Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (7/21/14 - 7/27/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 503 by kewl0210 , One Piece 753 by cnet128 , Bleach 589 (2)

View Poll Results: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Isshin

    16 22.86%
  • Yamamoto

    52 74.29%
  • Ichigo would kick both their rears (Cannot decide/tie)

    2 2.86%
New Reply
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 90

Thread: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Ok this is pretty straight forward. If some of you would just discard Isshin right away (and I imagine most would), I would like to set the fight with power limited to what has been shown so far. That would mean no imaginary bankais or untold powers. Isshin hasn't shown much so far, and this is probably too early of an estimation, but considering how well he stood up to Aizen (better than the old man), I would say that he could at least rival Yama-ji.

    Both are ridiculously strong in terms of physical strength and extremely capable sword fighters. None of the shikai moves Yamamoto pulled out so far would have too much of an edge over Isshin's brutal Getsuga (in terms of power).

    I know it's been said that Yama is the most powerful shinigami in the last thousand years, but we don't know if that accounts for the Royal Guards, and there is some rumour Isshin may be one of them, with his mysterious mystery history and weird uniform. My bet so far would in fact go to Isshin, even though I'm a Yama fan.

    So, what do you guys think?
    Last edited by Xsoteria; June 12, 2010 at 06:03 PM.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    I think Yamamoto would win quite comfortably. Isshin did well against Aizen because he wasn't under hypnosis, Yamamoto without RJ would have demolished Aizen without KS. Yamamoto took a barrage of punches from one of strongest arrancars (most probably stronger than Stark, WW defeated bankai Kensei) and laughed it off. He proceeded to destroy the very same arrancar who had hierro(=steel skin) and crazy regeneration with his bare hands. I didn't see any other physical strength feat that remotely rivals Yamamoto's, Isshin doesn't stand a chance against him. Only Godzen and Ichigo super form (that will defeat Godzen) are better.

    P.S. Even if Isshin is a RG, it doesn't mean he is stronger. Was Hikifune stronger than Yamamoto too? I guess only the captain (and perhaps VC) of zero division is stronger than Yamamoto and he/she's over 1000 years old.

  3. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  4. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,801
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    This:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/406/01/

    or this:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/393/12-13/

    The difference is clear, at least to me. Isshin was able to play with Aizen for a little bit, but Isshin isn't under the effects of Kyoka Suigetsu.

    Yamamoto, who is, "purposefully" took a knife in the torso, had his zanpakutou ability sealed, destroyed Wonderweiss with his bare hands, and was blown up by his own ridiculous power (which still didn't entirely kill him). Then he activated a powerful kidou, which is still blows Isshin's Getsuga (and everything else Isshin did) out of the water.

    Not to mention Yamamoto can make a shinigami foam at the mouth with just a stare.

    Isshin is tough and all, but Yamamoto would butter him and eat him for breakfast.

  5. Thanks 5 Member(s) thanked this post
  6. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    KS was there more as a fear factor than anything else, it seems to me. It didn't really hinder Yamamoto in any way (other than the selfimpalement, which hardly left a trace on him).

    Also I would like to note that Yama's kido did considerably lesser damage to Aizen than Getsuga Tenshou. And on top of that, Aizen was in his fusion mode.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  7. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsoteria View Post
    KS was there more as a fear factor than anything else, it seems to me. It didn't really hinder Yamamoto in any way (other than the selfimpalement, which hardly left a trace on him).
    Aizen didn't fight Yamamoto, WW did. KS is a major inconvenience and anybody who disagrees must be following another manga.

  8. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  9. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Aizen didn't fight Yamamoto, WW did. KS is a major inconvenience and anybody who disagrees must be following another manga.
    KS is really the most dangerous weapon in Bleach so far, at least by my estimation. It's just that Aizen didn't use it in throughout Yama's fighting. Which really makes KS's existence sort of irrelevant for the purpose of estimating old man's abilities.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  10. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Bowser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,096
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Yamamoto - this man shines as the old grumpy man who spams flame. Don't really like him though. I don't see Isshin beating this guy. On the note:

