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View Poll Results: Which is your favourite?- Naruto, Bleach Or One Piece

Voters
402. You may not vote on this poll
  • Naruto

    69 17.16%
  • Bleach

    32 7.96%
  • One Piece

    301 74.88%
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Thread: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

  1. #256
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    @Rofl: that Hidan-Kakuzu thing was actually a pun if you get my drift. I already know they were given a bit of background. It's true that we didn't get a bit of flashback about them like the others did, which is a bit of a shame. But I think we'll get some more development from Kakuzu in the war, like Sasori did. As a matter of fact, the only reason I support ET is because of the HUGE potential character development. Kishi is incredible when it comes to character development. Even Haku and Zabuza got a bit of development even after 500 chapters.

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  3. #257
    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225
    If you're trying to say Hidan and Kakuzu are good cos they are dead, what about the various resurrected villains?
    I'm pretty sure they have no development and is put there just for being the troops, but if you're fine with that, I guess it's your own opinion.
    Without spoilers: yeah, you're probably right: they are put there just for being the more advanced enemy troops. Still, you're forgetting that in Kishi's view he put them to have more development from the other side, that is good guys. For someone it will be really lame, for someone really cool. I think it can't be judged objectively and it depends whether you like sth like that or not. Also, like Newkerzy spotted, some of the zombies will have further development, aka Haku&Zabuza or even Sasori.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225
    Like you said "unlike many other characters", so why not?
    Why isn't Neji, rock lee, tenten and other members given development? Instead they weren't doing anything in the manga most of the time.
    In return, we get all kinds of development from Sasuke that makes many people who read it hates him.
    Because their development ended or even wasn't supposed to be? Besides, Neji's development will occur in this war sooner or later - for Kishi it was only at this moment that Neji can have one <without spoilers you probably know what I mean>. And please, don't compare one of the main characters with one of the side characters having or not having developments ^^'

    Also: there are ppl who hate Sasuke, and love Sasuke, and some in-between. Just look anywhere on Naruto forums and you will find this or that faction..
    ..:: I LoVe I's ::.. [Naruto] Share your thoughts on: Boobies

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  5. #258
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    They're not just villains, simply beings with their own views and way of life. As for OP villains, they're really boring, if you ask me. We NEVER get any development from them. Their purpose is to only get beat up by the main character. THAT'S really boring.
    What counts for you as development?
    Let me rephrase the question. Is the following for you development or not?

    A young pirate, let's call him crocodile dreams to be the pirate king. He travels the sea and makes a name for himself. He encounters Whitebeard and get's completely crushed. After the loss of an arm and a scar in his face he understands that there are powers far beyond his level and decides to give up on his dream. He tries to take over a country and find a legendary weapon but this plan fails because he encounters our heroes and gets beaten again. After that he finds himself once again completely crushed and doesn't even want to try again and so he ends up in Impel down. Then he hears about the war and thinks this is a good chance to kill whitebeard, the one who destroyed his dream. Our Hero on the quest to rescue his brother crosses his way again and they decide to team up to escape the prison. At the war he tries to kill whitebeard but fails. A lot of stuff happens during the war what I don't want to mention. After the war he finds the resolution to try it again. BTW his story isn't over yet

    So is this development or not? So it's not never is it?
    Let me ask you another question. Have you noticed the cover stories?
    Usually Villains get a cover story where a lot is explained about them and those from the coverstorys come usually back to the story.
    Want to bet that I can write something like the story above for nearly every OP villain?
    I will give you a list of characters that either got or will get their development later and this includes a circle development like the one from Wapol.
    So out of the Head: Hellmeppo,Gin,Kuro,Jango,Fullmetal,Buggy(??might be discussion worthy),Hatchi,Arlong,whole Baroque works especially Mr3,2 and 0, CP9, Enel, Hancock,Moria and all the villains to come.
    That's for me a lot more than Naruto even has.


    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    As in "potential" you mean powers, right?? nope, no way. Skypiea and TB arc was really the worst EVER. Does Oda HAVE to prolong the fights even more than necessary?? Naruto villain's fights aren't too short and yet not too long. Just the right amount and they're all extremely well balanced. And I'm not talking about power levels. I'm talking about the length of their fights.
    First of all. One Problem that OP has is sometimes the pacing and I don't mean the chapter pacing (which is always filled with a lot of stuff) but the story pacing. You are right, in those two arcs the boss fights got longer than they actually needed to be. BUT yes they needed to be long because the Author tried to build tension. He ends his fights always with a bang and in both arcs, especially during the skypia arc you could feel the helplessness of the characters, the wish for peace which was symbolized by the bell. I don't remember anymore when an arc was properly built up in Naruto. Maybe the pain arc but I shouldn't even start about that arc. However I never felt anything, no emotions at all during the Danzo fight because of the lack of proper built up.

