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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
I'm, starting with Aaroniero. Why Aaroniero, you may be asking. Simple.
Chad beat Gantenbainne(easily outclassing him) once he got his 3rd form of his arm and 1st form of his offensive arm
Now it's up to speculation rather Chad could've still wiped the floor with Gantenbainne without his left arm. I'm assuming that he powered up two times because of that. One from activating his 3rd form of his right arm, and another power up from activating his left arm, making him 2 classes above what he was before if that's how it works.
Either way, he was owning Gantenbainne even before he activated his left arm, and one-shotted him with La Muerte after activating his left arm.
TheN we have Chad using La Muerte on Nnnoitora, only to be blocked by Tesra, a fraccion. Now technically a fraccion is not ranked by strength so a espada could have a fraccion stronger than another weaker espada, but that's besides the point.
Tesra blocking La Muerte. Either the privaron espada are extremely weak, or Tesra is one of the stronger fraccions. The same Tesra who got one-shotted by Kenpachi with his eye-patch on. The same Kenpachi(albeit with eye-patch) who had to work to even cut Nnoitora. Power levels are tricky in Bleach.What does this say about Chad with his 3rd form right arm and 1st form? Do I have to make a proper Tesra vs Chad thread?
Anyway, I chose Aaroniero(9) because theres still the argument over whether full power Chad could beat Unreleased Yammy(10). People point to Hitsu's shikai and saying it didn't even phase Yammy, and that there's no way Chad could stand against a captain's shikai as evidence that Yammy would effectively own him.
However, I wonder if Chad would do anything against Aaroniero. Rukia barely beat him, and even then, that battle was extremely circumstantial, and environmentally effected. And I doubt people will say since Rukia beat Aaroniero(9) that she can conclusively beat unreleased Yammy(10) if Hitsu's shikai couldn't do much(albeit it's not like Hitsu went full out with his shikai. Look what he did to Luppi(6) with it. so that's not a good measurement of strength either).
That's why for this battle, I choose it to be on a long flat plateau. Preferably on the desert of Hueco Mundo. Suitable enough darkness of Aaroniero. I also chose Aaroniero because we've seen most of his base abilities(although he apparently has thousands more because of his special ability), and we've seen Chad's abilties as well. Plus he one-shotted Gantenbainne(arguably the weakest privaron).
For this battle, all abilities are open. Though preferably characters using only the abilities they have shown in the manga. That means no making up some convenient ability for Aaroniero. However, abilities he never showed, but we know he has, like Gran Rey Cero, bala, and apparently Cero Oscuras(according to Ulq, all espada can use it) for example, are fine to use.
You can also do a Chad vs Tesra scenario as well
Last edited by Revolation; April 30, 2013 at 08:42 PM.
I assume we are talking about Chad with his pre-time skip strength. Chad was extremely injured when Tesra blocked his attack, I don't see it as a sign of Chad's weakness. Even though Chad defeated Gantenbainne, IMHO espada were still a class above that and Aaroniero would be too much for Chad to handle. Yammy defeated Chad easily and even if Chad got stronger, it's doubtful that he reached the level of an unreleased espada and Aaroniero still has his resurreccion in a worst case scenario. I think Aaroniero wins.
if we pull out the kyoryaku clause, the chad should be stronger if he's exhausted since he's using his life force. though i guess we should leave that back in the kyoryaku battle.
oh also, while we're on the topic rukia>chad? if we go by the a>b, b>c so a>c?
but then again like i said, the Aaaroniero fight was pretty circumstancial. So straightforward math expressions like that won't really work. hmm.
You say yammy beat chad easily. are you referring to when chad still had his first form right arm? alright, what if at that point in time chad had the 3rd form of his right arm and his left arm? would he be any challenge at all?
We have no idea how strong Chad is at the moment, what we say would be speculation at best. Renji seems to be a lot stronger, so I don't rule out the possibility that Chad has reached the power level of a low-level espada.
IIRC Chad's arm was glowing with spiritual energy when he attacked Shunsui as a last-ditch effort with everything he had, I don't think his attack against Tesra had the same amount of energy. IMHO Chad, in good shape, can defeat Tesra without much effort.
Rukia's win against Aaroniero is indeed circumstantial, Rukia didn't win because she clearly overpowered Aaroniero, she won because she caught Aaroniero off guard. a>b>c logic doesn't apply to this case, and in a fight between Chad and Rukia, IMHO Chad has better chances but this is of course debatable.
If Chad had his last form against Yammy, he might have put up a fight but IMHO Yammy would still have won. I don't think Chad had enough power to defeat an espada at the time.
