Berserk 307 Discussion

[ameya730]

What, exactly, do you mean by "some power"...? Lord Spaghetti forbid that Guts actually begins to cast spells and summon elemental gods to do his bidding...

If he were to gain a power of some kind, I'd hope for something altogether more subtle yet incredibly useful to a warrior like Guts (which moves me nicely onto another out there theory I've conjured)...

I've been thinking... Ever since we were exposed to the astral world and the workings thereof, I've often wondered if the spirit/astral form of Guts' left arm remained after the flesh and bone were hacked off at the Eclipse. Thing is, now that the merging has closed the gap between the corporeal and astral worlds, perhaps this has/will enable/d Guts to manipulate the fake hand through his "phantom limb"...

Whether his astral form went unaffected at the Eclipse, he might still learn to, like Schierke, shape his spirit and extend it beyond his physical self, thereby enabling him to control the fake hand. I mean, it'd certainly be more interesting than Guts having his arm fully restored - skin, bone, tissue and all - via magical means.

Anyway, this may or may not bear relevance/significance, but I read elsewhere that the 308 preview image contains a "clink" sound effect by the fake hand...

i dont think guts needs any kind of powerups cause miura has added characters in the manga which have been sort of like a powerup for guts

in short his companions are his powerups they help him fight his loneliness because of which he is developing a more softer side his friends protect caska because of which he can fight without restraint every person included in his group has made him stronger

he is forming his own band and at the same time developing powers to help him for instance the witch gives him AOE spells serpico and the small guy gives him guerrilla tactics, farnese is a slowly becoming an able body guard to protect caska while his berserk armour makes him a tank

if this were a rpg this would be the perfect party

[lapchern]

would be pretty cool if elf king can restore guts' left hand and/or right eye... it's not that much of a stretch for it to happen IMO

also... as skull knight warned, i hope things dont get from bad to worse once Casca is "healed," like leave Guts and everyone to go at griffith by herself or, even worse, join him.

[cassaruby]

would also be pretty cool if the elf king was slain and a monster bit off Guts leg so all he got in Elfheim was a pegleg.

[CBlitz]

Oh yeah I just remembered that the Dragon-sword Guts has is magical. Something to do with it absorbing the apostles power/bloodlust/w/e

if he powers it up, he could use it to hurt Femto

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

I think he's already in the process of forming one. I mean, back in the Black Swordsman Arc, he was all alone, now let's look at all the companions he has: Puck, Farnese, Serpico, Isidro, Schierke, Evarella, Roderick, Magnifico, Azan... And while he isn't travelling with him, I wouldn't be surprised if Rickert joins Guts again for the final showdown with Griffith. And there's still Casca, if she can be healed and decides to stay on Guts's side.

Yeah, but as it stand, he is going to need a larger and more powerful band to go against the new Band of Hawk.

Anyways, i can't wait to see what Casca decision is going to be after she is healed. Will she stay with Guts, and help him fight against Griffith? Or will she betray Guts effort for her, and go join Griffith?

---

What, exactly, do you mean by "some power"...? Lord Spaghetti forbid that Guts actually begins to cast spells and summon elemental gods to do his bidding...

Some power that will make him stronger. A power that fit his style. I'm sure Guts wouldn't be gaining power that will allow him to summon elemental gods and cast spells. That is not style.

---

would be pretty cool if elf king can restore guts' left hand and/or right eye... it's not that much of a stretch for it to happen IMO

also... as skull knight warned, i hope things dont get from bad to worse once Casca is "healed," like leave Guts and everyone to go at griffith by herself or, even worse, join him.

Guts left hand getting restore will be wack. It will be better if he get an update for the metallic hand. The metallic hand is more resourceful to him, than a normal hand will be. And at this stage i think him getting his left hand restore will be a disadvantage to him.

But i wouldn't mind him getting his eye restore that much.

[Snake_Cowboy]

Yeah, but as it stand, he is going to need a larger and more powerful band to go against the new Band of Hawk.

Anyways, i can't wait to see what Casca decision is going to be after she is healed. Will she stay with Guts, and help him fight against Griffith? Or will she betray Guts effort for her, and go join Griffith?

