The Official Naruto Thread

[Exodi]

Or he could also use his rasengan which nowadays has 1001 mostly unnecessary variations and uses.

Including the ever-famous Dough-Kneading-Noodle-Making Rasengan.
I'd say that's Naruto's greatest achievement.

[hyper_megaman]

seriously that is so true

i was very disappointed with the itachi nagato thing. was expecting naruto to take charge

dragonball is about a guy with skill and technique to overcome brute force weaknesses

one piece is about a guy with willpower and hard work overcoming established powers physically superior to him

naruto is about a guy with too much power, wasting it all doing random crap and being worthless in situations where brute force doesn't help

[Anduren]

Actually....Naruto isn't a strategic genius. He's a tactical genius. Strategy is long term combat planning, studying the situation and surroundings ahead of time and comming up with a plan of action. Being a strategic genius requires the ability to predict possible outcomes the way Shikamaru always plans for multiple possible scenarios and how Yamato was explaining how they do in the ANBU (when they were going to the bridge to catch Sasori's spy).

Naruto on the other hand thinks on his feet and comes up with countermeasures as the battle progresses based on his immediate experiences regardless of past experience. So it's easy to call him a "moron," but in reality there are many forms of intelligence that come in handy in different situations. He may not have the IQ of Shikamaru or Sasuke or Neji to be able to analyze a battle situation before the battle starts. But the fluidity of his tactical skills show that he's able to quickly and easily (for the most part) "outsmart" his opponents by catching them off-guard after figuring out ways around their defenses almost by instinct.

This is also why the shadow clone technique is best suited for him and after his wind element training he was a "different person." Using shadow clones, he's able to use trial and error in mid battle to figure out his opponent, gain the experience from those skirmishes, and create a tactical advantage for himself that fits each opponent.

I also want to point out that strategic intelligence can only take you so far. It's best for ambushes and long term planning (like for the ninja war) but once you get into the nitty-gritty of battle, if you run into an opponent your strategy didn't consider, survival depends solely on tactical planning and being able to take things as they come.

[Josear XIII]

I wouldn't call naruto a strategic genius either but he is not quite the moron you make him out to be either. He is certainly nowhere near a smart fighter as itachi, sasuke or kakashi but throughout the manga he has shown to be capable of quick thinking and his ability to start counters and surprise attacks is to be feared. Of course he won't be figuring out the inherent weaknesses behind infinitely complex enemy techniques and strategies and aiming an infinitely precise attack to stop it a millimeter before it connects like kakashi, itachi or sasuke would do with a toothpick, a rubber band and a half used eraser with their eyes covered and hands tied but we sure as hell can expect a naruto clone to pop up from any random place at any random time and use "one thousand years of pain rasengan". Or he could also use his rasengan which nowadays has 1001 mostly unnecessary variations and uses.

I agree with u, my rambling is coz people does not agree with that, since that was one of the strong issues, where he best Jiraya and His own father at the tournament, and he is not qualified to be a winner, this thing that i showed proves my point 100% he may be creative at the moment to fight but come on, noticing that something wont work and at the same time using it, is like trying to break your skull wide open at an unbreakable wall. He should have lost the tournament.

Actually....Naruto isn't a strategic genius. He's a tactical genius. Strategy is long term combat planning, studying the situation and surroundings ahead of time and comming up with a plan of action. Being a strategic genius requires the ability to predict possible outcomes the way Shikamaru always plans for multiple possible scenarios and how Yamato was explaining how they do in the ANBU (when they were going to the bridge to catch Sasori's spy).

Naruto on the other hand thinks on his feet and comes up with countermeasures as the battle progresses based on his immediate experiences regardless of past experience. So it's easy to call him a "moron," but in reality there are many forms of intelligence that come in handy in different situations. He may not have the IQ of Shikamaru or Sasuke or Neji to be able to analyze a battle situation before the battle starts. But the fluidity of his tactical skills show that he's able to quickly and easily (for the most part) "outsmart" his opponents by catching them off-guard after figuring out ways around their defenses almost by instinct.

This is also why the shadow clone technique is best suited for him and after his wind element training he was a "different person." Using shadow clones, he's able to use trial and error in mid battle to figure out his opponent, gain the experience from those skirmishes, and create a tactical advantage for himself that fits each opponent.

I also want to point out that strategic intelligence can only take you so far. It's best for ambushes and long term planning (like for the ninja war) but once you get into the nitty-gritty of battle, if you run into an opponent your strategy didn't consider, survival depends solely on tactical planning and being able to take things as they come.

But even with that he is capable (according to all who gave him the win in the tournament) of beating people who do have that kind of abilities.

