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View Poll Results: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

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  • Hitsugaya Toshiro

    18 25.71%
  • Barragan Luisenbarn

    52 74.29%
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Thread: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Who do you think would win beteen the two?

    On one hand we get barrgan. He has a massive ax for melee combat and the ability to manipulate time to some extent. In close range he seems to have a form of aura which causes anything around him to age in the short term. This was seen when he slowed soifon down, and when released the ability seemed to become even stronger. After releasing just being close to things made them rot, even the rocks omaeda threw at him rotted away. Then he has his most powerful ability, respira. It can basically break away any form of kido and if it infects the body, the only possible way to survive is to mutilate yourself. Should respira touch your torso, you are esentially done for. The speed respira has also seems to be quite something, soifon could not scape it for her life and hachi ultimately failed miserably when trying to avoid it(of course he did make the best of it lol)

    On the other hand we have hitsugaya. He has the power to control water and ice. He also has the power to create a type of ice which won't melt and even start covering the target on contact(see the battle he had against harribel and gin). He can also by all means control weather.

    So, what do you think? Could barragan actually age water(we know water has been water for millions of years right)? Or will hitsu see an early end to his youth?

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  3. #2
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    It has been discussed that water, fire...basically elements are hard to age. They are part of nature, they don't age...so hitsu's win 100%...
    It's a hard call if barragan can affect ice as well...but still hitsu...barragan is stupid and arrogant, whilst hitsu is a genius...

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  5. #3
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member deanmilanov's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Good point, Benelori, my neighbour. I also say Hitsu, though not so resolutely. Even if his weapon doesn't age, he still can age. Remember, Soifon lost an arm 'cause she couldn't outrun the respira. It would be cool if Baragan released a light respira, hit Toshiro with it and he became old man
    Last edited by deanmilanov; September 15, 2009 at 05:59 PM.
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  7. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    I'm just waiting for the Hitsuhaters to realise this thread is here and descend upon it like hyenas. Thats the only problem I have with this thread-it will be eventually be hijacked by the vast quantity of people who cant see past their irrational hatred of an anime character and ignore the fact that hes actually pretty damn good.

    With my rant over, I think I will give this one to Hitsugaya. Just as Barragan was the worst possible opponent for Soi Fon, people like Hitsugaya and Yamamoto should be the worst opponent for Barragan. I cant come up with a logical way to explain how he could age ice or water. These are not things that have a natural progression in time-they will not change their form with time rather they can only be affected by other conditions such as temperature over which Barragan has no control.

    With that said, his respire shouldnt be able to protect him and since he has nothing else I see him getting frozen quite quickly.

    Then again, kido shouldnt age either as from what I know its basically energy and energy surely cant "age". The fact barragan could age it seemed a stupid plot hole designed to make Hachi(or any good kido user) sweat against Barragan when they should have just curbstomped him.
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  9. #5
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by deanmilanov View Post
    Good point, Behelori, my neighbour. I also say Hitsu, though not so resolutely. Even if his weapon doesn't age, he still can age. Remember, Soifon lost an arm 'cause she couldn't outrun the respira. It would be cool if Baragan released a light respira, hit Toshiro with it and he became old man
    Neighbor U hit the bullseye...almost... I forgot respira is fast and can attack the enemy directly, but hitsu's ice can cover large areas and he can protect himself..it depends though on hitsu's speed...if respira caught on soi fon he is in trouble indeed

    PS:it's benelori, not behelori


    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    I'm just waiting for the Hitsuhaters to realise this thread is here and descend upon it like hyenas. Thats the only problem I have with this thread-it will be eventually be hijacked by the vast quantity of people who cant see past their irrational hatred of an anime character and ignore the fact that hes actually pretty damn good.

    With my rant over, I think I will give this one to Hitsugaya. Just as Barragan was the worst possible opponent for Soi Fon, people like Hitsugaya and Yamamoto should be the worst opponent for Barragan. I cant come up with a logical way to explain how he could age ice or water. These are not things that have a natural progression in time-they will not change their form with time rather they can only be affected by other conditions such as temperature over which Barragan has no control.

