong (yet?) plus his memory capacity far outstrips Inui - he doesn't need a book. I highly doubt data can contain a devil though.
    Of course you need the strength and skill to incorporate that data but I still think physically (strength/speed) Inui and Renji are not that different. Skill wise, I'm not sure.

    Now I know most of you don't think Inui should have won the in the Kanto finals but he did. During that match, Renji and Inui had equal levels of data and went to a tie break. Therefore, I think their skill and physically prowess can't be that different. Given equal data.

    However, it is quite possible that Renji increased his speed, strength, and over all skill a lot between then and U-17. If Renji did, then Inui would get waffle stomped by Kirihara.

    Now while Inui tends to have his data fail on him all the time.
    Spoiler show
    I still think that his data is very good. The more time he has the more he understands his opponent. Had he been with Kirihara since 2nd year I think his data would be complete enough to beat him.

    Also, I didn't say he would dominate Kirihara. I just said that he could beat him. How close the match is who knows?

    The main difference between Inui and Renji to me is the rate at which they gain data on their opponents. Renji beats Inui hands down in terms of speed so...like x^3, where as Inui would be like x. However, Renji stops at a certain point at gathering data where as Inui never does. I think this is what allowed Inui to "trick" Renji in their match.

    So...

    Renji - 3x | x < 99
    Inui = x | x < 100

    To put things in uber geeky math equations.
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Inui is David Xanatos while Renji is Batman.

    Renji's plans NEVER go wrong, and he's a badass to boot. He is just that good.
    Example:
    Kirihara match. He not only read him completely, and knew his weaknesses, but he was also was good enough physically, and just outright badass to send him straight to hell.

    We can compare that to:
    Batman vs Superman.
    To quote my favorite American comic ever, that had a Batman v Superman fight...

    Quote Quote:
    "I want you to remember, Clark... in all the years to come... in your most private moments... I want you to remember my hand at your throat... I want you to remember the one man who beat you..."
    Inui's plans go wrong, a lot. But sometimes, that's okay. Because losing is part of his plan.
    That's the art of being like David Xanatos. It's when even losing makes you win. Inui vs Renji is the best example of that. Renji was overconfident and careless.

    He let himself become emotionally connected to that match because he thought that everything was going according to plan. But letting everything going according to plan was Inui's plan. Letting Renji win in order to make him drop his guard was his plan. That's what makes him awesome.

    We can compare that to:
    Every single Gargoyles' episode ever.

    So, to summarize:
    Renji=
    "I'm the goddamn Batman.
    Inui=
    He's smiling because he won ten minutes ago and you haven't noticed yet.

    Both of them playing together=Awesome.
    Last edited by Sherlock Holmes; December 04, 2009 at 04:32 PM.

  3. #33
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
    Inui is David Xanatos while Renji is Batman.

    Renji's plans NEVER go wrong, and he's a badass to boot. He is just that good.
    Example:
    Kirihara match. He not only read him completely, and knew his weaknesses, but he was also was good enough physically, and just outright badass to send him straight to hell.

    We can compare that to:
    Batman vs Superman.
    To quote my favorite American comic ever, that had a Batman v Superman fight...

    Inui's plans go wrong, a lot. But sometimes, that's okay. Because losing is part of his plan.
    That's the art of being like David Xanatos. It's when even losing makes you win. Inui vs Renji is the best example of that. Renji was overconfident and careless.

    He let himself become emotionally connected to that match because he thought that everything was going according to plan. But letting everything going according to plan was Inui's plan. Letting Renji win in order to make him drop his guard was his plan. That's what makes him awesome.

    We can compare that to:
    Every single Gargoyles' episode ever.

    Both of them playing together=Awesome.
    I totally agree with your comparison on Inui and Renji but...

    As cool as Renji is...he is no Batman. I'm sorry but even in Tennis Batman vs Renji. Batman will still win. He's just that good. I quote you from the Naruto side forums Shikimaru + time = Batman. I don't think Renji is as smart as Shika or Batman. I MEAN HE'S FREAKING BATMAN. CAN YOU BREATH IN SPACE????
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jyten View Post
    I totally agree with your comparison on Inui and Renji but...

    As cool as Renji is...he is no Batman. I'm sorry but even in Tennis Batman vs Renji. Batman will still win. He's just that good. I quote you from the Naruto side forums Shikimaru + time = Batman. I don't think Renji is as smart as Shika or Batman. I MEAN HE'S FREAKING BATMAN. CAN YOU BREATH IN SPACE????
    That's a good point, I'm not sure Renji can breath in space...BUT CAN YOU PROVE HE CAN'T?

