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View Poll Results: Who wins

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  • Shunsui wins

    73 58.40%
  • Ulquirra wins

    30 24.00%
  • the fight is pointless because Shunsui beat Stark and is proven stronger

    22 17.60%
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Thread: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

  1. #151
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Look again, on that same page. Shunsui's standing in the shadow, the area in front of him, where he'd be stabbing mind, is between Starrk's legs, as in brightly lit. Ergo he doesn't have to do jack to the shadow, you just have to be touching yours via some means. That's the only rule established, and the scene shows as much.

  2. #152
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Are you guys forgetting about Irooni? Ulquiorra doesn't know about that color game. And regarding Kageoni, it's 'whoever steps on their shadow, loses. whoever loses- dies' that was the words that came from Shunsui. He stabbed the shadow and hid in the shadow, sure you can stab your shadow too but you better be confident you can hit Shunsui. Bushougoma can confuse you too, and don't forget about Takaoni, the cliff demon game. Whoever is higher up wins. He can close the gap immediately with his speed. Call any of his games and confuse Ulquiorra. Whatever Ulquiorra does Shunsui has an answer to. And on top of it all, he has a Bankai that we haven't even seen!

  3. #153
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Primecut's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Ulquiorra would just trash Shunsui before he has time to use his bankai. Let's face it, Shunsui stands around talking at first, when he realizes he cant win fairly only then does he start doing cheap shots. His cheap shots still ended up getting himself foddered unconscious against Aizen and Stark. Ulquiorra would just release then do his second release which is obviously a bankai in disguise then Shunsui is stuck defending himself against a black cero with his weak wind attacks. Ulquiorra's black cero tears right through Shunsui's defenses since he couldnt even handle a common cero from Stark's gun. How can he tank a dome-busting cero from Ulquiorra's "bankai"?

  4. #154
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Primecut View Post
    Ulquiorra would just trash Shunsui before he has time to use his bankai. Let's face it, Shunsui stands around talking at first, when he realizes he cant win fairly only then does he start doing cheap shots. His cheap shots still ended up getting himself foddered unconscious against Aizen and Stark. Ulquiorra would just release then do his second release which is obviously a bankai in disguise then Shunsui is stuck defending himself against a black cero with his weak wind attacks. Ulquiorra's black cero tears right through Shunsui's defenses since he couldnt even handle a common cero from Stark's gun. How can he tank a dome-busting cero from Ulquiorra's "bankai"?
    1. U can predict the future? U know what shunsui's bankai is? Wow, that's impressive

    2. In a battle, it is killed or be killed. His style is no style. He will attack at the slightest moment. That has been stated a few times in the manga. Everyone goes for cheap shots. Aizen used KS, ichigo attacked aizen from the back, urahara attacked aizen from the back, youruichi, etc, the list goes on.

    3. Starks was the most adept at ceros. He was the #1 espada and ceros were his main weapon. I doubt ulqui would stand a chance against him in a battle of ceros. If shunsui can dodge dozens of ceros from the automatic gun of starks, what makes u think he will be hit by a ONE CHARGED up cero from ulqui? Use some logic.

    4. Calling shunsui's attacks weak is ridiculous considering one move was enough to take down starks while love w/ shikai and mask didn't even scratch starks w/ a full hit.

    But based on your history, i know u don't care about anyone other than aizen and your claims really have no support so i'll just leave it at that

  5. #155
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    1. U can predict the future? U know what shunsui's bankai is? Wow, that's impressive

    2. In a battle, it is killed or be killed. His style is no style. He will attack at the slightest moment. That has been stated a few times in the manga. Everyone goes for cheap shots. Aizen used KS, ichigo attacked aizen from the back, urahara attacked aizen from the back, youruichi, etc, the list goes on.

    3. Starks was the most adept at ceros. He was the #1 espada and ceros were his main weapon. I doubt ulqui would stand a chance against him in a battle of ceros. If shunsui can dodge dozens of ceros from the automatic gun of starks, what makes u think he will be hit by a ONE CHARGED up cero from ulqui? Use some logic.

    4. Calling shunsui's attacks weak is ridiculous considering one move was enough to take down starks while love w/ shikai and mask didn't even scratch starks w/ a full hit.

