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View Poll Results: Can Ukitake's shikai redirect respira?

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45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes,Ukitake can redirect Respira and have an easy win

    13 28.89%
  • No,Barragan respira is ultimate....

    11 24.44%
  • Ukitake would find another way to skip it,maybe his bankai....

    19 42.22%
  • Don?t know.....

    5 11.11%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

  1. #16
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    When he beats Stark 1v1 you can say that. Deflecting a couple of Stark's cero is not being on his level. Stark was about to shoot 1000 cero and kill Ukitake before Wonderweis showed up and did Stark's job for him. Ukitake might have good abilities and be wise but he is cursed with weak stamina due to his illness. And guess what, Barragan ain't gonna stop attacking when Ukitake starts coughing up blood midfight. Well, knowing Barragan, he probably would start talking about his ant farm and give Ukitake a few chances, but if we assume Barragan is there to fight Ukitake is gonna drop.




    Yama wasn't even trying to kill them. Where was the bankais? It wasn't no serious fight, he just wanted to punish them he said. Man, that was more of a Yama power up than a real fight since they barely even fought and went to stop Aizen instead.

    Let's not forget Respira was able to hit Soifon who is likely faster than Ukitake. This is a stomp.
    1- Uki bested released starks. Starks didn't exactly have the upper hand on uki either.
    2-How do you figure that Uki couldn't counter 1000 ceros? Did you see it? Or is it just assumptions.
    3- You seem to think that hacchi is the only one capable of using high level kido. Uki got a 100 in kido in his data book stats
    4-The reason uki and shunsui didn't release their shikai b/c they didn't want to fight their teacher, it would be disrespectful. You think that after they showed hesitation that they would really fight old man yama at 100%?
    5- As someone has said, that TB is only a ploy by the author to make his story. SO it wouldn't really be an issue in this battle
    Last edited by Tsukisama; September 15, 2009 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Removed trolling

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  3. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    1- Uki bested released starks. Starks didn't exactly have the upper hand on uki either.
    2-How do you figure that Uki couldn't counter 1000 ceros? Did you see it? Or is it just assumptions.
    3- You seem to think that hacchi is the only one capable of using high level kido. Uki got a 100 in kido in his data book stats
    4-The reason uki and shunsui didn't release their shikai b/c they didn't want to fight their teacher, it would be disrespectful. You think that after they showed hesitation that they would really fight old man yama at 100%?
    5- As someone has said, that TB is only a ploy by the author to make his story. SO it wouldn't really be an issue in this battle
    Great post, summarised everything nicely.

    1. Of course its speculation. Starrk never fired 1000 ceros, we dont even know if he can or was just proposing the scenario to get an idea of Uki's powers. Fact is until stark DOES fire 1000 ceros its not cannon that he can-sorry hachigeneral it just isnt. Since he got serious with Love and still didnt do it I would imagine that he wasnt being serious when he made that statement.
    2. Very good point about Uki having 100 in kido-that should mean that he is as good as any shinigami can be without maybe being captain or VC of the kido core. The only two people who could be better than him at kido would be Hachi and Tessai. But just because Hachi is better that doesnt mean Ukitake doesnt know enough Kido to do some serious stuff. Add to that the fact that Ukitake's reiatsu is most likely much Higher than Hachi's the actual force of hado he uses would be greater.

    3. yama wasnt serious but neither were they. Even Yama not serious is more dangerous than Barragan imo and Ukitakes illness didnt strike-because KT didnt want it to. Using plot device as argument is not really valid.

    4. Anyone who says that any character in Bleach can "stomp" Ukitake Joushiro is clearly dreaming or doesnt understand bleach. There are a few select characters at the top of the power rankings. Those are Yamamoto, Aizen, Shunsui, Ukitake and Unohana. These are not characters that could ever be stomped by anyone. Least of all by someone who got beaten by Hachigen-hes good but hes not great.
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  4. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Quote:
    Anyone who says that any character in Bleach can "stomp" Ukitake Joushiro is clearly dreaming or doesnt understand bleach. There are a few select characters at the top of the power rankings. Those are Yamamoto, Aizen, Shunsui, Ukitake and Unohana. These are not characters that could ever be stomped by anyone. Least of all by someone who got beaten by Hachigen-hes good but hes not great.
    Wonderweis KOed Ukitake, Barragan will too. Simple as that.

