Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/22/14 - 9/28/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!

View Poll Results: Who wins

Voters
125. You may not vote on this poll
  • Shunsui wins

    73 58.40%
  • Ulquirra wins

    30 24.00%
  • the fight is pointless because Shunsui beat Stark and is proven stronger

    22 17.60%
New Reply
Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 247

Thread: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

  1. #166
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    ^You're assuming that Shunsui will kill him with one shot. If Ulquiorra tanks through one of those slashes, calling black on Shunsui without haori means he's going down. And we all know that it takes a lot more than a nasty stab or cut to stop him from retaliating.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  2. #167
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    When you do a critical blow in the color game by calling a color you more or less completely have, you are going down. Stark was slashed solely in his hollow hole (As he literally has no other black on him) and the blow practically shattered his torso. Something similar to Ulquiorra, who is mostly black himself will be devastating, particularly since he can't do jack for his organs.

    Granted however this requires him to actually get that critical blow in, which while possible with some element of surprise, especially if it's his first move when activating the color game (As opposed to what he did to Starrk by calling Gray), may take some doing.

    Further it may not kill him outright (He survived his lower half being blown off, though granted I'd like to see him try the same thing without his heart), but he's dying afterwords whether or not Shunsui follows through, like Ichinator was stopped from doing. Hard to say all in all though, hence why I rate this rather close for Shunsui's shikai.

  3. #168
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Well I reckon that Ulquiorra has better defense and can afford to lose a limb or two in order to protect his core, to better effect than Starrk can. In the colour game it would sure come in handy and could provide him with needed room for the room. And as you said, the chances are even if he gets a critical hit, he is likely to keep fighting for a while later, so I don't think Shunsui will be in the clear if he puts in the killing blow. And I don't think that Shunsui's colour game will cause anywhere near the damage equivalent to getting your body reduced to a bloody stump by a ferocious cero.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  4. #169
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    No, he might survive a little bit, and that's only if Shunsui does not follow through, which given his nature is up in the air. Ulquiorra was ended after a simple slash and he let Ichinator blast him to hell (granted the blast did nothing, but given he could have been stabbed in the head instead of blasted moot point). If he does the same thing with Shunsui, particularly the bit about asking him to end it, he's going to die then and there after said critical blow. Whether or not Shunsui would isn't particularly clear, but he's far more likely than most to actually finish him if he asks to say the least.

    Edit: Also it's going to do more damage because the cero pretty much just blasted away a part already cut off by his sword. Iro Oni literally shreds your insides given what happened to Starrk. Dude was pretty much cracking apart after that. For a dude whose main weakness is the fact that his regen can't do organs, taking a hit like that to any area with something more vital than Kidney's is bad news. Granted again, getting the hit in though is going to take some doing. That we don't know if stuff like Kage Oni and Iro Oni can be used in conjunction doesn't exactly help.

    Shunsui's best method to end it is Iro Oni. His best method to get a hit in semi reliably is Kage Oni thanks to Ulquiorra's massive shadow casting wings. I heavily doubt he can switch between the two with any sort of ease so a roflstomp is out of the question. Well, unless he pulls Bankai I suppose, depending on what it is.
    Last edited by Random101; November 07, 2010 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #170
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I think that Ulquiorra asking Shunsui to finish it is out of the question. Shunsui can't do anything as impressive to signify the pointlessness of their fight, as breaking the lanza with his hands, outmatching him in speed or mountain shaking swordslashes to the chest. It was simply pointless to fight on, as he couldn't do any damage, but as soon s the opportunity presented itself, he got back up.

    And the fight wasn't over after the initial slash, it was over once all of Ulqui's organ's were destroyed by the cero. I simply don't see Iro Oni doing that much damage. It can do a lot of damage sure, but it wont outright destroy half of his torso and organs in there.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  6. #171
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    They weren't destroyed, they were blown away. Keep in mind the 'damage' he received was in a perfectly straight line down his body in the exact same location as the slash. Given the cero was point blank to the head yet only damages the lower half at best (And EVERYTHING in the upper part is more or less in pristine condition), the only way to take that is that the part cut off by the sword slash got blow away. Compacted further by Ulquiorra outright saying he was beaten after the slash, and the fact that bare minimum it took a lung.

    And yeah, if Ulquiorra takes a blow like Iro Oni critical hit, continuing the fight kinda is pointless (He'd be dying anyway so... >>), so I easily see him pulling the same crap. Though granted the characterization in general in that fight was absolutely horrid to the point of ruining both parties involved.

  7. #172
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I uh completely disagree with you there, but I could just repeat myself there so I'll leave it at that.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  8. #173
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Fair enough. The character thing is iffy anyway (As if I was particularly fond of Ulquiorra I'd probably ignore all that stupidity too as the bad writing it is), though I still hold the cero thing as fact. Because it's the only plausible explanation I could come up with for why a point blank cero to the head could possibly leave behind a perfectly straight cut and more importantly leave the head and upper body virtually undamaged. And it meshes with Ulquiorra outright saying he was defeated prior to it being fired as well as how Orihime could survive a cero implosion from several feet away without her barrier up.