    With that said, his respire shouldnt be able to protect him and since he has nothing else I see him getting frozen quite quickly.

    Then again, kido shouldnt age either as from what I know its basically energy and energy surely cant "age". The fact barragan could age it seemed a stupid plot hole designed to make Hachi(or any good kido user) sweat against Barragan when they should have just curbstomped him.
    U just offended the hacchi fanatic(s)...hacchi was the perfect not pushovers like yama or hitsu...the rest 100% bingo...even the hitsuhater stuff
    Last edited by benelori; September 15, 2009 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  11. #6
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Barragan has this with the utmost of ease. Hitsuguya isn't on Hachi's level don't forget. Just because Hachi beat someone doesn't mean a little kid captain can. Theres a reason 2 vizards went to help Hitsuguya and only one went to help Soifon. The difference in strength.

    Okay, that was cold but listen guys. I reckon Barragan can age that ice since he can age kidou which is pure energy. In the Bleach Universe Barragan did say nothing lasts forever, so we'll have to assume he didn't forget about ice when he said that. It is conceivable that Hitsuguya's ice is held together with reiatsu because normal ice wouldn't hold those shapes he makes. I look at kidou as a pure form of reiatsu and Barragan could age that. I bet he turns Hitsuguya's ice into something that crumbles like feta.
    Last edited by Hachigeneral; September 15, 2009 at 05:59 PM.

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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Hitsugaya if Ice can't age (especially so if said ice allows him to defend with the wings), because Barragon is retarded. Barragon, obviously, if it can. That's pretty much how any matchup is going to work unless his stupidity hits it's height, which is what it took anyway to actually take him down.

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  14. #8
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Barragan has this with the utmost of ease. Hitsuguya isn't on Hachi's level don't forget. Just because Hachi beat someone doesn't mean a little kid captain can. Theres a reason 2 vizards went to help Hitsuguya and only one went to help Soifon. The difference in strength.

    Okay, that was cold but listen guys. I reckon Barragan can age that ice since he can age kidou which is pure energy. In the Bleach Universe Barragan did say nothing lasts forever, so we'll have to assume he didn't forget about ice when he said that. It is conceivable that Hitsuguya's ice is held together with reiatsu because normal ice wouldn't hold those shapes he makes. I look at kidou as a pure form of reiatsu and Barragan could age that. I bet he turns Hitsuguya's ice into something that crumbles like feta.
    Not really...reiatsu is actually turned into the element in question,and is not held together by reiatsu even if it's shaped by the it IMO, though it's just assumption...even kido has elemental attacks...I see UR point, and I think the ice crumbling is the best picture if ice can age...but then again ice is water essentially, which cannot age...it's a dilemma for me, but I say ice doesn't age

  15. #9
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    Barragan has this with the utmost of ease. Hitsuguya isn't on Hachi's level don't forget. Just because Hachi beat someone doesn't mean a little kid captain can. Theres a reason 2 vizards went to help Hitsuguya and only one went to help Soifon. The difference in strength.

    Okay, that was cold but listen guys. I reckon Barragan can age that ice since he can age kidou which is pure energy. In the Bleach Universe Barragan did say nothing lasts forever, so we'll have to assume he didn't forget about ice when he said that. It is conceivable that Hitsuguya's ice is held together with reiatsu because normal ice wouldn't hold those shapes he makes. I look at kidou as a pure form of reiatsu and Barragan could age that. I bet he turns Hitsuguya's ice into something that crumbles like feta.
    I think we need to be careful not to turn this into a Hachi v Hitsugaya thread because we will get punished for that. That being said though I cant let that slide. Hitsugaya not being on hachi's level is purely an assumption you have because as we all know you worship hachi. Thats just a fact of life. Its not a given to the rest of us because no one on the forums ranks Hachi as highly as you-in fact most people, myself included see him as average. If you want to discuss this further, make a Hachi vs Hitsugaya thread or something. (to mods: I'm not trying to start something, I'm rather trying to head this off this thread before it starts up)