I doubt Chad is strong enough to fight to a tie with Yami in his 10 Espada form even after timeskip, so I obviously doubt that he can win against 9th Espada, especially since Aaroniero has his Ressureccion. We should not forget that Rukia managed to win not due to her strength, but due to a plot induced stupidity of Aaroniero. If he wasn't toying with half-dead Rukia and didn't bring her close to his head, then she would have died peacefully, so I really doubt Chad can win the match.
I think arroniero would defeat chad just about as easily as nnoitora did. Rukia got lucky but I doubt chad would get that sort of priviledge in this fight. Chad is strong but nowhere near captain level as far as we know, he was not even able to vaguely stop kirge... Any espada would outright outclass him.
Well, I would say that Kirge was clearly above Yami in his 10th Espada form and the likes of Aaroniero or Zomari. Especially, when he used his Vollstandig. So Chad's performance against Kirge isn't a bad fit for Chad. It was quite logical.
Still, Chad is really weak and can't obviously win against even low level Espada exept for plot reasons.
We should Remember Kubo introduced a number system for Fraccion when they first appeared all being Grimmjow and Shawllong who gave Hitsugaya his worst whipping and horrible show of Bleach ever was #11. Kubo obviously threw this aside only mentioning former Espada's with 3digit numbers which I remember Chad's opponent being a former espada, but he could have been the old #7-10 who don't know...Anyways Fraccion are like VC to the Espada they all are on different lv's from each other and we've seen some are able to compete with Captains to a certain lv. Teresa vs Chad hmmm Chad was beat up and cut down after Teresa showed this low lV feat. I believe Chad would take this fight with maybe a High-Mid difficulty. Teresa only dealth with Noi's scraps Ichigo was out of Reiatsu and broken so he couldn't fight back. Chad go this in the bag...
Ooo also SHunsui only dodged Chad's attack back then because he would have suffered some type of injury it wasn't dangerous for him but how would he look with his Captain gown torn up or injurered from such a weak opponent it would have been shameful. Only reason why he dodged and blocking obviously he couldn't block without some type of injury or dirtying himself.
Kirge would absorb every essence that makes up Arroniero, killing him just as easy as he did Allon(even though Allon was sort of a weakling compared to captain class fighters).
So bottom line is, Chad's performance against Kirge should never determine how he would perform against Arroniero.
Many of us bleach readers probably should understand that the espada rank is based on reiatsu but I think we should equality understand that, the ranking doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their durability (aka hierro).
IIRC, Nnoitra claims he has the toughest hierro out of all the espada. Even though this was his claim, it isn't far fetched (considering how easy it was to cut the number 1 espada Stark in his releashed form). Kenpachi wasn't able to make a scatch to his skin until he "adjusted" himself to the level where he was able to cut it (I guess that's Kenpachi's power afterall).
I'm not saying reiatsu isn't important (I'm the last person who who would say that lol) but I'm saying the mastery of ability is also very important.
Even though Nnoitra (probably) has the toughest hierro, he still won't be able to tank Hollow Ichigo's fully powered GT like Ulquiorra did not because Ulquiorra has a better hierro but because Ulquiorra is simply more powerful, his reiatsu is more potent & his control is far better than Nnoitra.
Ulquiorra mastered his ability greater than Nnoitra mastered his so even though Nnoitra has the tougher heirro, he still isn't half the tank Ulquiorra is(excluding his high speed regeneration).
I would argue that the durability of characters in bleach actually has to do with race or perhaps what class they were in (similary to how certain characters have more reiatsu than others).
Aaroniero is GILLIAN (therefore belonging to one of the weakest in ability such as durability). He one of the weakest espada in rank & he has shitty durability due to being a Gillian class race (though he still has reiatsu to reinforce his durability). He has by far the worse durability out all the espadas(he failed to evolve).
Not only that but (IIRC) he cannot function properly in sun light.
Buttom line is, Aaroniero has very dangerous abilities (which is why he was recruited by Aizen in the first place) BUT he is a huge mess in general.
That being said, I believe chad could maybe pull of the win. He is fast(Bringer Light Style), he has a good defence(shield) & more importantly packs a good punch. His inability to hurt Nnoitra (5th espada) who supposedly has the toughest hierro (when he has already used his power against a FORMER ESPADA) about one year ago (obviously Chad got stronger) shouldn't decide how he would perform against Aaroniero(The weakest espada) now.
If Chad can get I clean shot at Aaroniero face, I believe Aaroniero is doomed.
I vote Chad.