    Granted I could also throw up horrid writing at that too, but it's a hell of a lot more consistent than Kubo usually is with his bad writing. >>

  9. #174
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Well the connection between the cut and the cero blast could be there I suppose, although the body is more torn violently than in straight line and not so much along the cut, but that could be just the drawing inconsistency. It's possible though that the fact that Ichigonator had his foot on Ulqui's head had something to do with head being undamaged, or that head and torso were simply better protected than stomach which has no bones. Either way it changes little because I don't agree with the statement that Ulqui would give up the fight after Iro Oni slash or that the slash would kill him as it did Starrk.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  10. #175
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Torn violently never leaves neigh perfectly straight damage. Torn violently by very nature leaves behind extremely rough damage that while it may be in a general straight bent, would still have many rough edges that would definitely keep it from being anywhere near as straight as that. Further while the foot is a decent explanation for why the head wasn't blown off, the head wasn't the only issue. His entire upper body on the other side of the slash no less was perfectly undamaged. That suggests a lot in itself. Why is it that the part closest to where the cero originated is the part that was left perfectly untouched?

    Similarly Ulquiorra's dying with a critical hit from Iro Oni no question. He can't regen organs at all, and literally shredding them as Iro Oni does is going to kill him. Granted he might last a few moments afterwords, because LOL shonen, but he's going to be dying from that blow. And frankly I'd question him lasting as long as he did if the blow gets something more critical like his heart.

  11. #176
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    This is far from perfectly straight, and is significantly under the line where the cut was made.

    Ulquiorra seems tougher than Starrk to me in general, and the fact that it's harder to get to his body, since he can protect it with limbs, tail or wings, all of which he can sacrifice to defend himself, means to me that he is much more likely to survive than Starrk is. And even if some of the organs get damaged, that doesn't mean automatic death. Ulquiorra is the same as everyone else, and people in bleach live on with holes in their chests, with no lower body parts, huge slashes through their abdomen etcetera. And these are most if not all, people who are less durable than Ulquiorra, who can't even heal the surfice wounds and non-organ tissue.
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  12. #177
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    It's virtually entirely straight. Granted there's one tiny bit on his right side that curves a little in one panel (one before it seems to follow the straightness though so it might have something to do with the way his body is positioned, though it's enough to call it regardless), but I can shift his body a bit and draw a line that more or less matches the damage entirely. That is in no way shape or form what would happen if you violently tore something off. It's also not what would happen if an energy blast aimed point blank at the head was fired on it, particularly when leaving the rest of the body undamaged.

    And while he indeed won't automatically die from organ damage, damage his organs significantly and he's still going to be dying, possibly near instantly if the heart gets nailed, though whether or not that would work is entirely up for grabs (The head is literally the only surefire way, and hence is the way that is never used).

    Also you are indeed correct that he can sacrifice those things to easily block his core body. There's two problems however: Iro Oni and Kage oni. Iro Oni apparently will only damage the color based on how much of it you have on, you could cut entirely through an arm and it would appear to be only a scratch, etc. Meaning blocking is meaningless from what's shown, he could cut straight through his arm and the length of the blade would still connect with his core body, and depending on the color called only his core body would be damaged and moving the arm there was worthless.

    Granted though his wings are large enough and long enough to at least push him back to a distance in which his sword length can't reach him. The problem with those though is that they're so massive. And cast huge shadows. And are a prime surface for a shadow to BE cast on.

    Either way though, I'm not saying it's going to be easy. Even if blocking with his limbs are worthless if Kyoraku get's too close, avoiding isn't outside the realm of possibility, CQC is going to be rough, and both have a means to effectively end it if they get a good shot in. Problem with Ulquiorra's is that it couldn't hit a goddamn stationary target and could blow up hard in his face, and problem with Kyoraku's is that he has to get really close (And if Ulquiorra catches on it could reverse on him), and Ulquiorra's not lacking in reaction and speed. Rough going both ways.

  13. #178
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vizardichigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Trinidad
    Country
    Trinidad and Tobago
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    I think Starrk is quicker than Ulq easily...I mean its pretty safe to assume that Starrk is the fastest espada...He moves so quickly neither Ichigo nor Kenpachi could react. Even when Ichigo was fighting Ulq in his un released form, he was holding his own. So if Starrk is quicker than Ulq, and Shunsui was atleast the same speed as Starrk, then he is quicker than Ulq...That Lamza del Relampago wont hit him. As Ichigonator just shifted his head to dodge it, hardly an impressive feat of speed. And i think in swordsmanship he has Ulq beat. Starrk was a great anlyst and complimented Shunui's swordsmanship. Also his shikai is very powerful and versatile. I really cant see Ulq winning in any scenario...
    Thank You Kubo...You have proven once and for all, that Yamamoto Genryuusai is STRONGER THAN AIZEN SOUSUKE despite what the fanboys think

  14. #179
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xsoteria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Country
    Serbia
    Age
    25
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    It's virtually entirely straight. Granted there's one tiny bit on his right side that curves a little in one panel (one before it seems to follow the straightness though so it might have something to do with the way his body is positioned, though it's enough to call it regardless), but I can shift his body a bit and draw a line that more or less matches the damage entirely. That is in no way shape or form what would happen if you violently tore something off. It's also not what would happen if an energy blast aimed point blank at the head was fired on it, particularly when leaving the rest of the body undamaged.