    But based on your history, i know u don't care about anyone other than aizen and your claims really have no support so i'll just leave it at that
    i think shunsui is overhyped

    but i agree with you this time

    shunsui outclasses ulquiorra easily...even with R2 i dont think ulq is the strongest espada as people claim.

    he doesnt just support aizen he thinks SHINIGAMI tousen would be kensei in a fair fight to

  6. #156
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I'm not sure that Ulquiorra's cero would be of much use if he straight up shoots it at Kyouraku, as Kyouraku dodged some pretty rapid cero fire from Starrk, but I still have to question the speed of Cero Obscuras. From the manga I got the feeling that it was an instantaneous attack, as in that it doesn't travel any distance (or does so instantly), unlike other ceros which we saw the head part of (as in, they are going at a certain speed and are not instant). Starrk ceros required no charge time, but weren't instantaneous when they left his gun. I just thought I should bring up that difference.

    I still think Ulquiorra has a pretty good shot at beating Shunsui, but if Shunsui's bankai proves to be as hax and overpowered as I think it is, I may change my vote. Until then, my vote sticks with raw power and speed of Ulquiorra.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    It appears to have a travel time same as the rest, we see a brief interval of Ichigo before and after it hits and it sort of swarming to him before his mask shatters. Hard to judge if it's actually faster, given all ceros are pretty much 'instantaneous' when they fire, but it's clear that a travel time, small as it may be is at least involved.

    Not like it matters from where I'm standing, charge time is the killer. With that an opponent whose actually paying attention/isn't a moron knows what's coming and can prepare accordingly. Getting a hit with that alone isn't all that likely frankly.

  8. #158
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    If you're refering to the blackness effect enveloping Ichigo, I'm not sure I'd agree. But yeah I agree. The charging time makes it much less of a danger in this fight. Maybe it could be used in some specific conditions, like a follow up attack or something, but that's it. And I don't suppose you can move the finger towards different direction mid-charge either.
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  9. #159
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I've never seen anyone literally moving it before firing. I mean Starrk sure, but he was more firing in between moving for his spreads, and he can do that because that's his entire stick. You seem to be set in a specific direction once the charge starts, or in Starrk's case once it fires, though mostly due to lack of any relevant feats than anything else. Even the laughably huge charge time for Gran Rey didn't allow him to move (Though granted Ichigo stood there the entire time because he didn't think to rush him then, but eh... >>)

  10. #160
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Crystal Black's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I see shunsui defeating Ulquiorra. But I really can't judge this match, Shunsui only has had one match up. While the only person Ulquiorra fought was Ichigo. We can all expect Shunsui to be extremely good at kido, We've seen some Shunpo from him and he's probably the most skilled with a sword, HtH won't really matter in this situation. Base Shunsui is gr3eater then Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra doesn't have an advantage over Shunsui at all in base. It really comes down to SE Ulquiorra vs Shikai Shunsui.

  11. #161
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Primecut's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Ulquiorra would outregenerate Shunsui's attacks. That's if Shunsui can even land a hit, I bet he'd be put down by a single lanza. Shunsui has trouble tanking energy attacks as shown when Stark one shotted him with a casual cero. Ulquiorra had better ceros than Stark based on the destruction feats. Ranks dont matter when you got Segunda Etapa and way better feats.

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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Primecut View Post
    Ulquiorra would outregenerate Shunsui's attacks. That's if Shunsui can even land a hit, I bet he'd be put down by a single lanza. Shunsui has trouble tanking energy attacks as shown when Stark one shotted him with a casual cero. Ulquiorra had better ceros than Stark based on the destruction feats. Ranks dont matter when you got Segunda Etapa and way better feats.
    Stark's cero hit Shunsui when Shunsui was attacking WW, will WW come for help in this battle? What happened after Stark's point-blank cero hit Shunsui? In case you missed, Shunsui played possum. If Shunsui managed to escape from Stark's many ceroes with no charge time, how will Ulquiorra manage to hit Shunsui with his cero or lanza which he can't even control? This fight will boil down to swordplay and if Ulquiorra's swordsmanship, speed and reflexes are not better than Stark's (I doubt it), he is in deep trouble.

    Ichigo isn't aware of the concept of dodging and whenever someone shoots a cero at him, he stands still and tries to block it. This is why a cero is only effective against either him or people who are too slow to dodge. A cero won't work against a captain unless it is fired in huge numbers with no charge time.

  13. #163
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Primecut's Avatar
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    Stark's cero hit Shunsui when Shunsui was attacking WW, will WW come for help in this battle? What happened after Stark's point-blank cero hit Shunsui? In case you missed, Shunsui played possum. If Shunsui managed to escape from Stark's many ceroes with no charge time, how will Ulquiorra manage to hit Shunsui with his cero or lanza which he can't even control? This fight will boil down to swordplay and if Ulquiorra's swordsmanship, speed and reflexes are not better than Stark's (I doubt it), he is in deep trouble.

