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Translations: Gintama 510 (2)
Aizen would defeat them, how could he possible be wrong....
The Espadas would beat their maker!
Ok, recently we finally got a glimpse of the end of the 10 espadas and what would be the end of this arc. Each of the espada has fallen to an enemy and met his end(granted that a few of them have not received confirmation of being dead). Right after aizen finally killed the last one of the top 3 espada(excluding yammi) he made a very interesting comment:
I noticed the maximun 7 had a different translation from this but given that most of the other translations agreed on that aizen said he was stronger than the 10 espadas I went with that one.Quote:
Now, could there be a shred of truth to what aizen said? Could he really be placed against the 10 espada and end up victorious?
To top it all, right after giving such an statement, aizen proceeded to start a fight against the remaining captains and vizards of the battlefield and seemed fairly confident in that he could win.
Now, arguments in favor that aizen could actually pull this off:
1.- The reiatsu incident with grimmjow. For such a thing to be possible aizen's reiatsu would have to be on a class on it's own and above the captain level.
2.- He finished of harribel making only the smallest plausible effort. He had such an easy time it was not even funny. Harribel could not even fight back...
Such a thing would further suggest his power is on a class of its own.
1.- It's absurd that a single guy can take 10 guys with captain level power(even if most of them seemed weaker than most captains).
2.- Can't really think of anything else. Anything from here would be opinion and speculation.
Now, the only limitation I will place on the thread will be Ulquiorra's segunda etapa. Even though the second stage of ulquiorra's resurreccion is a wildcard and provided him with a boost in power which IMHO is unmeasurably high(some people would disagree with this though), aizen had never seen it so the logical assumption here would be that he did not know about it(there are some people who assume aizen knows about stuff he has never seen though). In any case, for the sake of simplicity, segunda etapa will not be included.
So we have:
aizen vs Yammi, starrk(with lilinete), barragan, harribel, ulquiorra, nnoitora, grimmjow, zomari, grantz and arroniero
-The fight takes place in HM outside of las noches.
-The espada are not under the influence of kyoka suigetsu when the fight starts.
-The espada start the fight in their sealed forms. They can release when they please though.
-They can do anything that has been shown so far(except for ulquiorra who can't use his second release)
So what do you all think? I myself have a little trouble deciding at the moment. Aizen's comment is just that big of a deal lol.
edit: added a poll but forget to put a tie option. Could a mod fix that? Thanks.
Last edited by kkck; November 03, 2009 at 02:00 AM.
50/50 odds. Really this all comes down to whether or not Barragon can get out a mass Respiera before Aizen can react while distracted by, really, any of the others. That the guy's retarded counts considerably against him, but the speed of the technique and the massive area it covers certainly works in his favor. Along with the fact that it freaking spreads quickly if even a small portion of the body is hit...
It's possible aizen is fast enough to outrun respira though. Even though he used his illusion to give the finishing blow to harribel, it seems pretty clear the first blow did not involve one and harribel could not even defend from it. Not sure how aizen would hurt barragan though. Bakudo would certainly be useless but a well placed hado would potentially do the trick.
Soifon couldn't, and she's operating on similar levels of speed to the 'Goddess of Flash'. You don't get a name like that if you aren't at the very least throwing distance from the absolute freaking top, not with people like Yamamoto around to teach the youngins how it's done. Hell, Soifon getting hit was the sure sign that NO ONE could avoid that when trying to outrun it. Avoid it from some other means, sure maybe, but outrun is right out given what we know currently. Hence why he has to at the very least distracted for it to work.
I for one don't think respira moves/could move that fast. Shunpo is nigh instantaneous, the respira thing seems to spread like a gas.
Not that Soifon alone would've still stood a chance, ofc.
Implication was that yes, she did, despite the fact that it appeared like she was just moving (Assumably because it's damn hard to show something like that without losing the whole 'instantaneous movement' effect). Otherwise Omaeda has literally no reason to exposit that the technique could catch any one of them, as the only reason she got caught would have been because she was freaking retarded despite seeing what that aura did to the environment an instant before, and dodging the blasted thing would be all too freaking easy.
Aizen may be right, why would Kubo make Aizen lie about characters that fulfilled their roles in the story?
Shunsui defeated primera with his shikai, a bankai can possibly make you 10 times stronger (maybe more if you are strong and experienced), so if Aizen is at least on par with Shunsui, he should be able to hold his own against all of them.
Of course the type of the bankai is also important. If a bankai has the ability to do area damage/to attack (affect) multiple opponents simultaneously, it better suits a 1 vs 10 battle. But if it's like Soifon's bankai, you had better resign.
Aizen could easily take them all on, no doubt about it. He even said himself that he alone is stronger than the lot of them.
First of all, the espada are weaker than captains, and Aizen can pwn a captain level shinigami in 2 seconds. Look at what happened to Halibel, two cuts in her released form and she was finished...and this was one of the top 3 espada, which means the ones below her in rank would easily suffer a similar fate.