[kkck]

Dunno.... From what we have seen from the insanely strong fighters so far, fights could usually go either way. I mean, naruto might be an idiot but overall the boost he gets from kyubi is THAT huge. Didn't he take the raikage's punches and surpassed his speed? Naruto is literally the fastest shinobi alive. On top of that he has 1001 rasengans, futonrasenshirikens of all sizes, limitless chakra, limitless limbs with virtually limitless range, he can use clones even in kyubi mode, it is quite hard for his enemies to hide from him due to his sensing..... Kishi has exaggerated naruto's power to the point of outright stupidity. Just having kyubi cloak is enough for naruto to put fucking Mcgyver to shame easily. Even accounting for naruto's inherent stupidity and his grossly overfed one man army messiah complex, naruto does indeed have everything he could possibly need to go up against the best and come out on top. To be honest I don't even think minato is as powerful as he is made out to be, as far as we saw he was a one jutsu man. Seriously, as far as we know it should have been one of those susanoo users who wins the tournament. Invulnerabilty, range, sealing....

[Anduren]

I dunno anything about a tournament . I was just saying that's just how Naruto is. As far as a battle between Naruto vs another person goes, the only way to see how it would go would depend on the author and how the story is supposed to go. Personally, I think most ninja can strategically outsmart Naruto easily. For example, the whole of the Ninja world were able to fool Naruto and restrict his movement during the ninja war indefinitely with a simple lie....if it wasn't for the unexpected kyuubi chakra from Impure World Resurrected Kin-Gin characters which the ninja strategists like Raikage and Shikaku didn't plan for. Someone like Itachi was just playing with Naruto even after the time skip (he could've caught him at almost any time). If it wasn't for Kakashi being there, Deidara would've easily provoked Naruto into falling into his traps. So yeah....as far as mind games and planning ahead goes... most elite ninja would be able to manipulate Naruto easily. But because of the way that plot always seems to follow Naruto around, even if he's seriously injured and restricted (like when he was pinned down by Pein), he would fight his way out somehow, being the #1 hyperactive knuckelhead ninja in konoha.

As for the strategy vs tactics I mentioned....the best example I can give is the shikamaru/asuma's team vs Kakuzu & Hidan battle where even though they were great strategists they weren't able to come up with effective short term tactics because they didn't know what to expect to be able to come up with a strategy (at least their orginal strategy of killing one and capturing the other failed). In such a situation, Naruto would've probably done better....maybe .

[LnDRash]

the best example I can give is the shikamaru/asuma's team vs Kakuzu & Hidan battle where even though they were great strategists they weren't able to come up with effective short term tactics because they didn't know what to expect to be able to come up with a strategy (at least their orginal strategy of killing one and capturing the other failed). In such a situation, Naruto would've probably done better....maybe .

Naruto vs. Hidan would have been over in no time... he's waaaaay too reckless to avoid losing a drip of blood.

Not only that but Naruto is the only character I can think of who's actually stupid enough to ignore the curse and keep on slamming Rasengans into Hidan while he's in his Reaper Form, in hopes he could outlast him in terms of endurance.

[Knatz]

Naruto vs. Hidan would have been over in no time... he's waaaaay too reckless to avoid losing a drip of blood.

Not only that but Naruto is the only character I can think of who's actually stupid enough to ignore the curse and keep on slamming Rasengans into Hidan while he's in his Reaper Form, in hopes he could outlast him in terms of endurance.

It would not end fast becoz sasuke stuck his arm thru naruto and kyubi chakra fixed the wound that should have killed him.
Also kabuto did something fatal to naruto (in find tsunade arc) which he survived becoz of the kyubi.
Actually now that I think of it the only ways a jinchuriki may die is of old age or the removal of the biju

[warbandit66]

It would not end fast becoz sasuke stuck his arm thru naruto and kyubi chakra fixed the wound that should have killed him.
Also kabuto did something fatal to naruto (in find tsunade arc) which he survived becoz of the kyubi.
Actually now that I think of it the only ways a jinchuriki may die is of old age or the removal of the biju

Against Hidan it wouldn't matter if the wound closed up because once he has your blood it's over.

[ashher]

Well, naruto proved Anduren right in his battle against edo raikage, didn't he? Anybody who was saying that he is helpless when bruteforce doesn't work should be eating his words now.

[M3J]

I think it was already proven Naruto didn't need just brute force to win, he's freakin' clever. Brute force isn't as effective without strategy, which Naruto is good at.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

As I see it now the only problem Naruto has is his lack of performance when he doesn't use neither Sennin Mode, nor Kuyubi Chakra Mode.
Of course during the War he can't learn more about Taijutsu and Ninjutsu, but I believe that he might learn a bit more if the manga won't end after the War.
P.S. I know that it's not his style to learn deeply ninjutsu, but still.