    Oh, but I agree, even in tennis, Batman would still beat Renji.
    Xanatos would lose to Renji, but that's fine, because it was all part of his plan.

    Renji is probably Nightwing level though.
    Spoiler: For American Comics show


    So yeah, I maintain that Renji is definitely a Batman level character.
    Spoiler: For American Comics show

  5. #35
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
    That's a good point, I'm not sure Renji can breath in space...BUT CAN YOU PROVE HE CAN'T?

    Oh, but I agree, even in tennis, Batman would still beat Renji.
    Xanatos would lose to Renji, but that's fine, because it was all part of his plan.

    Renji is probably Nightwing level though.
    Spoiler: For American Comics show


    So yeah, I maintain that Renji is definitely a Batman level character.
    Spoiler: For American Comics show
    Off Topic...

    Hey I said nothing about Renji breathing in space...I SAID CAN YOU BREATH IN SPACE.

    Spoiler: For American Comics show


    On topic...

    Yeah, wants Renji/Inui to pull a Yagyuu/Nioh where they switch halfway through the match.
    Last edited by Jyten; December 04, 2009 at 05:31 PM.
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jyten View Post
    Hey I said nothing about Renji breathing in space...I SAID CAN YOU BREATH IN SPACE.

    Spoiler: For American Comics show
    Of course I can breath in space. I have played golf in space with Batman a few times.

    Spoiler: For American Comics show


    So on-topic, Inui is much less skilled physically, and his data is slightly worse than Renji, but his planning is Xanatos-level.

  7. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
    Of course I can breath in space. I have played golf in space with Batman a few times.

    Spoiler: For American Comics show


    So on-topic, Inui is much less skilled physically, and his data is slightly worse than Renji, but his planning is Xanatos-level.
    I agree with everything but the physical...I think he's close. I don't think he's that much worse physically just thanks to their tie break but hey its not that important.
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  8. #38
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    He just can't be that much worse physically, that insane training taken into consideration. It's not that he is slow or anything, I just think his technique is abit worse (I just rewatched the match and seeing that, Inui can't be worse physically, he just can't)

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Bowser's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Yanagi doesn't sweat as much...and he had his jersey on!

    Perhaps more so in the Kanto match, but in the last match in the double 2 one, definately not, since Kirihara was doing all the job. I think physically, possible Inui but...

    Inui has waterfall- so what, Yanagi pwned that.
    Inui has data - Yanagi pwns that too.
    Yanagi has Kamitachi - did Inui return that?
    Yanagi has Cicada - did Inui return that too?

  10. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
    Yanagi doesn't sweat as much...and he had his jersey on!

    Perhaps more so in the Kanto match, but in the last match in the double 2 one, definately not, since Kirihara was doing all the job. I think physically, possible Inui but...

    Inui has waterfall- so what, Yanagi pwned that.
    Inui has data - Yanagi pwns that too.
    Yanagi has Kamitachi - did Inui return that?
    Yanagi has Cicada - did Inui return that too?
    But Inui has XANATOS GAMBITS. Which worked on their first match, and probably would have in their second, had him not fainted.

  11. #41
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
    But Inui has XANATOS GAMBITS. Which worked on their first match, and probably would have in their second, had him not fainted.
    Hmm thanks Bowser, I never realized that Renji had his jersey on the whole time. Also, he does have less sweat...but again I can't see Renji not going full power against...

    a) his old doubles partner (its just plain disrespectful)
    b) being a Rikkaidai Emperor I can't see him going easy ever, especially if it costs him the game.
    c) Yuki was still his friend and with his surgery I bet he wanted to win that much more for Yuki.

    On the topic that Renji returned everything Inui threw at him and Inui didn't really return anything. I think Renji is just high skill wise. Not in plain physical strength or speed like in a race or lifting weights.

    However, it could have been an Inui Gambit like Sherlock said or he simply couldn't return those shots while taking data. Now if he wasn't taking data I can see Inui returning those shots.

    Sherlock, agreed not to the extent of Xanatos gambits but its the same idea. Either way, I actually really enjoyed Inui/Renji match and honestly I wouldn't have changed anything about it.
    Last edited by Jyten; December 07, 2009 at 12:20 PM.
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Inui beating Renji is simple,

    Konomi didn't know what he was doing at the time. He didn't see how ridiculous it made Rikkaidai look. Just so Seigaku could win? Realism > Plot hax please. Seigaku should have gotten aced by every match imo.

    Bunta/Jackal - Win
    Niou/Yagyuu - Win
    Renji - Win
    Kirihara - Win
    Sanada - Win

    That would have made this series worth watching, waiting for Seigaku to rematch Rikkaidai.