Quite frankly, Aizen could probably skip the incantation on some very high level (80+) hadou and kill 3-4 of them in one attack. If there's one thing I've learned about BLEACH (thanks to characters like Aizen, Byakuya, and Hachi) is that kidou = win. Not having kidou = fail (Ichigo/Renji).
That being said, I'm sure Yamamoto could take all of them at once (with his shikai), and probably have an even easier time then Aizen. I think Yamamoto could turn most of the weaker espada into ashes instantly (the way he did Allon).
I think the top 5 alone would be impossible for Aizen, not counting Ulq's Segunda even. Ulq was just really strong, Halibel got paired up with Hitsugaya so she got the short end of the stick, but still Aizen slashing her the first time was kind of a cheap shot.....it's obvious from the expression on her face that she never expected Aizen to turn on her. And the second slash was the result of her slashing an illusion.
Aside from that, Barragans powers are incredibly hax, and Stark can fire 1000 ceros and summon those invincible wolf thingies...plus Stark's one of the few Espada that isn't arrogant and actually analyzes his opponents, and pretty well at that. Yammi seems to be quite strong too...
It's safe to say that the top 5 are at least somewhat near high captain level(not counting Yamamoto). Barragan's a no brainer, and Stark's fight seemed to have played out so that he could've used his most powerful attack to own Rose and Love but not Shunsui, not to mention when Shunsui came back his guns were gone too, and those guns were trouble for Shunsui before. The only one you can argue is Halibel, but she at least was able to hold her own against Hitsu with his shikai and Lisa and Hiyori with both their masks and shikai.
Last edited by exacta; November 03, 2009 at 11:25 AM.
Aizen pulls out his Zanpakto, nnoitora, grimmjow, zomari, Yammi and arroniero all die.
Turns out he had already pulled out his sword and illusioned them before they get to release.
Now all that is left is Stark, Uli, Barragan, Hallibel. They release and are aware of Aizen's power.
Uli and Hallibel go out to attack, but Barragan holds back or he kills his friends. Stark fires ceros from a far.
They all get tricked, Aizen is actually behind them and kills Stark with a stab in the face. He then flies in and kills Uli and Hallibel in an awesome but very short sword battle.
Now it is just Barragan and Aizen. Barragan fires a respira at what he thinks is Aizen, but Aizen is actually standing right next to him chanting the full incantation of Kido spell 96 Super Death Destructo Hyper Beam!
Hits at point blank range and Barragan gets chopped in half.
Aizen then flips his hair and pours himself a bloody mary. Exercise over, time for breakfast!
I think the espadas are vastly uderestimated.
Starks can fire 1000 ceros and wolves nuke that can reform
barragan can slow down time and so projectiles and close combats are negated. Not to mention his fire burns and age you
Zommari can trap aizen's legs or arms
Given prep time, the 8th espada would be a pain in the ass to beat
I think aizen is strong but his main edge is his shikai. He is clearly outnumbered and each espada has a skill that would be quite dangerous.
I think they are considerably underestimated....the top 5 to me seem to be stronger than all captains below the top 4 gotei 13 captains and maybe byakuya. With the preparations, Mayuri could probably beat any of them, but without any preparations, against them, he'd be screwed.
Aizen did take down Komamura rather easily though.....but if Aizen really can off all 10 Espadas at once, the same would be true for most of the gotei 13 captains then IMO. Save Yama, Unohana and Shunsui. Ukitake is sick, and his zanpakuto won't be as unique as Shunsui's IMO. Not sure about Byakuya though....
Oh, and Aizen's statement about being stronger than all of the Espada is probably no more of a reliable assumption than his whole " We won't need to lift a finger" statement. Also, he meant each one individually, not all of them together. There's no way Aizen would lol. Unless his Bankai really is that godly....and maybe if he does have some kind of hollow powers.
Last edited by exacta; November 03, 2009 at 02:14 PM.
I don't think Aizen can defeat all espada with only his shikai, this is nigh impossible. He needs his bankai and his bankai must have a massive ability. The thing is when we consider the incredible abilities of the zanpakutos of strong captains in even their shikai forms, it's possible that their bankais may be too strong to handle for relatively weaker opponents. Of course I assume that the bankais of strong characters will not disappoint us, because frankly Soifon's bankai didn't meet my expectations.
I think you all underestimate Aizen.
He killed Hallibel with basically 2 simple sword swings. No one below her is going to survive more than 2 swings of a sword, (even Uli who can not regenerate internal organs). No special move, no fire technique, no "colour game", no huge powered kendo swing, just two slashes.
Aizen will Illusion himself to be standing in one spot. You can not beat his illusion. He will then kill off the espada one by one. As it will only take a swing to chop them in half, this will not last long. No one will notice because they are all illusioned. It will be like when Aizen met barragan for the first time.
Gone is the espada's numerical (And might I add, only) advantage.
Whoever else remains will never be able to hit him because his Illusion is unbeatable. There is no limit to the range that we know of either. Remember when he was maintaining an illusion of himself being in his division, while he was actually fighting the soon to be vizard and Uruhara?
He can swing his sword and maintain an Illusion. All of the espada will be illusioned at all time. He is unbeatable.
Last edited by poobert; November 03, 2009 at 02:33 PM.