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Yes, a sudden thought that struck me.
Before people immediately write off the quincy, remember the puppet trick. The one he uses against Mayuri when his paralysis poison took his arm.
I'm inclined towards Ishida on this one myself. By very nature of being a quincy, he can deconstruct his own arrows if they are caught, and add that to the Quincy spells and the ability to make those Reiatsu wall/platform things he could easily defend from the sight much like Byakuya did. And if his limbs are caught, he can overpower them with the puppet trick.
Edit: Hmm... not sure how to do a poll now that I think of it...
Last edited by Random101; September 21, 2009 at 10:52 PM.
Ishida is slow and/or unaware of his surroundings and got caught by Szayel's venus flytrap extensions, so he is slow enough to have his head looked at by Zommari and lose total control of his body. It may have caught Mayuri too but he had all his organs replaced to show off so that doesn't matter. I'd expect someone like Byakuya to move out of the way when he saw Szayel's extensions coming at him. Anyway, the puppet trick won't save him from a head shot and Zommari stomps with sheer speed before even releasing. If Zommari is ~ Byakuya speed then Ishida can't keep up. In fact, Ishida is about fraccion level just like Chad, what a mismatch.
Last edited by Hachigeneral; September 22, 2009 at 05:30 AM.
Ishida managed to stay alive in front of R2 Ulquiorra. That does not sound like fraccion level to me. I'd say he's somewhere between fraccion and espada's level, but if we place him against Zommari, i suppose his intelligence will make up for his lack of sheer strenght.
I too think that Ishida has many tricks up its sleeve that hasn't yet shown...or maybe I should say "up its belt"...
Ok... Even if ishida used the puppet trick to bypass zomari's power(for which he would still have to break his arm so that his own body won't fight against the threads), he would still be more than absurdly inferior in terms of speed, reiatsu, strength and practically every other concievable factor which could decide the battle except for intelligence. Ishida is superior to a privaron espada but he is nowhere near the espada level. IMHO in a one on one fight any espada would destroy him without any actual effort, sweat or even releasing. Maybe he could stand a chance against arroniero given that the guy has a fishbowl for a head(of course if arroniero is careful and does not lower his guard to protect his fishbowl head he will RAPE and spit on ishida easily and without breaking a sweat)
Actually I think Ishida could take this one. I think he is fast enough to not die straight away and if he can get Zomari to release its even better for him.
Ishida is low espada level right now imho and his unique abilities could see him thorugh. He is btw far, far above any fraccion we've seen so far.
His speed is pretty impressive, it isnt at Zommari or byakuyas level but hes pretty damn fast.
Considering how he can spam arrows)so zommari cant possible dodge or control all of them. In his released state Zommari will also be easy pickings for sprenger.
There is also the puppet technique thing which could allow him to counter ammor and as Duomo said he could use those reishi platforms to block amor as well. There is also arguably his strongest attack-Light Regen which looked effing badass.
However, we saw Zommari survive one hit from Goukei-he died straight after but he still survived the immediate hit. Which means Ishida will have to hit him with something as strong which i dnt think he has because hes no where near byakuyas level or he'll have to hit with Sprenger and Light Regen several times to do enough damage. I kinda see this playing out as a bore draw rather than a win for anyone outright actually-I can sort of see Ishida countering Zommari's release but then not being able to kill him.
Of course if Ishida could access Final Form again hed absolutely paste ZOmmari(along with most of the espada lol) but that wont be happening any time soon.
R2 Ulq can stomp Zommari into the ground too so it doesn't make a diff...just saying Ishida did nothing to show he is even above fraccion level yet. Ulquiorra's face even has that "what a joke" look on that page. Charging at Ulquiorra with a sword wasn't that intelligent either, he only lasted like...1 second?
I honestly doubt ishida's normal arrows would work on zomari at all even if they hit. Seele scheneider could work but then again it would have to actually hit zomari. Ishida is strong but I honestly doubt he is at the level where he could fight on par with an espada. It is blantantly obvious ishida is by far above the fraccion level(which is merely at about a VC level BTW) but IMHO such a statement is meaningless in a threat such as this one because the difference between a espada and a fraccion is the same as with a captain and a vice captain. Ishida can fight on par with the privaron espada which means he merely is close to the level of a espada but by no means he can hope to defeat one.