That's true, but honestly: no matter how many soldiers Guts could get on his side, he'll still be at a disadvantage. Griffith is now the leader of all of Midland's armies and he has Apostles on his side. No matter what, Guts will always be outnumbered. But perhaps against overwhelming power like Griffith's, a small group can accomplish more by stealth than any army. In the end, I figure it's going to be a one-on-one between Guts and Griffith and Guts's friends can only aid him in getting there - Guts will face his nemesis by himself.

As for Casca, I'm starting to think more and more that she'll join Griffith. She was his most loyal soldier and I think Casca doesn't want anything to happen to him because her and Guts's son is part of Griffith now. I don't she'll 'betray' Guts exactly - if she regains her memory, she'll probably remember everything that Guts did to protect her and she'll be grateful for that. But perhaps she'll come to the conclusion that, no matter what, she must help Griffith.

(I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but bear with me)

However, I think this will be a mistake on Casca's part. I've had this theory for the final battle of Berserk for a while now...

After this chapter, it's certain that Griffith will become king - perhaps not just of Midland, but the whole world. In all purposes, Griffith has not just achieved his dream, he's gone far beyond it. But I think Griffith still won't be satisfied. Something will keep gnawing at him and he might ask the other members of the God-Hand for advice for what it is. Then it'll be revealed that Griffith is still not satisfied because he's incomplete: the ceremony of the Eclipse wasn't entirely right because Guts and Casca (people marked for sacrifice by the Brand) didn't die. The God-Hand will reveal to Griffith that the only way he'll ever feel at peace is if he finishes the job that he started back at the Eclipse by sacrificing the original Band of the Hawk.

Meanwhile, Casca will come back to him and despite the hesitancy he feels in his body (because her and Guts's son is part of him), Griffith kills her. He then sends the Apostles to fetch him Guts. Somehow, Guts learns of Casca's death (perhaps Griffith even boasts of killing her in order to provoke Guts into seeking him out) and completely snaps. Griffith's final act of treachery re-awakens all of Guts's rage and his desire for vengeance.

Guts initially goes out alone, slaughtering every Apostle that gets in his way, but is eventually overwhelmed by all of Griffith's forces sent to capture him. At this point, Guts's friends return to save him and once they realise they can't stop him from his goal, they help him gain entrance to Falconia. Thanks to their efforts, Guts gets in, kills everything in his path and finally faces Griffith.

How their final duel would play out, I have no idea. But I'm certain something like this will happen near the end of the series. Lately, Guts has only thought of protecting Casca and his friends - something big needs to happen to make Guts snap and seek out Griffith again, thereby bringing the series full circle.

[lapchern]

^^ interesting thoughts.

one thing i also anticipate is that griffith will achieve/surpass his goal, and then be in the "now what?" attitude. This would lead him to maybe get the demons to take over the world and treat humans as slaves/pets. unfortunately i have a feeling that casca will rejoin griffith upon the return of her memories as well.

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

That's true, but honestly: no matter how many soldiers Guts could get on his side, he'll still be at a disadvantage. Griffith is now the leader of all of Midland's armies and he has Apostles on his side. No matter what, Guts will always be outnumbered. But perhaps against overwhelming power like Griffith's, a small group can accomplish more by stealth than any army. In the end, I figure it's going to be a one-on-one between Guts and Griffith and Guts's friends can only aid him in getting there - Guts will face his nemesis by himself.

Yeah, i guess the final showdown will be more of Guts and his few allies vs Griffith and his top dogs, than it will be a mass military campaign.

As for Casca, I'm starting to think more and more that she'll join Griffith. She was his most loyal soldier and I think Casca doesn't want anything to happen to him because her and Guts's son is part of Griffith now. I don't she'll 'betray' Guts exactly - if she regains her memory, she'll probably remember everything that Guts did to protect her and she'll be grateful for that. But perhaps she'll come to the conclusion that, no matter what, she must help Griffith.

I think that would still be a betrayal on Casca part. I believe her going to Griffith in any form of way will be a betrayal of Guts effort for her.

(I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but bear with me)

However, I think this will be a mistake on Casca's part. I've had this theory for the final battle of Berserk for a while now...

