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Thread: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by poobert View Post
    I don't deny that the son inherited the MS as the sharingan is the eye of the juubee.

    But I do not understand why he would favour the elder son with so much power. He had no choice whether the son got the eyes or not, but he would have a choice to give him the biju.

    If what you say is true, then he made the younger son his heir, but entrusted the elder with the power of all of the biju as well as making him the effective guardian of the juubee. Why would you give this to someone who wanted war.

    He basically said, "your moral view is wrong and love not war is the answer, here have the juubee you warmongering son of mine...." It doesn't make sense.

    To add to that, when nagato talks about the moon the sage made, he talks as if his knowledge is very indirect. Why would he not be more certain if he had read the writing of the sage himself. (I know I may be reading too much in to this translation).
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/439/08/
    Well, we really do not know to what extent rikudo prefered one son over the other. We really don't know if things were as bad as you imply when rikudo took his pick(they do seem to be that bad after his death though).

    Ok, lets say the rikudo had not picked the elder son to carry on whatever he was supposed to do with biju? Could the guy have just chosen the younger for that? NOPE. The younger had love and charisma, none of which would be vaguely effective in dealing with biju. In this sense, assuming things were as bad as you imply, the sage had no option but to trust his older son.

    Now, another alternative lol(I might just guess if I predict every concievable scenario lol). We know the jubi seemed to have a sharingan like eye. On top of that, the son's sage descendants got the sharingan and the MS which could control biju. What if the MS comes directly from the jubi's chakra and it was responsible for making the rikudo's son have a doojutsu? The sage could have planned to break up the jubi for a long time so the jubi decided that the second the sage had a son he would take the chance to give it the power to control biju. In this sense, there would be a number of people on earth with the power to tame and control biju and with that the capacity to gather them and remake the jubi. Basically the jubi would take advantage of any descendant the sage has who is desperately looking for power(sounds familiar lol).

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member poobert's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ok, lets say the rikudo had not picked the elder son to carry on whatever he was supposed to do with biju? Could the guy have just chosen the younger for that? NOPE. The younger had love and charisma, none of which would be vaguely effective in dealing with biju. In this sense, assuming things were as bad as you imply, the sage had no option but to trust his older son.
    That's like saying Naruto could not be trusted to handle the biju. He wants to remove war through love, but that won't stop him kicking the ass of any biju (who are a lot weaker than the juubee, and so chances are any son of the sage could have trashed them in a fight).

    Quote Quote:
    Now, another alternative lol(I might just guess if I predict every concievable scenario lol). We know the jubi seemed to have a sharingan like eye. On top of that, the son's sage descendants got the sharingan and the MS which could control biju. What if the MS comes directly from the jubi's chakra and it was responsible for making the rikudo's son have a doojutsu? The sage could have planned to break up the jubi for a long time so the jubi decided that the second the sage had a son he would take the chance to give it the power to control biju. In this sense, there would be a number of people on earth with the power to tame and control biju and with that the capacity to gather them and remake the jubi. Basically the jubi would take advantage of any descendant the sage has who is desperately looking for power(sounds familiar lol).
    I like this idea. The juubee would be like the 9 tails in Naruto and be really pissed that it was trapped. It could have given its cursed chakra to the son in the hopes that it would corrupt the family and eventually one of them will free him. My guess is the juubee was more like the fox. Very very evil and vey very clever.

    If this is the case however, it strengthens my theory that the sage's son left the tablet. The tablet gives instructions on how to control the chakra bits of the juubee with the MS. It is like the juubee wrote it himself so that it would influence someone in the future looking for power to free him.
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  3. #18
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member zagorka's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by Yondaime Uzumaki View Post
    OK, here we go. So I'm reading over old chapters and something is bothering me. It's about this tablet that Madara spoke of. It just doesn't make sense. Why would the Rikudō Sennin leave a tablet that can only be read by someone with an eye power? His heir doesn't have a doujutsu, so why? It's obvious that he didn't want the juubi coming back, but leaving something like that for someone that you don't see fit to be your heir directly contradicts that idea.
    It's called a plot hole. There is no answer for this stupidity.

  4. #19
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Quote:
    That's like saying Naruto could not be trusted to handle the biju. He wants to remove war through love, but that won't stop him kicking the ass of any biju (who are a lot weaker than the juubee, and so chances are any son of the sage could have trashed them in a fight).
    How is it like saying that? How was the young son supposed to control biju that were no in him on his own? The issue here is the physical imposibility the younger one had when controlling the biju. I do want to point out we have no guarantee the elder son was really all that bad. He might have had a good relationship with his father and brother until the day the rikudo had to make his pick. I mean, he was at least considered as an heir, it's not like his dad completely got rid of him(At least IMHO).

  5. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member poobert's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Killerbee, Yugito (if i remember right) and Hashirama could all control biju without eye techniques. Hashirama himself controlled a number without ever becoming a host. The younger son definitely inherited stuff from the sage, so a way to suppress the biju could be one of them.

    There is a lot of speculation here because he know little about their abilities.

    The tablet is the key to all we can know, and we only have madara's interpretation of it. If this manga ends before madara gets the 9 tails, then we probably will never see it again. If madara manages to start up his moons eye plan then we may get answers if Kakashi/sasuke and Naruto get their hands on the tablet.
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Maybe someone from the hyuga clan can read part of the message of the tablet

    during the chunin exams, kakashi says that it is believed that the sharingan descened from the byakugan,

    considering that the sage of the six paths had children and one of them had "the eyes" but clearly, no one else since the sage of the six paths had the rinnegan, i would think that the sage of the six path's son had something that looked more like the byakugan

    later one the lineage of the son of the sage of the six path's must have split up into the byakugan and sharingan, (also, i think it is mentioned that ppl did expierments on people , combining different eyes, in order to get to the sharingan

    if u take a byakugan eye and a sharingan eye and put them on top each other, the lines of the sharingan plus the all whiteness of the byakugan would form something that looks similar to the rinnegan

    maybe they will use kakashi's MS plus the byakugan to decode as much information as they can

    well i know it says that one son got the body and the other got the eye but they should have similar genes regardless, and the byakugan kind of has the "body" in the sense that it can shoot chakra out of each of it's pores

    if the uchiha clan has a temple with the knowledge of the sage of the six paths, maybe the 1st hokage knew of a temple for the senju clan as well, and maybe the 5th hokage will go and discover it
    Last edited by Elite_user; November 16, 2009 at 05:57 PM.
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  7. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Oathencrantz's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    I wonder what the Hyuuga would see IF the stone tablet was compatible with the byakugan. I reckon it holds quite significant/interesting information, maybe a fail safe i.e. Eight Trigrams One Billion Palms on the moon to counter the very possible global Tsukuyomi...






















    ... dream on.

  8. #23
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    How is it like saying that? How was the young son supposed to control biju that were no in him on his own? The issue here is the physical imposibility the younger one had when controlling the biju. I do want to point out we have no guarantee the elder son was really all that bad. He might have had a good relationship with his father and brother until the day the rikudo had to make his pick. I mean, he was at least considered as an heir, it's not like his dad completely got rid of him(At least IMHO).
    What you're saying is correct. Howerver, the person who controlled the most bijuu in this Manga is Harishama, who, by coincidence, is also a descedent of the younger son.
    So, the younger son probably had the ability to control bijuu as well, perhaphs with greater efficiency than the older son-

  9. #24
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    What you're saying is correct. Howerver, the person who controlled the most bijuu in this Manga is Harishama, who, by coincidence, is also a descedent of the younger son.
    So, the younger son probably had the ability to control bijuu as well, perhaphs with greater efficiency than the older son-
    True, it is within the scope of possibiities that the younger son had the power to control biju but we have little evidence to support that.

    Quote Quote:
    Tobi: All legends have their basis in reality... // The Rikudou Sennin truly did once preach of the ways of "ninshuu", in an attempt to bring peace to the world... / ...but his time came before that dream could be fulfilled. // As such, he entrusted the power and spirit of ninshuu to his two children. // The elder brother was born with the Sennin's eyes... the ability to comprehend the power of chakra and mental energy. / He believed that the key to bringing about peace was power. // The younger brother was born with the Sennin's body... the ability to comprehend life-force and the energy of the body. / He believed that the key to bringing about peace was love. // As he lay on his deathbed, the Sennin was forced to choose which of them would succeed him... // But the decision he made created an eternal curse of hatred.
    Naruto: What do you mean?
    This is cnets translation of this chapter, it seems to be a little different from most translations around. Anyways, what little we know seems to indicate the younger son had no KG. It does make sense his descendants could be born with different KG though.

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  11. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Yondaime Uzumaki's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Anyways, what little we know seems to indicate the younger son had no KG. It does make sense his descendants could be born with different KG though.
    From what little we know, it doesn't seem to indicate whether he did or didn't have a KG. Actually, it leans more to the theory that he did have one. Hashirama didn't get his from nowhere. The fact that he not only had a KG but one that could control bijuu shows that it was handed down. It wouldn't make sense for him to have a KG passed from the younger brother if the younger brother didn't also have that ability. It would be like Madara having a KG but the older brother having no doujutsu. It had to start somewhere, and Hashirama's powers are from the younger brother, within the powers that were given to the younger brother by the Rikudo Sennin. It was a part of the powers that were contain within the Rikudo Sennin's "body".

    The only way it could be any different is if Hashirama got his KG from another entity all together or if he got it directly from the Rikudo Sennin and it skipped the younger brother. If it was from another entity(like a different side of the family), it would make no sense for him to be able to control the bijuu. It would also make no sense for it to skip over the younger brother when the powers handed down from the Rikudo Sennin were at there strongest with the younger brother. Anything after the two brother was were probably just watered down versions of what they used to be, much like the two brothers were just watered down versions of the Rikudo Sennin.
    Last edited by Yondaime Uzumaki; November 17, 2009 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #26
    Fruits Punch Samurai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted BBB Banana's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by Yondaime Uzumaki View Post
    From what little we know, it doesn't seem to indicate whether he did or didn't have a KG. Actually, it leans more to the theory that he did have one. Hashirama didn't get his from nowhere. The fact that he not only had a KG but one that could control bijuu shows that it was handed down. It wouldn't make sense for him to have a KG passed from the younger brother if the younger brother didn't also have that ability. It would be like Madara having a KG but the older brother having no doujutsu. It had to start somewhere, and Hashirama's powers are from the younger brother, within the powers that were given to the younger brother by the Rikudo Sennin. It was a part of the powers that were contain within the Rikudo Sennin's "body".

    The only way it could be any different is if Hashirama got his KG from another entity all together or if he got it directly from the Rikudo Sennin and it skipped the younger brother. If it was from another entity(like a different side of the family), it would make no sense for him to be able to control the bijuu. It would also make no sense for it to skip over the younger brother when the powers handed down from the Rikudo Sennin were at there strongest with the younger brother. Anything after the two brother was were probably just watered down versions of what they used to be, much like the two brothers were just watered down versions of the Rikudo Sennin.
    I also think that the younger son had a K.G. but is possible that he didn't had one.

    It's like having blue eyes one of your parents may have it but you can have brown eyes and then your son having blue eyes.

    So let's assume your mother had the BB genes but you father had Bb (being b-black and B-blue)

    there's two combinations: BB; Bb ( in order to have blue eyes you need 2 B genes)

    If you had Bb you would have black eyes but then you mary someone with BB genes or Bb genes

    in the first case you son could have BB in the second BB or Bb

    So the sage's son could have gotten more his mother's genes but then he married someone with K.G. or half K.G blood like him and his son could have inherted the K.G.

    Perhaps there were interacial marriages in order to pass the K.G. but that's unlikely since the two brother's families had a bad relationship.
    Last edited by BBB Banana; November 24, 2009 at 08:14 PM.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    KG are genetic mutations...these mutations have to be strong in order to be passed on... tsunade for example can't control bijuus from what I know, neither could tobirama... so I lean towards young bro doesn't control bijuu...it is a really a random thing like yagura and bee...and it is known that most part of the bijuu taming ability came from that necklace which responded to mokuton of course, but still...

  14. #28
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member zagorka's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    KG are genetic mutations...these mutations have to be strong in order to be passed on... tsunade for example can't control bijuus from what I know, neither could tobirama... so I lean towards young bro doesn't control bijuu...it is a really a random thing like yagura and bee...and it is known that most part of the bijuu taming ability came from that necklace which responded to mokuton of course, but still...
    1. I wouldn't call them genetic mutations. But anyways, there is no link of them being "strong" for them to be passed down. Just read your statement. It doesn't make sense. Unless you meant to say it in terms of dominancy. Like a couple: One blond haired and the other dark haired. Black hair is dominant and is more likely to be passed down.
    2. The 1st could control bijuu, most likely through his blood-line limit. Maybe his mokuton KG, was in tune with nature, and that is why he could control them. Who knows exactly why, but because Tsunade can't control them, proves that she doesn't have the blood-limit as the 1st did. It's possible that many people have this KG in the village, but are either not shinobi, or just don't know period. (In my opinion it should have been a more common KG in the Fire Country.)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Gingitsune's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    First, I went to get the oldest son's picture HQ from mangahelpers' database, he has neither Rinnegan nor Sharingan, rather some spirally new eye design. Therefore, I'm not sure if he could produce a tablet with passage only readable by the rinnegan.

    Spoiler show


    Quote Quote:
    Why would the Rikudō Sennin leave a tablet that can only be read by someone with an eye power? His heir doesn't have a doujutsu, so why? It's obvious that he didn't want the juubi coming back, but leaving something like that for someone that you don't see fit to be your heir directly contradicts that idea.
    Rikudō Sennin was a sennin, that much sounds obvious, but bare with me. Sennin do senjutsu, it's a simple matter of semantic, just like wizards do wizardry and ninja do ninjutsu. We have met two sennin so far in the story, Jiraiya and Naruto who were both taught by frogs. It is possible than Rokudō was thaught senjutsu by the frogs and that he got a prophecy from the young Ōgama sennin. That prophecy would have ask him to realize the tablet which can be read differently with different doujutsu. Or else, Rikudō himself was the prophet and made the stone as he saw fit. That's about the only way I see this tablet non-sense to actually make sense.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't recall Pain/Nagato ever mentioning that they went to visit Konoha to read a tablet and Madara didn't sneak it away since Sasuke read the tablet recently(well in the last 10 years that is).
    Itachi manage to sneak in with Kisame unnotice for hours, he could have brought Pain in at some point. Or Madara could have used Kyuubi attack as a diversion while Nagato snuck in to read the tablet.

  16. #30
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Re: Rikudō Sennin's tablet and Madara's misconception

    Quote Originally Posted by shinsengumi View Post
    yea,and he picked the younger one as his heir "who doesnt possess doujutsu"
    On his deathbed. I'm pretty sure he wasn't making giant stone tablets while dying in bed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gingitsune View Post
    Itachi manage to sneak in with Kisame unnotice for hours, he could have brought Pain in at some point. Or Madara could have used Kyuubi attack as a diversion while Nagato snuck in to read the tablet.
    Or madara teleported them all in. He doesn't need to pass the barrier this way.
    Last edited by Darth Executor; December 01, 2009 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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