    Quote Quote:
    Yamamoto states that the reason why he has been able to serve as the Captain-Commander of the Gotei 13 for over 1,000 years is because there hasn't been a Shinigami stronger than him born in all that time
    Even the Zero Division probably won't be able to best him (own opinion) - cuz if he's the strongest shinigami in all 1000 years, how could Zero Division, formed of former captains who are weaker than Yamamoto (I guess) be able to beat him?

    mehh I don't know whether we'll able to see Aizens Bankai but it probably will be something like erasing/distorting memories ¬¬

  11. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  12. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Katz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    I love Isshin's character, he's like a kooler version of Ichigo

    but in terms of Vs. against Old man Yama, from what Isshin has shown so far, I don't really see him having a chance against Yama, he might give yama a "true test" without lil tricks that Aizen pulled etc, but at the end of this battle Isshin is on the ground and Yama is calling him a "kid"

  13. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsoteria View Post
    KS is really the most dangerous weapon in Bleach so far, at least by my estimation. It's just that Aizen didn't use it in throughout Yama's fighting. Which really makes KS's existence sort of irrelevant for the purpose of estimating old man's abilities.
    I don't get your point, you say KS is dangerous and then disregard the difference between being under hypnosis and not being under hypnosis. Being under hypnosis changes the whole context.

    Aizen didn't fight Yamamoto, he stabbed him once, got caught and then WW interfered. If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, he wouldn't have let Aizen stab him and then gone kamikaze, he would have fought Aizen in normal ways just like Isshin did. And if Isshin was under hypnosis, Aizen could have defeated him just like he defeated other captains, I don't think Isshin could have done any better than other captains against KS.

    As you can see, KS is relevant and WW is also relevant because WW interfered and saved Aizen. Unless you argue that Isshin is also strong enough to shrug off barrage of punches from WW and then defeat him with his bare hands, I don't think we can say Isshin is stronger. RJ is the strongest zanpakuto, it means something, doesn't it?

  14. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  15. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Katz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    I don't get your point, you say KS is dangerous and then disregard the difference between being under hypnosis and not being under hypnosis. Being under hypnosis changes the whole context.

    Aizen didn't fight Yamamoto, he stabbed him once, got caught and then WW interfered. If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, he wouldn't have let Aizen stab him and then gone kamikaze, he would have fought Aizen in normal ways just like Isshin did. And if Isshin was under hypnosis, Aizen could have defeated him just like he defeated other captains, I don't think Isshin could have done any better than other captains against KS.

    As you can see, KS is relevant and WW is also relevant because WW interfered and saved Aizen. Unless you argue that Isshin is also strong enough to shrug off barrage of punches from WW and then defeat him with his bare hands, I don't think we can say Isshin is stronger. RJ is the strongest zanpakuto, it means something, doesn't it?
    I gotta agree with this guy, by time Isshin showed up Aizen was apparently "tired" and seemed to relinquish his Shikai all together, IMO if Isshin/Urahara had been under the affects of KS they wouldn't have looked as impressive as they did, I mean Aizen did just kinda stand there and eat attacks the entire time, with yama in his face he reacted.

    But hey people have they're opinion and such, but we've seen more impressive feats from gramps then Isshin so far IMO, though Isshin's GT on "GOD" Aizen was pretty damn impressive, still in my mind Yama > any members of the current and possibly former Gotei 13 (not counting H4X Aizen..he get saved by plot)



    Another post by "Gran Maestro" above mentioned the RG and he's right on that part as well, I mean unless the RG recruited a Captain Comm. from 2000+ years ago then Yama (which could be the case since the "King's key" location is only passed from one Captain Comm to the next, who could very well be the guy who heads up the RG,we'll see I guess) should infact be more powerful then the majority of them.

    And hell we haven't even got a notion of evidence of how powerful Yama's bankai is (its not in this scenario) even though its probably just more fire but if his RJ makes captains sweat, what do you think his bankai is capable of.....-Isshin- "clean up Ichigo, my pants"
    Last edited by Katz; June 13, 2010 at 04:18 AM.

  16. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  17. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    I don't get your point, you say KS is dangerous and then disregard the difference between being under hypnosis and not being under hypnosis. Being under hypnosis changes the whole context.
    It does, if Aizen is actually using the hypnosis. He didn't. I'm not sure I can make this any clearer than it is. KS is really a tough break, but it had no effect on any of what Yama did (other than the impalement which hardly did anything). I recognize the danger of KS, but the fact that Aizen never used it renders it irrelevant for this fight.