After this chapter, it's certain that Griffith will become king - perhaps not just of Midland, but the whole world. In all purposes, Griffith has not just achieved his dream, he's gone far beyond it. But I think Griffith still won't be satisfied. Something will keep gnawing at him and he might ask the other members of the God-Hand for advice for what it is. Then it'll be revealed that Griffith is still not satisfied because he's incomplete: the ceremony of the Eclipse wasn't entirely right because Guts and Casca (people marked for sacrifice by the Brand) didn't die. The God-Hand will reveal to Griffith that the only way he'll ever feel at peace is if he finishes the job that he started back at the Eclipse by sacrificing the original Band of the Hawk.

Meanwhile, Casca will come back to him and despite the hesitancy he feels in his body (because her and Guts's son is part of him), Griffith kills her. He then sends the Apostles to fetch him Guts. Somehow, Guts learns of Casca's death (perhaps Griffith even boasts of killing her in order to provoke Guts into seeking him out) and completely snaps. Griffith's final act of treachery re-awakens all of Guts's rage and his desire for vengeance.

Guts initially goes out alone, slaughtering every Apostle that gets in his way, but is eventually overwhelmed by all of Griffith's forces sent to capture him. At this point, Guts's friends return to save him and once they realise they can't stop him from his goal, they help him gain entrance to Falconia. Thanks to their efforts, Guts gets in, kills everything in his path and finally faces Griffith.

How their final duel would play out, I have no idea. But I'm certain something like this will happen near the end of the series. Lately, Guts has only thought of protecting Casca and his friends - something big needs to happen to make Guts snap and seek out Griffith again, thereby bringing the series full circle.

Nice theory. But i hope Casca doesn't die, or leave Guts for Griffith.

[102jayday]

I believe caska won't leave guts.
Did Ricket??? he was but when Gut's told him what happen in the esciplse he wanted to fight along side with guts but he had to stay. People forget his the 3rd one of the hawks alive thanks to skull knight.
the fact is Caska does not want to remember, she only wants to remember the part before guts left griffith in the snow.
I still think moonlight child will have a part to play, the beast of darkness will take over guts soon, because in the ship he warned him he would be back. If Caska died by griffith then guts would awake the beast of darkness.

Griffith's Top Dogs will fight guts team, but i feel like seprico will do most of the work in that, if isijro gets some huge change at elfheim then maybe he will have something to do, but i feel like him and sheikre will fight sonia and mule. who knows what farness will do, maybe take out some normal aspostles. I feel like Guts and Griffith will fight two more times, maybe Griffith will kidnap Caska, because caska won't join him by free will if she remembers what griffith did to them all.
But i feel like Princess Charlotte will get some god hand/aspostle power and then her and caska will have a bitch fight to the death in one of the final battles.

[lapchern]

hehe caska vs apostle charlotte would be epic

[Captain Kidd]

would be pretty cool if elf king can restore guts' left hand and/or right eye... it's not that much of a stretch for it to happen IMO

These are Gutts' defining characteristics, along with his bastard sword. Why the hell would he do that and reduce his fighting arsenal at the same time?

would also be pretty cool if the elf king was slain and a monster bit off Guts leg so all he got in Elfheim was a pegleg.

That would be stupid.

if he powers it up, he could use it to hurt Femto

He could hurt Femto with the sword he has now.


The only problem is...Femto is far too strong for Gutts, powered up sword or not.

[SparkHunter13]

@ ameya:

I somewhat agree... (His companions are his power-ups - that's a good way to put it.)

However, don't you feel that Guts, as an individual, has rapidly become underpowered since the introduction of magic proper? For instance, if he were to fight Serpico again (equipped with the Sylph's Cloak and Sword this time) in an one-on one battle, can you undoubtedly say that he'd leave the battlefield, not only unscathed, but, at all?

Guts could do with something to level the playing field, in my opinion. Yes, his companions provide that to a large degree when tackling apostles or the like, but Guts understands the importance of self-reliance and his companions won't always be around to protect him or enhance his attacks.

@ Snake:

Yeah, interesting thoughts, Snake...

Have to say, though, this idea of Griffith/Femto being incomplete doesn't sit well with me... If he were lacking in any way, why hasn't it been mentioned at all? Miura has given no indication that Griffith is or feels as such, as far as I know; but most of all, I think it'd be a little anticlimactic for Berserk to go down that route, myself. I mean, for Griffith to finally achieve his dream and take his coveted kingdom, then... nothing... but a hollow feeling? Is that really what the Idea of Evil (Miura) intends for Griffith? Methinks not.