  5. #19
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Wonderweis KOed Ukitake, Barragan will too. Simple as that.
    Umm, no, not as simple as that:

    1) How do you know Barragan is able to accomplish every feat WW did? WW may be even stronger than Stark.

    2) It seems kids are Ukitake's Achilles' Heel, he didn't expect such a move from WW. Mashiro KOed WW, do you think Mashiro is much stronger than Ukitake?

  6. #20
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    It isn't about strength, it is about Ukitake's durability. He has low durability and is a sick man. Plus no one has come up with a feasible way for Ukitake to even touch Barragan.

    Now I see Wonderweis exposed the holes in Ukitake's game. And yeah, if a Mashiro kick hits Ukitake...well, he would be dead, but if she kicked Shunsui he would get back up. Why? Because Ukitake just cant take a hit...hes way too sick. He'll gas out after dodging a respira or two then Barragan will be wondering if he should attack a sick and dying man. I bet he would just leave because there is no reason The King of HM has to lower himself to beating up sick people for his wins. He can get plenty of victories by fighting the young arrogant captains like Hitsuguya and Soifon....why bother finishing off Ukitake?
    Last edited by Hachigeneral; September 16, 2009 at 07:27 PM.

  7. #21
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Plus no one has come up with a feasible way for Ukitake to even touch Barragan.
    We don't know the abilities of Ukitake's shikai, let alone his bankai. His shikai command is "All Waves, Rise now and Become my Shield, Lightning, Strike now and Become my Blade". He probably has lightning-based attacks that can damage an opponent like Barragan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    He'll gas out after dodging a respira or two then Barragan will be wondering if he should attack a sick and dying man.
    If Ukitake has only enough energy to dodge one or two respira, what is he doing in this battle? Why did he come, as a bystander? He was willing to help Shunsui against primera, doesn't he know he'll gas out after a couple of ceros?

    Ukitake's illness may show up anytime, it is random. He may get sick without engaging in a fight, he may not get sick after 10 hours of continuous fighting. There is no connection between his condition and the effort he made.

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  9. #22
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    We don't know the abilities of Ukitake's shikai, let alone his bankai. His shikai command is "All Waves, Rise now and Become my Shield, Lightning, Strike now and Become my Blade". He probably has lightning-based attacks that can damage an opponent like Barragan.
    Barragan can age lightning. Lightning doesn't last long to begin with.


    Quote Quote:
    If Ukitake has only enough energy to dodge one or two respira, what is he doing in this battle? Why did he come, as a bystander? He was willing to help Shunsui against primera, doesn't he know he'll gas out after a couple of ceros?
    Maybe he will? That's the thing, if he works too hard he can end up incapacitated or worse due to his illness. That's why Wonderweis went for him first, because like a shark smells blood WW smelled weakness.

    Quote Quote:
    Ukitake's illness may show up anytime, it is random. He may get sick without engaging in a fight, he may not get sick after 10 hours of continuous fighting. There is no connection between his condition and the effort he made.
    Illness and exertion go hand in hand. If his lungs are damaged which is pretty obvious by how he chokes out blood when he pushes his damaged lungs beyond their limit he is going to beat himself. Barragan will say "I don't even think I need respira, you already got the lungs of an old man with COPD". Come on guys, when he was fighting that fodder hollow he was so incapacitated by his illness that he couldn't even stop the hollow from attacking Rukia.

