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Thread: Sakura's "manipulation" and the destination of Team7

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ameya730's Avatar
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    Sakura's "manipulation" and the destination of Team7

    i think the fundamental issue is whether manipulation is good or not acceptable or not and in that regards i would have to say that manipulation is an ingrained part of everyone

    like greg house says "everybody lies" i say "everybody manipulates"

    small children using crying as a manipulation technique to get what they want, we exaggerate our abilities in interviews to get the job we want, lovers manipulate their loved ones by telling them that they would bring stars from the sky to prove their love etc etc etc

    even if the persons involved in the acts above dont consider it as manipulation it still does not change the fact that they got the situation altered as per their convenience which is what manipulation is all about

    so did sakura manipulate naruto absolutely.. did she do anything wrong absolutely not...

    i mean its kinda double standard to hero worship itachi as good guy when he manipulated the fuck out of sasuke and consider sakura a bitch just because she tried to relieve naruto of his burden

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 470 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    well it depends.
    if going to the fundraiser is what she knows beyond doubt her husband would never want to do and would never be happy doing,but she herself wants to do no matter what her husband wants.then it is.

    but if she feels that the reason that her husband is so unhappy because all he thinks about is earning money and not finding the inner peace,but the later is actually what he craves for really(just don't understand himself) and does whatever she can to make him understand that,......then i call it 'saving','caring','showing light'....but not manipulation.(a great example of this kinda situaltion would be ruroni kenshin:trust and betryal......plz watch that.its one of the best OVAs i've ever seen)

    my ans should have been obvious from the previous post i made.follow my reasoning there and this is the only ans.
    the manipulator need not end up happy for manipulation to exist. The manipulation only generally needs to serve the purpose of the manipulator. The purpose of the manipulator may be selfish but it doesn't have to be, it may instead be a selfless purpose. Link.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 470 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    the manipulator need not end up happy for manipulation to exist. The manipulation only generally needs to serve the purpose of the manipulator. The purpose of the manipulator may be selfish but it doesn't have to be, it may instead be a selfless purpose. Link.
    its not really a question of happiness,or selfishness.

    it the question about what is actually the will of the one supposedly being manipulated.If the manipulator believes that he is emotionally using the manipulated to turn away from what his true will is,it is manipulation to me.

    but if the 'manipulator' believes that he is merely appealing to emotion to make the 'manipulated' realise and achieve his(the manipulated's) own true will,then its not manipulation to me.

    i tried to make that clear with the example of Jesus.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Askia32's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 470 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    so askia32

    jesus was doing good manipulation,naruto was doing good manipulation when he saved nagato,the policeman did good manipulation when he saved the drunkard,and sakura is doing good manipulation.

    if that's how u wanna use the word 'manipulation' without giving a thought about the 3rd question,and term all forms of social interaction manipulation(edit:as said by ameya730 and supported by u),cause they appeal to the emotion of a person........then its ur choice really.

    but i feel not everything should be called manipulation,that's why there are other phrases 'like showing the right way' and words like 'helping and caring'.I will keep using them.

    And i am a little mad at u,cause u without following my reasoning,claimed to do that by giving an excuse like 'and that's how i see it'.u r free to see that way,just don't quote me.
    My apologies, I was not trying to offend you.

    But you actually might be right. The definition of manipulate(along with the context we have been talking bout) is;

    1. to manage or influence skillfully, esp. in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings. (credits to dictionary.com)

    Skillfully being the key word. This means to me that while your manipulating, you know full well your trying to manipulate. But, if your actually genuine, than its not manipulation.

    In Sakura's case, that could still go either way.

    EDIT// Deleting my stuff about Jesus, dont want to offend anyone
    Last edited by Askia32; November 04, 2009 at 11:36 PM.
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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 470 Spoiler Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    its not really a question of happiness,or selfishness.

    it the question about what is actually the will of the one supposedly being manipulated.If the manipulator believes that he is emotionally using the manipulated to turn away from what his true will is,it is manipulation to me.

    but if the 'manipulator' believes that he is merely appealing to emotion to make the 'manipulated' realise and achieve his(the manipulated's) own true will,then its not manipulation to me.

    i tried to make that clear with the example of Jesus.
    You are creating a fictional definition of manipulation, imo.

    And you were calling it a question of happiness for the manipulator:

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    since when manipulation meant that the end result is supposed to make the manipulated happy,and not so much for the manipulator?
    So, did you not mean it or are you changing your mind?

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member TeAm#7FoReVer's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 470 Spoiler Discussion

    What does Jesus have to do with this topic? I hope nobody use Hitler as example, also.

    A manipulator is a manipulator no matter the way you see it. Sakura used Naruto´s feelings for her own good or bad purposes. She knew Naruto loves her and she tried to give him what he wanted but with one condition: give up Sasuke. I do not know why did she not tell him before, when he returned to Konoha after he had defeated Pain? If she had confessed on that moment, Naruto would be really happy and he would have accepted her feelings and believe her; however she did it in the most critical moment with hidden reasons.

    Note: 100 posts! I am Member! Yeah!
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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Sakura's "manipulation" and the destination of Team7

    Alright,we have had a lot of discussion about different sides of the recent attempt of Sakura to allegedly manipulate Naruto.(M3J promised to move some of those posts here which were removed from the discussion thread).

    So,if anyone wants to continue debating on whether that was a manipulation or not,or about "good manipulation" thingy,he can do it here.

    But what i am more interested in is the second part of the discussion title.
    So far,except for naruto and sasuke,there have been very little hints on what roles sakura and kakashi is gonna play.Now with these recent incidents,sakura has finally shed her childhood naivety (hopefully) and also took kinda joint leadership with shika among the rookies.

    also it was kakashi's decision to keep things secret from sakura in the 1st place.He has got his hand full with trying to ascertain the info from madara.And when he does that,he should be among the front line junins who should try and outwit madara politically.

    so right now,for the first time,there has been a little misunderstanding and mistrust and keeping secrets/lying things among the trio naruto-sakura-kakashi.And as a result,specially sakura,seems to have gone on a different separate path.

    So when and how do u think their paths will converge again?

    Here i would like to remind u of a line that gives a feeling like a foreshadowing to me.Sakura said to Naruto that next time she will definitely be with naruto when he faces sasuke again.

    so my fantasy is kinda like:danzo imprisons kakashi.and gets to work with madara for a period. Kakashi breaks out and lead the rebellion and makes danzo run away from village.Meanwhile Naruto has been to myabukuzan and then on the search for madara.Around the same time period he defeats madara.while sasuke captures and kills the run away nin danzo.danzo was being tracked by sakura and she ends up learning the location of sasuke and informs naruto.they together goes against sasuke (or sakura has the first go while naruto is on the way).After the first phase of 3 of them fighting together,Naruto and sasuke faces each other in a last round.

    i would specially like it if sakura does not find out about the uchiha incident till the last and somehow naruto is turned to villain from here in the eye of the villagers,by danzo at the time when he imprisons kakashi.

    so the initial phase of the final fight can really be a tripple sided match.

    anyways,the attempt to "manipulation"(?) by sakura and her subsequent choosing of a different path is a really good thing to happen.we almost certainly know the ways that naruto and sasuke are gonna take,(while we may have differences on details,we know that they are gonna be the last 2),but now sakura and kakashi hold a large part of the uncertainty that remains in this series.

    I think it will be interesting to share what u ppl are thinking about how the 'new' sakura and the 'reborn' kakashi is gonna affect the destination of the Team 7.(u might also include sai,cause that guy seems to have gotten more involved in team matters recently,though i doubt if yamato will be of any significance)

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