These are Gutts' defining characteristics, along with his bastard sword. Why the hell would he do that and reduce his fighting arsenal at the same time?

Exactly. And let's not forget what his left arm - or lack thereof - symbolises... The memory of his fallen comrades, as well as the Eclipse itself, would be cheapened were his arm (or eye, for that matter) ever fully restored.

That said, in terms of swordsmanship, a real hand is almost always better than a fake one, despite any extra features it may have.

P.S. The Dragon Slayer ain't of the bastard variety; it's an out-and-out two-handed sword.

[ameya730]

@ ameya:

I somewhat agree... (His companions are his power-ups - that's a good way to put it.)

However, don't you feel that Guts, as an individual, has rapidly become underpowered since the introduction of magic proper? For instance, if he were to fight Serpico again (equipped with the Sylph's Cloak and Sword this time) in an one-on one battle, can you undoubtedly say that he'd leave the battlefield, not only unscathed, but, at all?

Guts could do with something to level the playing field, in my opinion. Yes, his companions provide that to a large degree when tackling apostles or the like, but Guts understands the importance of self-reliance and his companions won't always be around to protect him or enhance his attacks.

ok lets compare both guts and serpico

guts has --- dragon slayer berserk armour fake hand which contains explosives and throwing knives

serpico --- slyph cloak and sword agility and intelligence

when guts fought against serpico during the get back farnese chapters the location was chosen by serpico since it was to his advantage whereas guts was constrained

guts did not use the berserk armour nor did he use his fake hand

inspite of all this at the end it was guts who ended up winning the fight so i dont think guts needs a powerup if anything the other guys need a powerup instead of guts

you know its funny but guts is the only character for whom i cant think of a powerup the rest of the group i can easily imagine caska gets her mind back (considering the state she is in it would definitely be a powerup )

the witch and farnese become more proficient in magic the witch gets a new staff that amplifies her magic

serpico upgrades his sword to become more powerful same with the small guy

[SparkHunter13]

@ ameya:

Alright, let's make one thing clear: In a straight battle of muscle, steel and willpower, Guts cannot be outmatched - that's pretty obvious. Even Griffith, who was thought invincible on the battlefield, fell to Guts in a single blow. However, once magic is introduced to the equation it becomes an entirely different kettle of fish.

Serpico was able to hold his own (for a while) against Guts on both occasions, despite having only conventional tools at his disposal. Equipped with the Sylph's Cloak and Sword, he has much, much greater agility/mobility, not to mention the ability to strike from a distance with attacks that are virtually invisible, which, I might add, can also be used to deflect projectiles (Including lightning bolts!). In other words, he'd be more than a match for Guts with magic at his side, but don't forget that Serpico is little more than a novice amongst true magic-users; how would Guts fare against an experienced and more capable mage or "spellsword"?

Furthermore, you cited the Berserk's Armour as an advantage, yet Guts is unable to use it properly without Schierke's support (This is an one-on-one battle, remember?). Friend and foe become indistinguishable from one another when berserk, and the side-effects are so damaging that it takes days, sometimes weeks to recover (if it hasn't caused you to snuff it already). Speaking of which, Guts is trying his utmost to limit the armour's use due to those highly detrimental side-effects. If he intends to wean himself from the Berserk's Armour, he could use an incentive to remain in - for lack of a better term - his human form.

One of benefits of the Berserk's Armour is that Guts regains control of his left hand... in a sense; hence, his sword control and striking power is much improved. If what I mentioned earlier in the thread came to pass, he would gain that greater sword mastery whilst being able to remain in his "human form" - in turn, allowing him to keep a (relatively) level head.

Like I said earlier, I don't expect (or want) Guts to begin casting spells and summoning elemental gods to do his bidding. I'd like for any upgrades or "power-ups" to be magic-free if at all possible, but he could use a subtle improvement either way, in my opinion.

[Hard_Rock]

The best power-up for Guts now is to have some rest and heal his wounds. As for other, I think that if he somehow regain at least a little control of his left hand in some way, it would be enough. He does not need his real hand, because he can't shoot arrows and cannon balls(!) from it. Still I don't know how can he beat Griffith (maybe with the help of berseker's armour, but still doubt it). But he's on pair with any other apostles.