  10. #23
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Barragan can age lightning. Lightning doesn't last long to begin with.
    Barragan can't age lightning before he gets a good deal of electric shock. Barragan doesn't have physical immunity and he doesn't have the ability to neutralize any attack instantaneously. He can only weaken the attack by respira if he doesn't get hit from behind by someone who uses his speed to catch him off-guard. He can be overpowered by strong attacks coming from, for example, someone like Stark, who has a higher rank than Barragan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Illness and exertion go hand in hand. If his lungs are damaged which is pretty obvious by how he chokes out blood when he pushes his damaged lungs beyond their limit he is going to beat himself. Barragan will say "I don't even think I need respira, you already got the lungs of an old man with COPD". Come on guys, when he was fighting that fodder hollow he was so incapacitated by his illness that he couldn't even stop the hollow from attacking Rukia.
    If Ukitake is still serving as a captain, it means he is not totally useless in a battle. It's unreasonable to assume that anybody who can last more than 10 seconds is stronger than Ukitake. If Yamamoto said they are the best duo in SS, it means they can overpower strong enemies by teamwork which suggests Ukitake doesn't get sick in approximately 10 seconds and can hold his own quite a while.

    And no, in a world in which people lose tons of blood with no ill effects, don't try to establish a connection between exertion and illness. Kubo didn't establish such a connection, on the contrary he implied Ukitake is quite a dangerous opponent. Don't overlook it.

  11. #24
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Just even suppousing that ukitake absorbs respira, it would rot his sword from inside and even if he has the time to direct the attack to Barragan there is the barrier that he has to counter his own respira

  12. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Josear XIII View Post
    Just even suppousing that ukitake absorbs respira, it would rot his sword from inside and even if he has the time to direct the attack to Barragan there is the barrier that he has to counter his own respira
    I dont see respira aging a zanpakutoh. I coud be wrong but A zanpakutoh is the most focused concentration of spiritual power in a shinigami. It would take a lot to destory it so completely. Why is everyone getting so hung up on Barragan saying his power is absolute?? Of course he'll say or even think that he was an arrgonat piece of S**T!! There is no such thing as an absolute power in bleach-weve seen time and time again that the effectiveness of an ability depends on reiatsu. Barragan has massive reiatsu yes but his reiatsu isnt the greatest. Starrk, Aizen, yamamoto, Shunsui and Ukitake all have higher reiatsu than him. His ability is kido in style so I dont think it would be as effective against someone stronger. If it was Aizen wouldnt have risked it and would have just killed him. My guess is aizen is just too much stronger and Barragan cant affect him the same way. It worked on Soi Fon and Hachi because they have average(for a captain) reiatsu. its not a good idea to put them in the same boat as powerhouse like Aizen, Yama, Uki, Shunsui, Starrk (and probably Unohana and Shinji).
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  14. #26
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    I dont see respira aging a zanpakutoh. I coud be wrong but A zanpakutoh is the most focused concentration of spiritual power in a shinigami. It would take a lot to destory it so completely.
    That's right. Yamamoto's zanpakuto immediately incinerates everything it touches but it didn't incinerate Shunsui and Ukitake's zanpakutos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    Why is everyone getting so hung up on Barragan saying his power is absolute?? Of course he'll say or even think that he was an arrgonat piece of S**T!! There is no such thing as an absolute power in bleach-weve seen time and time again that the effectiveness of an ability depends on reiatsu.
    Arrancars are arrogant and they overrate their own abilities. Nnoitra was sure nobody could cut him but he was proven wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    Barragan has massive reiatsu yes but his reiatsu isnt the greatest. Starrk, Aizen, yamamoto, Shunsui and Ukitake all have higher reiatsu than him.
    Yes, it's absurd to believe that people who have much more reiatsu than Barragan will fail in overcoming Barragan's defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    His ability is kido in style so I dont think it would be as effective against someone stronger. If it was Aizen wouldnt have risked it and would have just killed him. My guess is aizen is just too much stronger and Barragan cant affect him the same way.
    Possible, stronger reiatsu increases a person's resistance to being damaged. Hitsugaya's ice froze Shawlong to death but it didn't have the same effect on stronger enemies. Barragan was desiring to kill Aizen but he was not strong enough to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    It worked on Soi Fon and Hachi because they have average(for a captain) reiatsu. its not a good idea to put them in the same boat as powerhouse like Aizen, Yama, Uki, Shunsui, Starrk (and probably Unohana and Shinji).
    All those people are stronger than Barragan, Barragan did well against weaker opponents, he would be overwhelmed with bankai of one of these captains. Who knows, even shikai might be enough.
    Last edited by Gran Maestro; September 19, 2009 at 09:36 AM.