    As i said previously there is no logical explaination why ice would age-water or ice cannot be compelled to change form over time. The only thing that can force such a change is a change in temperature which is outside Barragan's control. There really is no reasonable reason why Barragan should be able to age ice. If he isnt able to age it, then he wont be able to stop it. Hitsugaya's strenght is immense, dont fall into the trap of thinking it is not. If his bankai can give Starrk a wtf face(Starrk who is stronger than Barragan) then his bankai is truly impressive and coupled with its elemental properties I see Barragan at a disadvantage.
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  16. #10
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    I'm just waiting for the Hitsuhaters to realise this thread is here and descend upon it like hyenas. Thats the only problem I have with this thread-it will be eventually be hijacked by the vast quantity of people who cant see past their irrational hatred of an anime character and ignore the fact that hes actually pretty damn good.

    With my rant over, I think I will give this one to Hitsugaya. Just as Barragan was the worst possible opponent for Soi Fon, people like Hitsugaya and Yamamoto should be the worst opponent for Barragan. I cant come up with a logical way to explain how he could age ice or water. These are not things that have a natural progression in time-they will not change their form with time rather they can only be affected by other conditions such as temperature over which Barragan has no control.

    With that said, his respire shouldnt be able to protect him and since he has nothing else I see him getting frozen quite quickly.

    Then again, kido shouldnt age either as from what I know its basically energy and energy surely cant "age". The fact barragan could age it seemed a stupid plot hole designed to make Hachi(or any good kido user) sweat against Barragan when they should have just curbstomped him.
    I don't think the kido thing was that much of a plothole. IMHO the passage of time simply causes a kido to run out of energy, kinda like running out of batteries.

    On one hand, we have water, which will probably remain water for the next few millions of years. On the other hand, that water is being created and powered up by hitsugaya's reiatsu. I honestly have not idea on whether respira would affect the reiatsu within hitsugayas water.

  17. #11
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member xXAshisogiJizoXx's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    I'm just waiting for the Hitsuhaters to realise this thread is here and descend upon it like hyenas. Thats the only problem I have with this thread-it will be eventually be hijacked by the vast quantity of people who cant see past their irrational hatred of an anime character and ignore the fact that hes actually pretty damn good.

    With my rant over, I think I will give this one to Hitsugaya. Just as Barragan was the worst possible opponent for Soi Fon, people like Hitsugaya and Yamamoto should be the worst opponent for Barragan. I cant come up with a logical way to explain how he could age ice or water. These are not things that have a natural progression in time-they will not change their form with time rather they can only be affected by other conditions such as temperature over which Barragan has no control.

    With that said, his respire shouldnt be able to protect him and since he has nothing else I see him getting frozen quite quickly.

    Then again, kido shouldnt age either as from what I know its basically energy and energy surely cant "age". The fact barragan could age it seemed a stupid plot hole designed to make Hachi(or any good kido user) sweat against Barragan when they should have just curbstomped him.
    water can age in the sense it melts; water always has a certain percentage of molecules going from one phase to the next (ice to water, water to vapor), just its a really small percentage in cold temperatures, however, in a regular climate, such as FKK, baragan can cause the ice to melt as it does naturally, he doesn't need to increase temp, just speed up a process that occurs given time.

    energy can also age, in that it loses frequency. gamma rays; dangerous, but they eventually lose potentcy and form radiowaves; harmless. and there is the theory (might be a law, not sure) that the universe tends towards entropy over time, so any construct (which barriers are) will break down over time. basically, it wasn't a plot hole, time is absolute (im not saying baragan is,...cuz he's dead), but the idea behind his power is. fire is tricky, and ill probably be looking into that, cuz im a loser like that.

    anyways, im not saying this to be like "oh baragan is unstoppable except for hachi's cheats". rather, the more i think about how broken barragan's ability is, i dislike the character for it. as for the fight, if there is any way for hitsu to get past that ability, he will win for sure IMO, 100%. barragan's arrogance undermines any hint of skill or intelligence he has completely, making him unbalanced (unstoppable if you have no means against him, and a joke if you do). thats how i see it anyway.