I think its importnat that Kt revist this final form thing. Like can Ishida learn to access it at will-I have a feeling Ryukken can.
Final Form Ishda would absolutely destroy most espada so if he could learn to use it at will or even access it once again every Ishida vs Thread would look a bit differently.
Personally I think he covers the base captain and espada level. Why? well Ikakku is supposed to be able to become a captain and I'm pretty sure ishida would make a fool of him.
Also I think Ishida would destroy Arroniero. These are both examples of teh extreme low end Espada and captains powerscale but I think he covers that. Now whether he can kill a higher ranked Espada I'm not sure. if he could kill any it would be Zommari because he could counter his Amor.
EDIT: Lol not that it matters but ishida is owning in the poll.
Last edited by Mifune_Taichou; September 22, 2009 at 06:04 PM.
IMHO ishida is well above the measly VC level (at which currently we would find renji, ikkaku, matsumoto and hisagi for instance) but just being above VC level does not mean you are captain or espada level.
Ishida got easily owned by szayel and he wasn't even the fighting type. Zomari is in terms of speed, power and strength clearly superior to szayel, he wouldn't even need to release to make short work of ishida, specially if the fight is one on one. I know the espada have been defeated lately but I do think people here do not give them nearly enough credit.... I hope the espada do not suffer the same fate hitsugaya had(where people went as far as saying even the VC or VC level dudes could defeat him)
Zommari vs. Ishida is a tough one, particularly because Zommari's fight is a bit questionable considering the circumstances.
Let's examine what happened in the battle...Byakuya shows up, Zommari asks his name...Byakuya immediately gives Zommari a verbal middle finger. "I don't need to give my name blah blah blah", making Zommari feel inferior. Byakuya continues the trolling as the fight continues, humiliating and degrading Zommari more and more.
Immediately this becomes a battle for pride rather than one out of loyalty. It's clear Zommari was pissed, since he started bragging about his powers and about how he's actually the superior one, rather than just fighting normally.
IMO Byakuya made a smart move -- whether or not he insulted Zommari intentionally or it was just part of his nature, it had the intended effect, which was making Zommari show off too much.
Every single one of Zommari's moves in the battle were intended to humiliate Byakuya for the initial insult. Trying to prove that Byakuya is stupid...attacking Rukia to try to make Byakuya lose his cool...
Everything was done to bump Byakuya down a few notches and teach him a lesson for being too arrogant. But Byakuya matched all his moves and kept insulting him further. In the end it was Zommari who lost his cool...
I guess it might seem off-topic bringing this into the discussion, but Zommari didn't fight at his full capabilities in his battle. Rather, he was tricked by Byakuya into revealing too much of his hand, losing his concentration, and generally fighting stupidly. Unlike Barragan, who was stupid/proud already, Zommari was just trying to prove a point and get payback for having been insulted the entire fight.
My point is, Zommari is extremely susceptible to losing his cool in a fight. Someone like Uryuu who's a snob like Byakuya, could exploit that and use it to his advantage. If Zommari reveals too many of his abilities, then Uryuu, being a tactical fighter like Byakuya, could also devise a quick counter...if not with Kidou then with something else.
With the personality Uryuu has, I wouldn't put it past him to insult Zommari a few times in a battle, and with the personality Zommari has, I would expect him to fight dumb. It doesn't matter what Zommari could do, if he's tricked into not fighting at full power.
So IMO Uryuu, despite being weaker than Zommari on many accounts, would still win this battle.
The above post is a very nice argument for Uryu winning. However, Byakuya still had to overcome Zommari's clone trick in order for Zommari to feel compelled to release his Zanpaktou. I wouldn't expect him to release prior to attacking his opponent in base, and this is where Uryu would have a problem. Whether Zommari's boast about his Sonido was correct or not, he clearly has high Captain level speed, and while Uryu is above VC level, especially in terms of speed imo, he does not have the required speed to avoid being overcome by Zommari. He and Mayuri were in the same ballpark prior to his Final Quincy Form, and Byakuya's speed >>> Mayuri's imo. So unless Uryu really manages to antagonize Zommari and gets him to release before even trying to attack him, I would expect Zommari to win this