    Though, I bet Konomi is thinking the same thing now in hindsight. But nothing can be done now.

  13. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member javimgol's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Inui beating Renji is simple,

    Konomi didn't know what he was doing at the time. He didn't see how ridiculous it made Rikkaidai look. Just so Seigaku could win? Realism > Plot hax please. Seigaku should have gotten aced by every match imo.

    Bunta/Jackal - Win
    Niou/Yagyuu - Win
    Renji - Win
    Kirihara - Win
    Sanada - Win

    That would have made this series worth watching, waiting for Seigaku to rematch Rikkaidai.

    Though, I bet Konomi is thinking the same thing now in hindsight. But nothing can be done now.
    I've read somewhere that he was also thinking to transfer Fuji to Rikkai in the Nationals, so I think Konomi wasn't very sure about the develop of the manga at that point.

    I agree with you (Rikkai victory in Kanto's Finals). But with the exception of Inui's match (in fact, very epic IMAO), the rest of the matches weren't a plot hax. Momo-Kaidoh receive a true 1-6; Golden Pair giving a good battle and showed us more formations, Fuji's blind victory and even Ryoma comeback (only because this is a shonen, but still pretty good) were good matches. In the anime Kanto's Finals are crap,of course. But in manga they are OK.
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  14. #44
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jyten's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Inui beating Renji is simple,

    Konomi didn't know what he was doing at the time. He didn't see how ridiculous it made Rikkaidai look. Just so Seigaku could win? Realism > Plot hax please. Seigaku should have gotten aced by every match imo.

    Bunta/Jackal - Win
    Niou/Yagyuu - Win
    Renji - Win
    Kirihara - Win
    Sanada - Win

    That would have made this series worth watching, waiting for Seigaku to rematch Rikkaidai.

    Though, I bet Konomi is thinking the same thing now in hindsight. But nothing can be done now.
    Did Konomi know what he was doing during the Rikkaidai match, maybe? Reasons follow...

    Why don't you think anybody could have won against Rikkaidai? Sure they were strong but from what I gathered only the 3 demons were really on "Tezuka" level even though I really doubt Renji could beat Tezuka. None of the others could beat Tezuka. I don't really see why you have so much beef about Rikkaidai losing?

    Inui/Renji - Tie break. It was close. They knew each other extremely well.

    Fuji/Kirihara - Very close match. I honestly think Fuji was better than Kirihara. I just think Fuji is a complete space cadet. Blind eyes was a silly way to make him focus, but whatever. I think a serious completely focused Fuji would have beaten Kirihara with out blind eyes.

    I mean their win record is about the same. Why do you really think Kirihara is that good? To me, he's below the 3 demons and probably around Yagyuu level but right now he might be below Yagyuu and Nioh.

    Echizen - Seriously Echizen should have lost but he's the main char...what can you do?

    Furthermore, I'm sorry but realism and logic do not apply to 90% of all manga and anime. Its a bit unfair for PoT to be real and follow logic all the time. If you want that go read history. I'd start around the American revolution and go from there or even better some news reports.
    Dang, starting to get too old for manga and anime....


  15. #45
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: What would you change about PoT1

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Inui beating Renji is simple,

    Konomi didn't know what he was doing at the time. He didn't see how ridiculous it made Rikkaidai look. Just so Seigaku could win? Realism > Plot hax please. Seigaku should have gotten aced by every match imo.

    Bunta/Jackal - Win
    Niou/Yagyuu - Win
    Renji - Win
    Kirihara - Win
    Sanada - Win

    That would have made this series worth watching, waiting for Seigaku to rematch Rikkaidai.

    Though, I bet Konomi is thinking the same thing now in hindsight. But nothing can be done now.
    I agree with Jyten.

    Fuji's win was very ok. He was just better than Kirihara in Kanto. (actually I wonder just how strong he really is, seeing everyone speaking about his "unlimited potenital" in every match he plays)

    Inui vs Renji is fine as well. They knew each others playstyle and it ended in a tiebreak. I think Inui said something like he had a 50% chance of winning after the match, so maybe with Renji being a bit careless, after Inui "abandoned" his data, the match had a proper result.

    The only thing that really annoys me about the finals is that Ryoma won against Sanada, that was ridiculous. He should have lost the match, Seigaku should have lost the finals and they could have won the nationals in the end.

    Nevertheless, Ryoma losing to Sanada would have been a much better story imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by javimgol View Post
    I've read somewhere that he was also thinking to transfer Fuji to Rikkai in the Nationals, so I think Konomi wasn't very sure about the develop of the manga at that point.
    He did? Why did he decide against it, the national finals would have been so great like that.

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