    Unless of course, you argue that the reason Aizen kicked all of the other captain's asses is because he was using KS while fighting them, and not because they're just that weaker than him. Which really is baseless assumption, since Kubo never implied that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    As you can see, KS is relevant and WW is also relevant because WW interfered and saved Aizen. Unless you argue that Isshin is also strong enough to shrug off barrage of punches from WW and then defeat him with his bare hands, I don't think we can say Isshin is stronger. RJ is the strongest zanpakuto, it means something, doesn't it?
    Of course RJ is the strongest zanpakuto. I just think that none of the abilities he has shown so far were much greater than that Getsuga Tenshou Isshin did. In theory, yes, Old Man has a stronger zanpakuto, but we aren't dealing with what his potential powers, we're dealing with what he has shown so far.

    I would also argue that Isshin has shown some real heavy endurance, at least compared to Yoruichi and Urahara. While they're knocked out cold, Isshin got back up in a matter of seconds. And I believe that the wooping he got from GodAizen is a much more serious than anything WW could dish out. Unless you argue that WW fought harder than GodAizen or something

    So that's endurance.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/398/18/
    I think this is a good indicator at what would Isshin do to WW with his bare hands.

    But that is rather irrelevant as I doubt they would choose to enter some fistfight when they could use their zanpakutos (although with limited techniques shown so far).
    Last edited by Xsoteria; June 13, 2010 at 07:18 AM.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  18. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,437
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Yamamoto's shikai is strong enough to create a captain-killing armegeddon:
    Spoiler show


    Nuff said, that's only his shikai too.
    Current Theories/Beliefs for Bleach:
    -Barragan and Halibel arn't goners yet-Confirmed
    -Ukitake has an absorb and redirect type shikai (think baby nel vs. Dardonii's cero)-Confirmed
    -The VL army/group that Aizen supposedly has doesn't exist-Pending/Waiting for confirmation on Wonderweiss
    -The Vizards have ulterior motives, by ulterior I mean they arn't just going to be goody-two-shoes and help out the SS that betrayed them just to get back at Aizen-Pending

  19. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Tibet
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsoteria View Post
    It does, if Aizen is actually using the hypnosis. He didn't. I'm not sure I can make this any clearer than it is. KS is really a tough break, but it had no effect on any of what Yama did (other than the impalement which hardly did anything). I recognize the danger of KS, but the fact that Aizen never used it renders it irrelevant for this fight.

    Unless of course, you argue that the reason Aizen kicked all of the other captain's asses is because he was using KS while fighting them, and not because they're just that weaker than him. Which really is baseless assumption, since Kubo never implied that.
    If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, would he have done what he did? No, he wouldn't. As a logical consequence, KS had an effect on what Yamamoto did. And IMO Aizen couldn't have defeated Shunsui, Shinji, Hitsugaya and Soifon without KS, KS provided him with the necessary opening to defeat them.

    Let me give an example: Suppose that I pointed a gun at you and tied you up. You argue that the gun is irrelevant in your being tied up because I didn't use the gun to shoot at you, I only threatened to use it. Aizen was holding a gun when he was against Yamamoto, Aizen wasn't holding a gun when he was against Isshin, the presence of a gun changes everything and as long as there's a gun, the gun is relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsoteria View Post
    Of course RJ is the strongest zanpakuto. I just think that none of the abilities he has shown so far were much greater than that Getsuga Tenshou Isshin did. In theory, yes, Old Man has a stronger zanpakuto, but we aren't dealing with what his potential powers, we're dealing with what he has shown so far.

    I would also argue that Isshin has shown some real heavy endurance, at least compared to Yoruichi and Urahara. While they're knocked out cold, Isshin got back up in a matter of seconds. And I believe that the wooping he got from GodAizen is a much more serious than anything WW could dish out. Unless you argue that WW fought harder than GodAizen or something

    So that's endurance.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/398/18/
    I think this is a good indicator at what would Isshin do to WW with his bare hands.