    Ichigo isn't aware of the concept of dodging and whenever someone shoots a cero at him, he stands still and tries to block it. This is why a cero is only effective against either him or people who are too slow to dodge. A cero won't work against a captain unless it is fired in huge numbers with no charge time.
    Shunsui was obviously KOed/hurt initially. Yama showed a lot of concern and Shunsui was raging over Ukitake getting one shotted by Wonderweis so if he wasnt hurt at all he woulda went after WW some more. Overall it shows poor durability for the Shunsui/Ukitake crew. Ulquiorra got half his body blown up and could still fight a little more against an opponent far stronger than Stark and Wonderweis, Ukitake gets a little hole in him and is KOed, and Shunsui gets hit with one cero and is out for the count. Do the math, Shunsui either lacks heart or is just not a decent tank. I think its both.

    Ichigo can dodge, hes done it a lot in the manga. Ichigo was dodging Byakuya's bankai non stop, running laps around those petals, and he also dodged Gran Rey Cero easily but had to run in front of it to save Orihime AFTER dodging it. That speaks volumes about his speed. He also dodged Gin's bankai that was far beyond mach speed. The only reason he couldnt dodge Ulquiorra is because it is a darkness enveloping attack, meaning the darkness comes in from all angles. Its kind of unavoidable and you need to counter it with your own cero or reiatsu. Thats why Ichigo tanked it and lost. Shunsui's Koma Busho isnt saving him from that either.
    Last edited by Primecut; November 07, 2010 at 06:01 AM.

  14. #164
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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Darkness enveloping attack? It's a goddamn cero. If you see the chargup coming it's child's play to move out of the goddamn way. The only sorts of cero's anyone's going to have any sort of seriously hard time with (When they are seeing them coming mind) are going to be the ones like Starrk's that fire instantly, and especially in quick succession.

    And don't get me started on the freaking speed thing. Gin's bankai isn't mach 500 at all, he outright stated this prior to retconning his bankai again, and the speed feats you are citing there (Save the Byakuya battle obviously) are hardly that good, and are shot completely to hell when we recall he couldn't block something Orihime was able to perceive and react to.

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    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Primecut View Post
    Shunsui was obviously KOed/hurt initially. Yama showed a lot of concern and Shunsui was raging over Ukitake getting one shotted by Wonderweis so if he wasnt hurt at all he woulda went after WW some more. Overall it shows poor durability for the Shunsui/Ukitake crew. Ulquiorra got half his body blown up and could still fight a little more against an opponent far stronger than Stark and Wonderweis, Ukitake gets a little hole in him and is KOed, and Shunsui gets hit with one cero and is out for the count. Do the math, Shunsui either lacks heart or is just not a decent tank. I think its both.
    Once again: Shunsui wasn't out for the count, he was playing possum. (Yamamoto was concerned because he thought the injury was more serious than it already was.) Of course the cero hurt him to some extent because it was a point-blank cero from primera but still he was able to fight back. You are talking as if people are shrugging off point-blank ceros even when they are caught off-guard. On the contrary, Shunsui tanked Stark's strongest hit in the color game, if he wasn't strong, that hit would be enough to defeat him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primecut View Post
    Ichigo can dodge, hes done it a lot in the manga. Ichigo was dodging Byakuya's bankai non stop, running laps around those petals, and he also dodged Gran Rey Cero easily but had to run in front of it to save Orihime AFTER dodging it. That speaks volumes about his speed. He also dodged Gin's bankai that was far beyond mach speed. The only reason he couldnt dodge Ulquiorra is because it is a darkness enveloping attack, meaning the darkness comes in from all angles. Its kind of unavoidable and you need to counter it with your own cero or reiatsu. Thats why Ichigo tanked it and lost. Shunsui's Koma Busho isnt saving him from that either.
    Nobody says Ichigo is slow, he sometimes doesn't bother to dodge the attacks and he tries to tank them instead. (But he isn't as fast as his former self in SS arc, that much is a fact. Unfortunately you insist on ignoring this fact and keep comparing Ichigos from different times and committing a big mistake.) It's not only the cero oscuras, for example he didn't run away from other ceros from Ulquiorra, look at this:

    http://mangable.com/bleach/chapter-344/16/

    If Shunsui uses Kageoni, Ulquiorra will get stabbed. Who can guess that his shadow will stab him? Shunsui can say "black" in a color game, remove his haori at the best possible moment and kill Ulquiorra just like he killed/defeated Stark . He can even catch Ulquiorra off-guard because even if Ulquiorra manages to cut him, it will be useless because of lack of black on him and Ulquiorra won't see it coming.

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