What Kenpachi meant by adjusting was that he had get use to attacking Nnoitra, this man knows nothing about controlling spirit pressure. Other captains would be able to immediately injury Nnoitra, I can assure you... All he really meant was how much you would concentrate into attacking him so that he could actually injure him. Nnoitra was trash and would lose to any captain.
Kirge was surely strong enough to show off quincy potential abilities but even then I didn't find him to be that impressive given how he actually fared against ichigo. Surely arroniero wouldn't have done so good against current ichigo either which is why I found the comparison to be relevant.
Lets take a look at how the fight actually went. We saw kirge easily beat up tres bestias to begin with. So what? Any captain level fighter would do that so it is not something which arroniero would have trouble with. Then we see kirge vs shikai ichigo. Was kirge impressive at all? Ichigo dodged easily everything kirge could through and even grabbed the holy arrows with his bare hands. Then kirge went volstandig and became a bit of a threat to ichigo however ichigo responded with bankai. Ichigo was able to easily stop slkavery and from then on the fight was completely one sided even though kirge had the power bonus given by allon. Kirge said it himself, ichigo kept consistently easily surpassing him. Kirge was so screwed in that fight that he could not even afford to change to blutz arterie to attack, ichigo's speed alone was not something he could even react to at all. Kirge survived because blutz vene is a hax defense which works against things inproportionally stronger than the user. It has even proven to be objectively stronger than hierro so far (even zomari could not block byakuya's blade) and we have seen blutz vene work against byakuya's blade, ryujin jakka, and kenpachi.
And then, we saw chad was not even able to land a hit on a beat up, non volstandig kirge who had recently had a hole pierced through him by urahara. So I would indeed argue this is relevant to how chad would fare against a espada and receive the fodder treatment. Whether kirge is or not stronger than arroniero is not even the point here.The only way in which chad would at the moment win against arroniero so far is that arroniero acts every bit as stupid as he did against rukia.
Well, no matter how you look at it, Kirge seemed to be one of the strongest Quincies so far.
And obviously his showdown against Ichigo was great, considering that current Ichigo seems to be stronger than any current Captain. Heck, he would take down most of them at the same time! The likes of Soi Fong, Komamura, Hitsugaya and Mayuri aren't a threat to him in any way. So fighting that long against this Ichigo... it actually makes him very strong.
By the time ichigo used bankai kirge never showed to be an opponent for ichigo though. In fact, at no point he was shown to be all that much. His only actual accomplishments were against tres bestias and absorbing allon. Still, in his base form he didn't hold a candle to shikai ichigo and against bankai ichigo he was a resilient punching bag. I don't think kirge would be a significant threat for any one captain with what he showed so far. Yes, ichigo is a beast but being a punching bag does not put kirge in all that high a position. I don't think kirge is ultimately strong enough to deal with any bankai at all. Against captains he would be forced to the same position he had against ichigo, a punching bag. While other captains won't have ichigo's speed they will definitely have their own areas where they excel. kirge does not even have offensive abilities outside generic quincy ones, jail is has no offensive applications. Basically kirge's generic quincy abilities have to be matched up against bankai and as far as we saw those did not even hold their ground to ichigo's shikai. How would kirge deal with the actual scale of bankai? We saw the beating he took from allon... why would komamura fail to deliver that times ten? How would kirge deal with hitsugaya throwing chunks of heaven at him? Harribel was physically more powerful than hitsugaya and had control over water and even then she could not free herself from the ice. I guess slkaverie would be kirges best bet in that scenario but that is assuming he does not actually take any damage. Kirge was strong only to the point where he would be able to show off quincy abilities however nothing he showed suggests he would actually defeat a captain. Against the other captains kirge would end being just as much of a punching bag, except for reasons different than to the ones he was one against ichigo.
---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 PM ----------
To be completely fair we don't know to what extent ichigo would currently surpass other characters in speed. We have never seen anything since the byakuya bit and ever since then ichigo's speed has been all over the place. My point is that while it was speed that ultimately defeated kirge, other captains would have their own traits to pull off something similar. Speed is ultimately ichigo's special bankai ability. Other captains will simply have other abilities which work on a grand scale. How can we talk about the captain's lack of experience or ability though? Wouldn't any of them have more of either than the 17 year old who has been fighting for at most 8 months of his short life? Ichigo is superior to the captains in reiatsu however experience, technique (ichigo has formal hand to hand combat training but no kendo and only whatever shunpo yoruichi got into him while he was leaning bankai) and actual skills(say, kido) are things in which he is inferior to them (except kenpachi).