    EDIT: sorry, i really dont want to give barragan any more support, but he is pretty f*cking durable after that point blank nuke, so, just to put that in ur calculations
    Last edited by xXAshisogiJizoXx; September 15, 2009 at 07:21 PM.
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  18. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Mifune_Taichou's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by xXAshisogiJizoXx View Post
    water can age in the sense it melts; water always has a certain percentage of molecules going from one phase to the next (ice to water, water to vapor), just its a really small percentage in cold temperatures, however, in a regular climate, such as FKK, baragan can cause the ice to melt as it does naturally, he doesn't need to increase temp, just speed up a process that occurs given time.

    energy can also age, in that it loses frequency. gamma rays; dangerous, but they eventually lose potentcy and form radiowaves; harmless. and there is the theory (might be a law, not sure) that the universe tends towards entropy over time, so any construct (which barriers are) will break down over time. basically, it wasn't a plot hole, time is absolute (im not saying baragan is,...cuz he's dead), but the idea behind his power is. fire is tricky, and ill probably be looking into that, cuz im a loser like that.

    anyways, im not saying this to be like "oh baragan is unstoppable except for hachi's cheats". rather, the more i think about how broken barragan's ability is, i dislike the character for it. as for the fight, if there is any way for hitsu to get past that ability, he will win for sure IMO, 100%. barragan's arrogance undermines any hint of skill or intelligence he has completely, making him unbalanced (unstoppable if you have no means against him, and a joke if you do). thats how i see it anyway.

    EDIT: sorry, i really dont want to give barragan any more support, but he is pretty f*cking durable after that point blank nuke, so, just to put that in ur calculations
    I see you points about the science behind it. You could be right but I think that would be pushing it because on the whole (and you seem to agree) time doesnt affect ice or water. His power would need to be broken beyond belief to exploit this. We dont know if it is. If it isnt Hitsu wins easy if it is then he loses. IMO Barragan prolly has very little to no actual skill because hes such an arrgoant **** and over reliant on his one single trick. If anyone got past that-dude is easy pickings which is why Starrk is ahead of him-ceros clearly beat him. Which sould mean hados beat him too. Its a pretty easy to imagine thing so the fact hachi didnt use hado doenst mean it wouldnt work I just think hachi isnt very good at it and he prefers his barriers.
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  19. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member xXAshisogiJizoXx's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune_Taichou View Post
    I see you points about the science behind it. You could be right but I think that would be pushing it because on the whole (and you seem to agree) time doesnt affect ice or water. His power would need to be broken beyond belief to exploit this. We dont know if it is. If it isnt Hitsu wins easy if it is then he loses. IMO Barragan prolly has very little to no actual skill because hes such an arrgoant **** and over reliant on his one single trick. If anyone got past that-dude is easy pickings which is why Starrk is ahead of him-ceros clearly beat him. Which sould mean hados beat him too. Its a pretty easy to imagine thing so the fact hachi didnt use hado doenst mean it wouldnt work I just think hachi isnt very good at it and he prefers his barriers.
    agreed and disagreed. an overwhelming offense of energy would be able to beat barragan's ability (great image; barragan challenges stark to fight, stark lazily raises his gun and say "cero oscuro metralleta"...), and tessai's god hado. but, i was arguing that water can in fact be affected by respira, as hitsu cannot directly manipulate liquid water. also, water being a molecule, a construct, can be broken down, and does so often. molecules of water have existed for millions of years, but its not the same molecules, then we'd all be drinking old water (i kid). and after supporting barragan once again, i dislike him that much more.

    PS: fire (aka yama) would rape barragan. the most his respira could do against a blaze is turn a slow-burning-demise into a quick death
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  20. #14
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Hachigeneral's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by xXAshisogiJizoXx View Post
    water can age in the sense it melts; water always has a certain percentage of molecules going from one phase to the next (ice to water, water to vapor), just its a really small percentage in cold temperatures, however, in a regular climate, such as FKK, baragan can cause the ice to melt as it does naturally, he doesn't need to increase temp, just speed up a process that occurs given time.

    energy can also age, in that it loses frequency. gamma rays; dangerous, but they eventually lose potentcy and form radiowaves; harmless. and there is the theory (might be a law, not sure) that the universe tends towards entropy over time, so any construct (which barriers are) will break down over time. basically, it wasn't a plot hole, time is absolute (im not saying baragan is,...cuz he's dead), but the idea behind his power is. fire is tricky, and ill probably be looking into that, cuz im a loser like that.

    anyways, im not saying this to be like "oh baragan is unstoppable except for hachi's cheats". rather, the more i think about how broken barragan's ability is, i dislike the character for it. as for the fight, if there is any way for hitsu to get past that ability, he will win for sure IMO, 100%. barragan's arrogance undermines any hint of skill or intelligence he has completely, making him unbalanced (unstoppable if you have no means against him, and a joke if you do). thats how i see it anyway.

    EDIT: sorry, i really dont want to give barragan any more support, but he is pretty f*cking durable after that point blank nuke, so, just to put that in ur calculations
    That was a good analysis. So not only is there the possibility that Barragan can age the reiatsu in Hitsuguya's ice, but the fact that Ice being held at normal temperatures for extended periods of time makes it evaporate. Yeah, sorry guys, but Hitsuguya can't win this fight.

    I'll be honest though, Hitsuguya has some spunk. I'd say the fight would go like Soifon's. Basically long enough for him to use his best attacks, then gas out, then have Hachi come and save him. Face it guys, Barragan is hard to beat, I dont get why people won't admit it. The way he was written makes him hard to beat, as in only a specific character can take him out.

    Ya know what though, maybe Barragan would finish Hitsuguya faster than Soifon considering he wouldn't be able to dodge the respira as well as her. She is confirmed faster than him IMO. I guess this is another Stomp in Barragan's favor....give the Hollow King a challenge please.
    Last edited by Hachigeneral; September 15, 2009 at 08:04 PM.

  21. #15
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member xXAshisogiJizoXx's Avatar
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    Re: The king of the clouds vs the king of Hueco mundo: Hitsugaya Toshiro vs Barragan Luisenbarn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachigeneral View Post
    That was a good analysis. So not only is there the possibility that Barragan can age the reiatsu in Hitsuguya's ice, but the fact that Ice being held at normal temperatures for extended periods of time makes it evaporate. Yeah, sorry guys, but Hitsuguya can't win this fight.

    I'll be honest though, Hitsuguya has some spunk. I'd say the fight would go like Soifon's. Basically long enough for him to use his best attacks, then gas out, then have Hachi come and save him. Face it guys, Barragan is hard to beat, I dont get why people won't admit it. The way he was written makes him hard to beat, as in only a specific character can take him out.

    Ya know what though, maybe Barragan would finish Hitsuguya faster than Soifon considering he wouldn't be able to dodge the respira as well as her. She is confirmed faster than him IMO. I guess this is another Stomp in Barragan's favor....give the Hollow King a challenge please.
    Thank you for the compliment! i do beleive that barragan has this one, however, if there is anyway for hitsu to win, even if it was so slight, barragan arrogance would make it into a landslide victory for hitsu. also, hachi is not the only person who can beat barragan. statistically, yes, barragan is one of the most powerful entities in bleach, but if i may use a play one his own words "My EGO is absolute, stats are naught before it!!!"...including his own, which is ironic as he is vulnerable to his own power in the same way. also, i don't know how many people you are fooling, but it seems pretty obvious ur support of barragan is an indirect way of supporting hachi (the person who beat him)
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