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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
One of the things I can't get out of my head is this particular panel.
The isn't there something weird in that image? At the end of the fullbring arc it was said ichigo's fullbring had merged with ichigo's shinigami powers and thus had strengthened him. Now, if that was actually true then shouldn't shirosaki also be wearing the armor ichigo is current wearing? When shirosaki first appeared he immediately went into old man zangetsu as soon as ichigo defeated him. Basically at the time shirosaki was being supressed by zangetsu. Then when ichigo defeated shirosaki shirosaki went inside ichigo and later on old man zangetsu removed him from within ichigo. At the time I would think ichigo was supressing shirosaki alongside old man zangetsu (although that is not terribly important to the point I am making). Now, seeing that ichigo is wearing the armor and not shirosaki it would seem like it is ichigo who is holding that bit of hollow powers. Is he ever actually going to fully merge those powers with shirosaki? It would imply yet another transformation from his sword though. Or perhaps he will be done with that next time?
So Kubo is so skillful, that he can draw emotions on face. Impressive. None other mangaka can do it. Because I, of course, said Kubo can't draw! And it has little to do with his horrible planning and simple pictures to fill space. Seriously, this post is just so offtopic that it pains me. I say "Keigo's face shouldn't take half of a page, if Kubo doesn't bother to sit for a 15 minutes drawing his face". You counter with "KUBO CAN DRAW AND HE CAN MAKE NICE LOOKING CHARACTERS!!!" Of course he can, did I ever say he can't? He's a damn mangaka... Or did I say he's making his pictures damn big, using too few of them on one page, thus making the chapter feel like nothing? And he uses simple pictures to fill that space instead of putting some details on them if they are to take half of a page.
If you can't grasp what I'm trying to say, don't bother replying, same goes to Schabrak. It's not the first time he writes something completely unrelated, that I can only laugh while reading. Last time he started attacking me because he forgot "name" doesn't only mean name of a person. xD Or he complains how people can't speak english, while he himself writes "fife" instead of "five" and can't distinguish between "than" and "then". I won't bother looking for more. If you're not a native and you do make mistakes, just shut it, not everyone here speaks english perfectly. I'm sure you could find some mistakes in my post too, probably typos and some grammar issues, tenses?
YEAH, KUBO CAN DRAW, END OF THAT TOPIC. AND YEAH, HE IS LAZY AND PUTS MINIMAL EFFORT INTO BRINGING US NORMALLY PACED MANGA, MAKES HIS DRAWINGS DAMN HUGE TO FILL SPACE. If you want to argue with that, don't bother showing me how Kira can make a scary face. I already posted a link with awesome Kubo's drawings of Yamaji's face and I already said he can draw. And that "sad" face of Ichigo from "The Blade and Me", for me, is not sad at all. It looks like a troll face. And emotions Kubo wanted to show was not sadness, but disbelief with astonishment and realization, that every was a lie. It doesn't look sad at all IMO. And yeah, it's a nice picture. It's at least detailed and really shows those emotions. You still don't get what problem I have with Keigo's face? It's plain-looking, easy to draw, emotions are not shown by face, but by little drop/tear (I don't know how to call it) on his right cheek and lines under his eyes. You can actually see Ichigo's nose on panel you posted. In Keigo's case, his nose is... what it is? We know it's a nose, but it's only because we presume it HAS to be nose, because he's human.
Last edited by Duniak; September 03, 2013 at 09:48 AM.
Sorry that I didn't consider attack and world names. Considering that 90% of the names in connection to both themes are not mexican/german of nature and had little to do with the plot itself later on, I had a different conjecture. Las Noches, Arrancar, Espapda, Resurrection and Letzt Stil, Vollständig, Säuberung/Auswahl, Stenrritter, Soldat, Wandenreich. Yeah with the right pronunciation one sounds more smooth, the other more strict. Are you happy now?
But back to topic: You say it's so plain, why bother drawing it to begin with, why waste half a page for that, when it's not really needed. Your problem is that you tried to present your judgement of that panel, for whoever might be in it, as the ultimate and right one. Somehow trying to dispute Sky Renders description of the faces, for what reason did you do that? It didn't reinforce your argument.
Kubo could have left out the "drop" and the emotion would be just as clear. Also complaining about noses, when only shots from the side get a more detailed one excluding the very detailed shots like Yamamoto/Bach since forever, is redundant. You seem to get the emotional state, so why complain to begin with? I'm still waiting for a reasoning for why Kubo Tite would have to draw a very detailed face when using half a page, one that doesn't include you wishing for him to do so because you don't like him wasting huge panels on plain faces.Quote:
Let me ask frankly, do you read any other manga with so many blank spaces and plain[totaly normal and usual for manga] faces? If you do, would you complain about those too?
Last edited by Schabrak; September 03, 2013 at 12:46 PM.
And those detailed shots should take half of a page, not something like that. To me, it looks like Kubo is writing a novel, and it's not long enough, so he makes the letters bigger, so it looks longer, despite short content.
For what reason did I dispute his description of faces? What? I wrote about Keigo's face, and told Sky Kubo's style of drawing and his skill are not related to my point at all. When it comes to Ichigo's face, I didn't argue about drawing style or anything, I just wrote, that I think emotions on that panel are different than Sky thinks. That's all. Yeah, it didn't reinforce my argument. Neither would arguing about Kubo's style and skill. So I wrote that I don't think Kubo's drawings are bad or anything. He can draw AWESOME panels, like ones with Yamaji or Ichigo. Making undetailed Keigo's face take half of a page, is "enlarging letters' size" for me.
Kubo likes drawing faces (rather, characters to be more "accurate"). Kubo loves his characters and wants to show them off. I think it's more about that than it is compensating for a lack of something else.
This chapter is a prime example:
From Renji's ridiculous recollection of Shutara to Ichibei's awesome man-beard to Hirako's crazy leer.
It's pretty clear Kubo wants the reader to be as into his characters as he is. Or, additionally, he wants the reader to be as inside of the characters as he is.
Hell, Bleach is full of this. This arc alone has some really memorable ones.
But do I think he does this because it's lacking is plot or dialogue or whatever? Naw.
Kubo, to me, is a grown up kid who is paid to draw what he likes.
Last edited by Exodi; September 03, 2013 at 01:16 PM.
Hey, thing is you didn't dare to simply write "Fuck you" and used the paragraph to attack grammatical errors stemming from english not being my first language. Instead of attacking the argument as I did, you've turned into something personal. When I complained about a paritcular post in the past, it was because something was unreadable/unintelligible, so it was a complain to understand the actual argument, to make it more clear or elaborate on something, you smart ass. I don't need to think highly of myself, if you showcase that you can't justify a more detailed shot. Why should Kubo do that when it's not necessary? You fail to argue for your complaint.
"excluding detailed shots"... what am I supposed to do with that, what are you trying to say? You know there is a difference between a bit detailed and heavily detailed faces shots in Bleach.
To you it looks...., don't beat around the bush and just say that you think he's deliberately slowing the pace, using gigantic faces because he has nothing else to draw. Huge accusations if you consider that to be his choice and Bleach being full of counterevidence. It's his chosen art style and presentation and he is doing a fine job with it.
Is Kubo a page waster because of this double shot too? It only takes up the lowest third of the pages. :/ Are other many other mangaka deliberately stalling with similar panels because they have so little to cover!? No, that's an accusation build upon your perception only.
Last edited by Schabrak; September 03, 2013 at 02:01 PM.
You started talking about how I shouldn't have used Past Perfect, and I told you why I did it. IIRC. Or maybe those were 2 different situations. I don't have time to look for it. But you could forget, you're "unfriendly" all the time, so you don't remember all the situations where you acted like a jerk.
Let us put a stop to this nonsense. I wanted to have a good chat about manga, art, drawing ability and the capabilities of the medium while discussing just how much an artist should invest in his work in order to be called "good". Instead I got this. What a shame, really.
On a completely unrelated note: any German fella can enlighten me on what "Wandereich" could possibly mean? I take it's taken for "Wänd", or "wall" if I recall correctly, making Wandenreich the "walled empire" (as in hidden behind a wall or whatever). I know it doesn't make sense in proper German, but could it be that Kubo wanted to do this? Snother possibility is that he shortened the word "Wandalen" ("vandals", if I am not mistaken). Anyone care to answer this?
Wände = walls
Vanden = nothing
Wanden = still nothing
Shortening Wandalen to Wanden seems weird as it's missing the last "l", but yeah, it could work, just as Wanden for walls might work somehow, since as you mentioned, Kubo doesn't really a care for being totally correct.
I would like to imagine it being a proper name, not some derivation.
edit: Just read on wiki that Wenden and Vandalen were equated by some authors, so you might be right all along.
Originally Posted by wikipedia-Vandals
He is more an artist than a storyteller, and it's pretty clear, because he puts more effort in his panels, which look great...to me it's nice eyecandy and I love the simplistic and "empty" pages as well...he can convey the mood of a fight really well...it's more atmospheric, I think...