    And while he indeed won't automatically die from organ damage, damage his organs significantly and he's still going to be dying, possibly near instantly if the heart gets nailed, though whether or not that would work is entirely up for grabs (The head is literally the only surefire way, and hence is the way that is never used).

    Also you are indeed correct that he can sacrifice those things to easily block his core body. There's two problems however: Iro Oni and Kage oni. Iro Oni apparently will only damage the color based on how much of it you have on, you could cut entirely through an arm and it would appear to be only a scratch, etc. Meaning blocking is meaningless from what's shown, he could cut straight through his arm and the length of the blade would still connect with his core body, and depending on the color called only his core body would be damaged and moving the arm there was worthless.

    Granted though his wings are large enough and long enough to at least push him back to a distance in which his sword length can't reach him. The problem with those though is that they're so massive. And cast huge shadows. And are a prime surface for a shadow to BE cast on.

    Either way though, I'm not saying it's going to be easy. Even if blocking with his limbs are worthless if Kyoraku get's too close, avoiding isn't outside the realm of possibility, CQC is going to be rough, and both have a means to effectively end it if they get a good shot in. Problem with Ulquiorra's is that it couldn't hit a goddamn stationary target and could blow up hard in his face, and problem with Kyoraku's is that he has to get really close (And if Ulquiorra catches on it could reverse on him), and Ulquiorra's not lacking in reaction and speed. Rough going both ways.
    It really isn't as clear that the damage is along a straight line, considering that the line isn't consistent with the cut. It's not perfectly straight, you can see that there has been effort in the drawing to make the left, longer line look a bit shaky. If I recall from your other forum posts, you have knowledge on at least basics of drawing in general, so you would know that if the effort was to illustrate a straight cut, the line drawn would be a sharp fast movement, leaving behind a clear edge and a perfectly straight line. Here, it isn't, you can see, as I said the shaky manner in which the line is drawn. On top of which there is a much more clear tear on the right side. The aim of the cero is also not exactly clear, we see it being charged somewhere above Ulquiorra's top half, yet Ichigonator's foot is blocking the way of the direct blast to Ulquiorra's head and part of his torso.

    Not to mention that if the cero struck his head and destroyed it, there would be no basis for the aftermath of that battle where Ulquiorra make a comeback.

    Also, I am compeletely unconvinced that Shunsui can deal the damage equivalent to the sword slash and that cero blast in one hit, stopping Ulquiorra from doing at least as much as he did later on with ichigonator when he regenerated his body.

    As for Lanza (lol again), apparently we have very different understanding of that attack, but in this case I would like to point out that I don't think Ulquiorra would be equally harmed with the Lanza blast as his target would be. First of all, it's his attack, I'm not sure how would people react to their own energy attacks but from say, Ichigonator's case where he literally stood in his own blast, shooting at his own foot, and was unscratched I guess that Ulquiorra's uncomfortability with his own blast was the powerful kinetic energy or the wind of the explosion rather than the explosion itself, since as you see, even far far away from the blast area, the shockwave is still rather powerful. Also, Ulquiorra has shown significant resistance to energy attacks in general as shown when Ichigo's masked GT literally did not touch him. Whether it was his reiatsu making the energy shield around him or something in his passive abilities, I don't know, but I would say that there would need to be an immense energy attack to even reach him.

    Oh and one last thing, I'm not sure I remember how Kage Oni works when it meets the colour not called out. The damage seemed to be minimal, so I'm not sure how exactly it would cleave through other colours.


    Oh and can Shunsui combine his games the way you're suggesting? I think he only used one game at a time. I could be wrong though, I don't remember.
    Last edited by Xsoteria; November 09, 2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both.
    Better be nice to them

  15. #180
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Xerneas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hoenn Region
    Country
    Japan
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,404
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Shunsui Kyouraku vs Ulquiorra Cifer

    Its baffling to me how, even now, people think an Espada can beat a Captain, especially a senior one. I don't even have to waste time with one of my usual walls-of-text, cause its just not happening in any scenario. I think the next batch of villains will make the Espada even bigger jokes than they already are. Not just power-wise but because Ichigo can fight now. When he gets his powers back watch out.

New Reply
Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts