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View Poll Results: Can Ukitake's shikai redirect respira?

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes,Ukitake can redirect Respira and have an easy win

    13 28.89%
  • No,Barragan respira is ultimate....

    11 24.44%
  • Ukitake would find another way to skip it,maybe his bankai....

    19 42.22%
  • Don?t know.....

    5 11.11%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    ... You know, thinking it over, Ukitake is the one with the highest likelyhood of taking down Barragon, provided his power works on Respiera. And here for a while I thought it was people with element powers that happen to attach to the target like Ice and Fire, but this has the greatest chance of working. Supremely so. Granted we don't know what would happen if two Respiera's clash, and Barragon's second ability might protect him if he sees it coming, but yeah, this is certianly an intriguing match up.

    Giving this to Ukitake, because absorbing mass Ceros that's contained power in such a small area can likely destroy a blade if it connects with only that is pretty much a similar deal, hence I'd find it highly unlikely that it would age given the very nature of it's power. And really, Barragon is RETARDED. 80-20 Ukitake if his power works regardless of the nature of the second ability, and 20-80 Barragon if it doesn't, though I'd need to know his Bankai first on that second verdict...

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  3. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    guys can respira work on zanpaktou too, I mean can it age a zanpaktou?
    One thing is that if you release a tremendous amount of spiritual power then I think that you can keep the respira at bay right?? Then could it be possible to cut through the respira by releasing spiritual energy and then using your zanpaktou?

  4. #33
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Doumo's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    Yep I agree...attacks in bleach nevermind the style are destructive in nature...barragan's as well...so I dare say it's not the issue of barragan can or can't age zanpaktou, but why the hell shouldn't uki's zanpaktou absorb respira?
    Because Respira is an absolute power, like Barragan showed with his very bones...

    That said Ukitake is a tactical fighter...Barragan is a tactical fighter...
    both aren't too fast (like WW showed), so it could be a good match...
    in the end I think that the experience of Ukitake could prevail expecially because if you've a ranged attack the respira really isn't a big deal...


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  6. #34
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Doumo View Post
    Because Respira is an absolute power, like Barragan showed with his very bones...

    That said Ukitake is a tactical fighter...Barragan is a tactical fighter...
    both aren't too fast (like WW showed), so it could be a good match...
    in the end I think that the experience of Ukitake could prevail expecially because if you've a ranged attack the respira really isn't a big deal...
    Yep and barragan was absolutely stupid...

    About barragan's tactic, he did not show much, though the nature and style of his ability implies he should be as U said tactical...about ukitake Ur 100% right...but the speed thing...comparing ukitake to WW is a bit much, since ukitake was oneshot and WW has a lot of latent potential...but barragan managed to surprise soi fon which is a feat and I wouldn't say they aren't too fast...it's just WW is a huge enigma right now...

  7. #35
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavitre View Post
    guys can respira work on zanpaktou too, I mean can it age a zanpaktou?
    One thing is that if you release a tremendous amount of spiritual power then I think that you can keep the respira at bay right?? Then could it be possible to cut through the respira by releasing spiritual energy and then using your zanpaktou?
    It has been shown to decay everything it has touched but it has not hit a zanpakto. However, since it dissolves Soul Reapers themselves why wouldn't it dissolve their weapon? The solution is not to run up and try hitting him like a moron but used ranged attacks. It doesn't even matter if it can decay Ukitake's weapon because it can decay him, and if he can't absorb it then it will move on to his body...

    I don't think Ukitake can absorb it because a sword taking in and shooting out gas would be silly. I can see taking in energy attacks but Respira looks like a deadly cloud of gas to me...meaning it is composed of particles and once they come in contact with the sword they will do what they do, decay it. His weapon is just absorbing the energy of the cero and giving it back but Respira seems like negative energy to me since it sucks away life from what it touches. It just isn't in the same category of a cero/energy attack which damages by heat I suppose.

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  9. #36
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Doumo's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Respira is a stupid ability that has only one good point: it can affect everything...there's only one person that could contrast it and it would be Orihime...since she's a goddess.... (I was being ironic)


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  10. #37
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    It has been shown to decay everything it has touched but it has not hit a zanpakto. However, since it dissolves Soul Reapers themselves why wouldn't it dissolve their weapon? The solution is not to run up and try hitting him like a moron but used ranged attacks. It doesn't even matter if it can decay Ukitake's weapon because it can decay him, and if he can't absorb it then it will move on to his body...

    I don't think Ukitake can absorb it because a sword taking in and shooting out gas would be silly. I can see taking in energy attacks but Respira looks like a deadly cloud of gas to me...meaning it is composed of particles and once they come in contact with the sword they will do what they do, decay it. His weapon is just absorbing the energy of the cero and giving it back but Respira seems like negative energy to me since it sucks away life from what it touches. It just isn't in the same category of a cero/energy attack which damages by heat I suppose.
    I looked up and shinigami also are in charge of managing souls...so managing souls from SS to humans...that implies souls are immortal, and they are reborn in different people over the time, of course if they are not destroyed by something during this time...
    The zanpaktou is their partner, their soul I think, even if it's portrayed as weapon...so I tend to think respira doesn't work...anyway it's not just a weapon

  11. #38
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Since when is Barragon a tactical fighter? His battle record consists of shooting respira until it hits something and taunt them at the futility of their fighting. Kenpachi is more of a tactical fighter than he is.

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  13. #39
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    Since when is Barragon a tactical fighter? His battle record consists of shooting respira until it hits something and taunt them at the futility of their fighting. Kenpachi is more of a tactical fighter than he is.
    At least he should be...respira is versatile...he could be melee type,too...instead...he's dead...

  14. #40
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Well, consider who Barragan was fighting. Omaeda was a comic relief character and Soifon was out of steam after launching a nuke that can't hurt Barragan anyway. He had her completely outclassed and just released...if he finished them in 1 minute flat like he could of then how can he have any fun in his released form? The guy just wanted to test out his powers and let his opponents try to hurt him, which they couldnt initially. Hachi shows up and Barragan thought he was just trying to make barriers to buy them a few minutes. How many of us honestly though Hachi was going to trap him in a barrier and have Soifon nuke him when respira eating threw barriers? I personally thought Hachi would use some other kidou when barriers looked useless.

    So from his point of view his opponents were so weak that it didn't matter what he did, they couldnt get through Respira and couldnt trap him. Now it is clear that when he feels the opponents present a threat he goes for the kill, like when he got damaged, he didn't stop the assault until respira connected. If it is 1v1 and his opponent is a threat like Ukitake may be (if he shows some techniques) then Barragan will adjust accordingly to defeat him. He has a lot of potential with that respira and axe, plus being a skeleton makes him more durable since everyone uses slashing weapons pretty much. Factor in anything that gets near him slows down and decays and he is only beatable by a select few based on powerscaling.
    Last edited by Hachigeneral; September 19, 2009 at 07:25 PM.

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  16. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Aikidoka's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    I voted the first option (Ukitake could redirect Respira), but I regret that after having read many of your arguments and opinions, all of which brought up many points I hadn't thought of.

    Barragan does say that his Respira is absolute -- besides, Hacchi used his decaying arm to kill Barragan, rather than turning the Respira back on him himself...

    Plus, there's also another thing. What if Ukitake can redirect Respira? What then if he launches it straight back at Barragan?

    Hacchi theorized that Barragan had some force field protecting him from his own Respira, which was pretty much proven correct. Let's say Ukitake does redirect the Respira, but it won't affect Barragan since it's attacking from the outside, not the inside as with Hacchi's case.

    So Ukitake's Shikai ability should not play a factor in this battle.

    As for people who say Ukitake is weak...

    In real life, TB (tuberculosis) does make people physically weak...but this is a Shounen. Ukitake can fight with TB, get to the rank of Captain with TB, have a normal conversation with other people with TB...he pretty much acts like a normal person, even though in real life this wouldn't be the usual case. Personally I think this raises Ukitake's awesomeness points for just being to fight toe to toe with the Primera while having TB. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that we really can't know how TB would affect Ukitake. We've seen that it occasionally comes up at inopportune moments (like with the Kaien flashback), but for most cases he seems to be pretty normal. Since it's not a constant thing, we also can't consider that a factor in the fight.

    Hate to say it since Ukitake's one of my fave, but ultimately I do think Barragan will win this fight. I mean, his Respira hit Soi Fon, who's the top tier in speed, next to Byakuya. I'm pretty sure Ukitake may lose a limb or two against Barragan...if not his life itself. =\

  17. #42
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member xXAshisogiJizoXx's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Ukitake shoudln't be able to redirect respira because it is essentially the speeding up of time in an area. how can you absorb spatial manipulation? i think it makes sense that kido that specializes in similar manipulation (such as...teleportation) would be able to beat him. also, aikidoka proves a good point, external redirected respira shouldn't work anyways. lots of people dismiss what barragan says about his ability being absolute due to his arrogance, but when a character says stuff like that, it is usually the authors way of explaining to the reader, so..it does have credibility in the sense that kubo is writing it, and a lack of it, since barragan is the one saying it

    anyways, i just want to note, with the **** vs Barragan threads popping up, that barragan is really an impractical character for this kind of thing. he was made by kubo for hachi (and perhaps hachigeneral as well). his powers seem so ridiculous that some go "omg barragan would be a god if he wasn't so stupid", while others are skeptical of it. i know all bad guys in bleach are tailor made for the good guy meant to kill'em, but barragan is such an extreme example of that, that having him fight anyone else will always result in the same thing; respira is absolute vs possible way around respira, neither of which can be proved
    Not Perfect is GOoD

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  19. #43
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    How do you absorb something like a cero? If it's an attack, in theory it can be absorbed and redirected. It can be blocked and stalled for a few moments with the right kind of materials, so by very nature you can argue it can be absorbed as well. Might not be the case, but there's certainly a plausible argument for it none the less. The fact that it can be stalled at all gives it a solid case to argue it, if it were just a wave that's literally unstoppable no matter what you throw at it then Barragon literally would be unbeatable.

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  21. #44
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member xXAshisogiJizoXx's Avatar
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    How do you absorb something like a cero? If it's an attack, in theory it can be absorbed and redirected. It can be blocked and stalled for a few moments with the right kind of materials, so by very nature you can argue it can be absorbed as well. Might not be the case, but there's certainly a plausible argument for it none the less. The fact that it can be stalled at all gives it a solid case to argue it, if it were just a wave that's literally unstoppable no matter what you throw at it then Barragon literally would be unbeatable.
    HAHA!
    once again you are right, leading to another arguement settled at opinion; its not the fact you related respira to a cero, cuz a cero is energy, which is not spatial manipulation, but the fact that it was stalled. however, this can be explained that the object being aged simply took longer to age. stalled and stopped are arguebly different; slowing down an attack to where it is seemingly motionless, vs completely nullifying an attack. but, once and again, all arguable, which leads to the second part of my post, barragan is ...well, annoyingly impossible to debate for (or against)
    Not Perfect is GOoD

  22. #45
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    Re: Jyuushiro Ukitake VS Barragan Luisenbarn

    Meant like a cero in the sense that really it's just a wave heading straight toward the opponent, yet just by touching the outer edge of it somehow it all gets absorbed into the blade in an instant and then fired back (Hence there wouldn't be any 'remains' of the respiera left that would screw Ukitake over), but you got the main point of contention that really throws everything into question, a sufficiently powerful and, theoretically, difficult to age force can ultimately stall and arguably stop his aging tech. Hence it can be argued either way. Which is ultimately why any of these debates will really boil down to opinion.

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