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  16. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    That's right. Yamamoto's zanpakuto immediately incinerates everything it touches but it didn't incinerate Shunsui and Ukitake's zanpakutos.



    Arrancars are arrogant and they overrate their own abilities. Nnoitra was sure nobody could cut him but he was proven wrong.



    Yes, it's absurd to believe that people who have much more reiatsu than Barragan will fail in overcoming Barragan's defense.



    Possible, stronger reiatsu increases a person's resistance to being damaged. Hitsugaya's ice froze Shawlong to death but it didn't have the same effect on stronger enemies. Barragan was desiring to kill Aizen but he was not strong enough to do it.



    All those people are stronger than Barragan, Barragan did well against weaker opponents, he would be overwhelmed with bankai of one of these captains. Who knows, even shikai might be enough.
    ditto on everything you said. Yeah I'm pretty sure at least aizen and Yamamoto can kill Barragan in shikai. I wander if Barragan cant stop ceros which he obviously cant otherwise he wouldnt be above Starrk, then would starrk need to release to kill him. COnsidering Starrk's reiatsureater surely hed just fire a Gran Rey Cero or something like that and one shot Barragan? That might be overkill i dunno but so far Starrk has been much, much more impressive than Barragan.
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  18. #28
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    I agree with hachigeneral, that if the illness pops in then it's over for ukitake...but since it's plot device it really doesn't have much importance...nevertheless it mus be counted, cuz even if 0.0001% to have a TB crisis, the chance is still there...on the rest of the discussion I kinda tend to agree with Mifune Taichou and co. why?
    Cuz I think zanpaktou's don't have age, they are closely connected with the shinigami so they depend on the shinigami's age, but it's shown that as long as a shinigami lives, the zanpaktou regenerates...the soul itself doesn't age, only the outer shell the shinigami does...I also agree that respira can be fended by reiatsu, becuz reiatsu can be heavy, strong=>so very strong reiatsu can do the job...but I think inly yama or aizen could accomplish such a feat...anyway I voted Ukitake and his easy win, becuz his zanpaktou can redirect respira, no matter how fast it is, he just needs to point his sword in the right direction...also in addition to his shikai ability, top level kido, or bankai can do the job

  19. #29
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Guys, you missed the point of that entire example. I'm saying in a prolonged fight with Barragan Luisenbarn the sickness can creep up on Ukitake. It isn't possible for Ukitake to end that fight quickly, Barragan has to be slowly picked apart unless you do the arm-warp thing on him. You can't just run in and melee him down quickly like Kenpachi would try...you gotta fight him with range or you die. Ukitake has a WEAK body as the captain commander said, and against Barragan, hes gonna give out. Ukitake is an old man guys...just accept it. You know it, I know it, and Ukitake knows it.
    I agree, in a long battle he would be at a disadvantage, and since captains don't go bankai at the first moment they get, so this gonna go in barragan's favour.
    but on the other hand, once we get to know ukitake's bankai, then we will get more info to debate on
    One more thing why is it that ppl say that he definitely cannot absorb respira, I mean like he absorbs ceros, ceros if they touch something then they explode right, they create an explosion or burn whatever at their first contact with something, so if he can absorb that then there's a possibility of him absorbing respira too, who know's maybe his shikai has some power to negate the side effects of of his opponent's attacks so he can freely absorb them and redirect them.

  20. #30
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavitre View Post
    I agree, in a long battle he would be at a disadvantage, and since captains don't go bankai at the first moment they get, so this gonna go in barragan's favour.
    but on the other hand, once we get to know ukitake's bankai, then we will get more info to debate on
    One more thing why is it that ppl say that he definitely cannot absorb respira, I mean like he absorbs ceros, ceros if they touch something then they explode right, they create an explosion or burn whatever at their first contact with something, so if he can absorb that then there's a possibility of him absorbing respira too, who know's maybe his shikai has some power to negate the side effects of of his opponent's attacks so he can freely absorb them and redirect them.
    Yep I agree...attacks in bleach nevermind the style are destructive in nature...barragan's as well...so I dare say it's not the issue of barragan can or can't age zanpaktou, but why the hell shouldn't uki's zanpaktou absorb respira?

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