    But that is rather irrelevant as I doubt they would choose to enter some fistfight when they could use their zanpakutos (although with limited techniques shown so far).
    Godzen's attack was stronger than WW's but it did a considerable amount of damage to Isshin, WW's attacks did almost nothing to Yamamoto. Yamamoto withstood an attack which was strong enough to reduce an area many times bigger than KT to ashes, it took a much stronger attack to affect Yamamoto in the same way Isshin was affected. Yamamoto's endurance seems to be much better.

    And if you think GT seems more impressive than RJ's flames that can destroy multiple cities, I can't say I agree with you. Avoiding RJ is much harder than GT and RJ is more destructive.

  20. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  21. #14
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Gohan4585's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, would he have done what he did? No, he wouldn't. As a logical consequence, KS had an effect on what Yamamoto did. And IMO Aizen couldn't have defeated Shunsui, Shinji, Hitsugaya and Soifon without KS, KS provided him with the necessary opening to defeat them.

    Let me give an example: Suppose that I pointed a gun at you and tied you up. You argue that the gun is irrelevant in your being tied up because I didn't use the gun to shoot at you, I only threatened to use it. Aizen was holding a gun when he was against Yamamoto, Aizen wasn't holding a gun when he was against Isshin, the presence of a gun changes everything and as long as there's a gun, the gun is relevant.



    Godzen's attack was stronger than WW's but it did a considerable amount of damage to Isshin, WW's attacks did almost nothing to Yamamoto. Yamamoto withstood an attack which was strong enough to reduce an area many times bigger than KT to ashes, it took a much stronger attack to affect Yamamoto in the same way Isshin was affected. Yamamoto's endurance seems to be much better.

    Quote Quote:
    And if you think GT seems more impressive than RJ's flames that can destroy multiple cities, I can't say I agree with you. Avoiding RJ is much harder than GT and RJ is more destructive.
    If Isshin can teach Ichigo to beat Godzen with the Final GT I dont think Yamamoto would be able to beat Isshin... But aside from that I think Yama would own once he shows his bankai.


    They pay you to use their search engine!

  22. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Isshin vs. Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, would he have done what he did? No, he wouldn't. As a logical consequence, KS had an effect on what Yamamoto did. And IMO Aizen couldn't have defeated Shunsui, Shinji, Hitsugaya and Soifon without KS, KS provided him with the necessary opening to defeat them.
    Well, again, it only means that Yama would have perhaps used some other techniques rather than the self-destruct one, but it still doesn't affect the supposed fight here. He could have done something else, he could've also gone bankai, and Aizen could've also gone bankai - but then we would be in a completely metaphysical realm of maybes and would have to imagine what they would do. This is why I said that their arsenal would have to be the one they used so far. The arsenal used depended on the circumstances, of course, as it does with most fights, but that is, again, irrelevant for the purposes of this thread.

    I also don't agree with the fact that he used KS to beat up the captains, since it's pretty obvious that he's a beast, and I think Kubo would at least give us a hint that KS helped him defeat them. Since he didn't that's really just an assumption with no real basis. Of course, you could be right I suppose, but right now I don't see any reason to believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Godzen's attack was stronger than WW's but it did a considerable amount of damage to Isshin, WW's attacks did almost nothing to Yamamoto. Yamamoto withstood an attack which was strong enough to reduce an area many times bigger than KT to ashes, it took a much stronger attack to affect Yamamoto in the same way Isshin was affected. Yamamoto's endurance seems to be much better.

    And if you think GT seems more impressive than RJ's flames that can destroy multiple cities, I can't say I agree with you. Avoiding RJ is much harder than GT and RJ is more destructive.
    WW's attacks on Grandpa were considerably weaker than Aizen's and did considerably less damage. Aizen's attack on Isshin was considerably stronger than WW's and did considerably more damage.

    So far, we can't really tell any difference between their endurance. But lets introduce your 3rd variable.

    Yamamoto's own attack was perhaps the strongest and it knocked him out of the fight (killed him? Hopefully not). What does that change?

    It just means that there needs to be something really powerful to knock the old man out. Since in this case, moderately powerful attack didn't really knock out Isshin, I would say that there needs to be something really powerful to knock him out, as well.

    That sort of brings us to about the same estimation.
    Last edited by Xsoteria; June 13, 2010 at 12:11 PM.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

New Reply
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts