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Thread: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

  1. #31
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by DARK View Post
    There is no evidence to support this, sure. But Kubo doesn't really have any evidence to prove the opposite either. Kubo only provided so much on the subject of how Menos formed. Since the majority of the Espada/Arrancar died anyway, I don't think that it's really that relevant anymore.
    Actually we know what the Hougyoku does, for the most part anyways. And we have seen it in use and nothing suggest that it stops Hollow evolution. Actually if anything the power it grants only promotes evolution because it grants power to Hollows and Hollows need power to evolve. Seeing as how Ulquiorra and Yammy, two Arrancar that got power from the Hougyoku, have shown us that they can indeed, at the very least, change their forms and power. No other Hollows in general have shown us that. Ulquiorra was even able to change the power he got into regenerative skills. That definitely sounds like an ability obtained through evolutionary methods to me. And Ulquiorra even said that Aizen doesn't know about his other release. So that right there is a indicator that the Hougyoku dose not crate a "celling" for Hollows after they become Arrancar in terms of further evolution and growth.

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

  2. #32
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    I've followed the discussion a bit,so this post it's not a reply to everything stated before...hollows that remove their mask are arrancar, not hollow...these are terms so I think there's no problem with them...but if an arrancar or anybody claims he or she is a hollow then I think that's just pride, of his origins of his own self and looks at his or her shinigamification as an increase of power...

    As for the development of arrancars...they do develop I think...as somebody said Nnoitra is the best example of evolving...his weapon changed and he got ranked up in the espada, though we don't know if these 2 things relate...but the evolution is obvious...there's always Ulquiorra, who seeked evolution and got Segunda Etapa.

    The difference between the evolution of the arrancar and menos are just the terms... both entities can evolve, but arrancar develop as whole, shinigami powers+hollow powers
    and the menos are improving their hollow powers thus aiming for adjuchas or vasto lorde status...
    So the development can stop as a hollow(as noted by Shawlong), but when a hollow becomes arrancar, then a new direction is opened in where he can aim to develop...
    Of course this last statement is just circumstantial info gathered from the manga, so until more info is shown on how hougyoku works and if there can be errors or not, then I think my assumption is logical

  3. #33
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Evil3ye's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by DARK View Post
    Nnoitra told Neliel that he became stronger since she left. It wasn't clearly stated that Nnoitra obtained this power by eating more Hollows (we would have seen him do so if that was the case). All he had to say on the subject was that he was thankful that "Aizen gave [him] more power." (via the Hougyoku).
    eehh.. uhmm
    Can you give us the link for that pls, I just wanna know what exactly he said according to that. Can't remember it anymore..

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Like i said i'm sure you can get power different ways. But each Hollow class that we have seen/heard of basically requires even more Hollows to get to the next stage of natural (slow) evolution. Either through absorption of fusion of some kind. The Hougyoku is basically just a short cut that speeds up and refines the process of becoming an Arrancar.
    No that's not right. Hollows evolution into an Arrancar is not natural, nor the transformation into a Vizard. The natural Hollow evolution is like; Menos Grande/Gillian, Adjuca, Vastrolord (fin). Ripping off the mask is artificial, same like Aizen's experiments on the Shinigami who became Vizards later on. It has only been said that the evolution into an Arrancar is not faster, if you use the Hougyoku.. the result is just way more powerful
    Last edited by Evil3ye; November 29, 2009 at 02:06 PM.

  4. #34
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    No that's not right. Hollows evolution into an Arrancar is not natural, nor the transformation into a Vizard. The natural Hollow evolution is like; Menos Grande/Gillian, Adjuca, Vastrolord (fin). Ripping off the mask is artificial, same like Aizen's experiments on the Shinigami who became Vizards later on. It has only been said that the evolution into an Arrancar is not faster, if you use the Hougyoku.. the result is just way more powerful
    I think the better phrase should be not normal, no unnatural...IIRC then Isshin or Urahara said something about arrancars occuring before, but that it was a rare phenomenon...

  5. #35
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity CBlitz's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Arrancars are artificial Adjucas and (possibly) VLs that are superior to their natural counterparts. Kubo hasn't really explained everything behind the whole caste of the hollows so I've no clue about the absorbing hollows thing

  6. #36
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    I wouldn't call them VLs, but UR right in a way...in terms of power they could be close and probably they are

  7. #37
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity DARK's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    eehh.. uhmm
    Can you give us the link for that pls, I just wanna know what exactly he said according to that. Can't remember it anymore...
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/313/05/

  8. #38
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Evil3ye's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Actually we know what the Hougyoku does, for the most part anyways. And we have seen it in use and nothing suggest that it stops Hollow evolution. Actually if anything the power it grants only promotes evolution because it grants power to Hollows and Hollows need power to evolve. Seeing as how Ulquiorra and Yammy, two Arrancar that got power from the Hougyoku, have shown us that they can indeed, at the very least, change their forms and power. No other Hollows in general have shown us that. Ulquiorra was even able to change the power he got into regenerative skills. That definitely sounds like an ability obtained through evolutionary methods to me. And Ulquiorra even said that Aizen doesn't know about his other release. So that right there is a indicator that the Hougyoku dose not crate a "celling" for Hollows after they become Arrancar in terms of further evolution and growth.
    Every single Arrancar do change power and form when releasing, so it's not true what you say. Also it's nothing special to me, that some have still enough power of an other powerup after releasing once. We've seen that Aarancar like Ggio Vega can become stronger as well, it's nothing odd or special about one not using all power at once. An other of Barragan's fraccion could also rise his level by breaking his mask apart.

    It it's just Yammy's ability to become stronger by getting angry.
    And what Ulquiorra said according the instand reg, does not match with that you've mentioned. It was actually said that it's not a special ability, since ever single hollow can do it. But a the most of them gave it up to gain more strength. Just he did not and still could use it after becoming an Arrancar.

    And Ulquiorra's second release.. well he said Aizen didn't seen him like that and from all Espada he's the only one who's capable of it.

    Oh and btw! Where exactly is it stated that Yammy and Ulquiorra were made by the Hougyoku? You know.. Espada 1 and 2 were not, and yet they were stronger, how comes Ulquiorra is weaker then am?
    (pls don't start with 4² > 1,2 and what not.. because he's just not.. )

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    I think the better phrase should be not normal, no unnatural...IIRC then Isshin or Urahara said something about arrancars occuring before, but that it was a rare phenomenon...
    hmm.. well yeah sure.. it's actually not that seldom either, since most of the known Arrancar are not made by the Hougyoku.. but yet it's a kind of procedure into the Hollow evolution, which is not natural ;/ hope ya get my point lol


    Quote Originally Posted by DARK View Post
    haha yeah ok, he deffo is speaking about a new ability and power boost, whichc is most likely the Hougyoku, but he did not say it

    but there are some things that really do not make any sense to me in this manga. It's the fact, that Starrk and Barragan were confirmed not being made by the Hougyoku, yet being the most powerful Arrancar among the Espada (besides 0 of course )
    Last edited by Evil3ye; November 29, 2009 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  10. #39
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    Every single Arrancar do change power and form when releasing, so it's not true what you say. Also it's nothing special to me, that some have still enough power of an other powerup after releasing once. We've seen that Aarancar like Ggio Vega can become stronger as well, it's nothing odd or special about one not using all power at once. An other of Barragan's fraccion could also rise his level by breaking his mask apart.

    It it's just Yammy's ability to become stronger by getting angry.
    And what Ulquiorra said according the instand reg, does not match with that you've mentioned. It was actually said that it's not a special ability, since ever single hollow can do it. But a the most of them gave it up to gain more strength. Just he did not and still could use it after becoming an Arrancar.

    And Ulquiorra's second release.. well he said Aizen didn't seen him like that and from all Espada he's the only one who's capable of it.

    Oh and btw! Where exactly is it stated that Yammy and Ulquiorra were made by the Hougyoku? You know.. Espada 1 and 2 were not, and yet they were stronger, how comes Ulquiorra is weaker then am?
    (pls don't start with 4² > 1,2 and what not.. because he's just not.. )


    hmm.. well yeah sure.. it's actually not that seldom either, since most of the known Arrancar are not made by the Hougyoku.. but yet it's a kind of procedure into the Hollow evolution, which is not natural ;/ hope ya get my point lol
    <hr noshade size="1">

    haha yeah ok, he deffo is speaking about a new ability and power boost, whichc is most likely the Hougyoku, but he did not say it

    but there are some things that really do not make any sense to me in this manga. It's the fact, that Starrk and Barragan were confirmed not being made by the Hougyoku, yet being the most powerful Arrancar among the Espada (besides 0 of course )
    Who said the Hougyoku made Ulquiorra and Yammy? I just said they, just like probably all of other Espada, received some form of power from it. And even Nnoitora said that after gaining power from Aizen that "the sky was the limit". Even Barragan refers to Aizen giving him some gift or power of some sort. So i seriously doubt that Nnoitora meant that he can't get any stronger and evolve any further when he said the sky was the limit. I mean thats just common sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    eehh.. uhmm
    Can you give us the link for that pls, I just wanna know what exactly he said according to that. Can't remember it anymore..


    No that's not right. Hollows evolution into an Arrancar is not natural, nor the transformation into a Vizard. The natural Hollow evolution is like; Menos Grande/Gillian, Adjuca, Vastrolord (fin). Ripping off the mask is artificial, same like Aizen's experiments on the Shinigami who became Vizards later on. It has only been said that the evolution into an Arrancar is not faster, if you use the Hougyoku.. the result is just way more powerful
    Dude you seriously need to consider reading or referring to the manga before posting. <.< Isshin and Urahara talked about how the new Arrancar were more refined than the ones they faced before. So yes becoming an Arrancar is a natural process. The Hougyoku basically just gives the Hollows more power so that they can speed up the process of evolving into Arrancar. Which naturally is a very slow process.
    Last edited by zerocooldx; November 29, 2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

  11. #40
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Evil3ye's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Who said the Hougyoku made Ulquiorra and Yammy? I just said they, just like probably all of other Espada, received some form of power from it. And even Nnoitora said that after gaining power from Aizen that "the sky was the limit". Even Barragan refers to Aizen giving him some gift or power of some sort. So i seriously doubt that Nnoitora meant that he can't get any stronger and evolve any further when he said the sky was the limit. I mean thats just common sense.
    OK, sry for that then, But.. why do you think evolving into a higher Menos type (while not being a Hollow lol) is the only way to become stronger?

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Dude you seriously need to consider reading or referring to the manga before posting. <.< Isshin and Urahara talked about how the new Arrancar were more refined than the ones they faced before. So yes becoming an Arrancar is a natural process. The Hougyoku basically just gives the Hollows more power so that they can speed up the process of evolving into Arrancar. Which naturally is a very slow process.
    And your source for that is..?
    Dude, I think you're mixing up the Hollow evolution, which surely is slow,.. with the step to become an Arrancar >.>
    Last edited by Evil3ye; November 29, 2009 at 03:56 PM.

  12. #41
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    OK, sry for that then, But.. why do you think evolving into a higher Menos type (while not being a Hollow lol) is the only way to become stronger?


    And your source for that is..?
    Dude, I think you're mixing up the Hollow evolution, which surely is slow,.. with the step to become an Arrancar >.>
    Becoming an Arrancar can be a natural process, that is clearly very slow. The only thing that the Hougyoku could possibly do is to create the necessary conditions for the process of becoming an Arrancar to occur and do so at a rapid rate. As well as to give power to Hollows in order for them to be able to evolve even future in some ways. Because Hollows naturally evolve through consumption or fusion of other Hollows. Hollows can become Arrancar both through natural methods via evolution and through artificial methods via the Hougyoku. But the Hougyoku does not "create" Arrancar, because that ability for Hollows to become Hollows already exists. It just creates the right conditions for it to happen quickly and efficiently.

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

  13. #42
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Evil3ye's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Sorry you did not anwer my question. Fact is, that we've seen Grand Fisher evolving into an Arrancar..
    and ya know.. 2 pages is not slow
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/25/18/ (still a hollow)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/25/19/ (no more hollow since no mask ;d)

  14. #43
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    Sorry you did not anwer my question. Fact is, that we've seen Grand Fisher evolving into an Arrancar..
    and ya know.. 2 pages is not slow
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/25/18/ (still a hollow)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/25/19/ (no more hollow since no mask ;d)
    Oh my god.....he clearly didn't evolve on his own. He evolved under one of Aizen's Arrancar and most likely their assistance. What I'm talking about is 100% natural evolution. -_-"

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

  15. #44
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Evil3ye's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Oh my god.....he clearly didn't evolve on his own. He evolved under one of Aizen's Arrancar and most likely their assistance. What I'm talking about is 100% natural evolution. -_-"
    lolwhut
    u serious????

    however.. your argument still fail since a Hougyoku ("unnatural" evolution) is nowhere to be seen, it's still hidden in Rukia's body

  16. #45
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Hangout Thread 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil3ye View Post
    lolwhut
    u serious????

    however.. your argument still fail since a Hougyoku ("unnatural" evolution) is nowhere to be seen, it's still hidden in Rukia's body
    Dude thats not an Arancar, he was mainly getting healed and changed a little bit. He probably evolved into something, but not an Arrancar. This is Grandfisher as an Arrancar. Mainly because he clearly has a sword and here his face is different from here in his Arancar form. Which was all caused by Aizen. So i have no idea what you keep on talking about. And for the last time read the manga before posting.

    "Upon the back of his body not a wound of retreat scars it."
    One Piece is a series created by a genius, it's a masterpiece, it's like a fine wine, it only gets better with time.

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