    Second of all. I don't know what he means with "potential" but I mean potential. The potential of the Villains is WASTED. Which basically means the characters themselves are wasted? One example would be again Danzo. So much potential for storylines but none of them used.
    Another example would be Kisame. Can you show me a page that is supposed to make me hate him? I mean he captured some tailed beast with whom I as a reader have no emotional connection with. What else has he done? Stolen Information? Fought Bee? Maybe I have forgotten something. Could have happened. I like Kisame as a character. Villains are supposed to be hated. You are supposed to celebrate the fist in their face, their death or defeat.For me Kisame is the perfect example of a villian who is there just to get beaten up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    How good is it to an older reader, and how good for the prime target audience?
    Personally I see Naruto beeing most advanced in this field. It makes an effort to deliver a background to almost every important character. I think this makes it more interesting to older readers and more educational to younger ones.
    And once again I'm posting THIS link:
    top-10-manga-of-2009-demographic-breakdown
    Like you can see in every age group OP leads by far.
    The reasons are many but one of the reasons that you stated:
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    It makes an effort to deliver a background to almost every important character.
    Is done in OP excellent

    Others but not limited:

    Quote Quote:
    One Piece looks like it’s drawn for 10 years olds, so it’s striking how dark it actually is.Water 7 contains murder, summary execution, alcoholism, attempted suicide, conspiracy, child soldiers, war crimes, thought crime, forged evidence, show trials, torture (both physical and mental) and potential genocide.
    Quote Quote:
    Oda never focuses on the true depths of the darkness, or wallow in it. But it’s in the frame the whole time. Ten year old kids may not see it, because they’re not looking for it. But those who are more mature can see what’s really going on. I think this also contributes to One Piece’s popularity with older audiences. Like a Pixar film, it’s fun for kids, but there’s a larger story for adults to see as well.
    Last edited by Josl; January 30, 2011 at 11:03 AM.

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  7. #259
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Josl View Post
    And once again I'm posting THIS link:
    top-10-manga-of-2009-demographic-breakdown
    Like you can see in every age group OP leads by far.
    Everyone knows that (and the bottom link isn't working), but that's still not necessarily related to quality, which is what this thread is about.

    If it only was about popularity and if there was a consensus that popularity equals quality, then this thread would've been over right after the opening post and there wouldn't be a reason for a discussion.

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  9. #260
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    Everyone knows that (and the bottom link isn't working), but that's still not necessarily related to quality, which is what this thread is about.

    If it only was about popularity and if there was a consensus that popularity equals quality, then this thread would've been over right after the opening post and there wouldn't be a reason for a discussion.
    Sorry I don't understand. Your argument was that Naruto has more appeal to older readers than OP. I gave you the statistically fact that this isn't true and also gave other reasons to why this is the case. And in all honesty I don't think that you can compare two manga of whom you didn't read one.
    Last edited by Josl; January 30, 2011 at 11:36 AM.

  10. #261
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    the latest chapters say everything:Op is too slow and has got a lot of things that makes the manga not perfect. of course Bleach is worse than them:Naruto is the best.

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  12. #262
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ArtieBoy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Villain wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.
    Development Wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.

    And yes Naruto will Appeal more to a Mature audience, But only art wise One Piece Talks about more mature subjects that Naruto wont go into.


    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    the latest chapters say everything:Op is too slow and has got a lot of things that makes the manga not perfect. of course Bleach is worse than them:Naruto is the best.

    Naruto is only good right now because its @ a really crucial point in the series.

    just like how one piece was like 10x greater then bleach & naruto when it was the WB vs WG war
    Last edited by ArtieBoy; January 30, 2011 at 01:45 PM.

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  14. #263
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Actually naruto is not good at the moment. Its exciting. But its been better at other times, for example when naruto hyperventilated. I'm saying this totally seriously and waiting solemnly to be ridiculed.

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  16. #264
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Josl View Post
    What counts for you as development?
    Let me rephrase the question. Is the following for you development or not?

    A young pirate, let's call him crocodile dreams to be the pirate king. He travels the sea and makes a name for himself. He encounters Whitebeard and get's completely crushed. After the loss of an arm and a scar in his face he understands that there are powers far beyond his level and decides to give up on his dream. He tries to take over a country and find a legendary weapon but this plan fails because he encounters our heroes and gets beaten again. After that he finds himself once again completely crushed and doesn't even want to try again and so he ends up in Impel down. Then he hears about the war and thinks this is a good chance to kill whitebeard, the one who destroyed his dream. Our Hero on the quest to rescue his brother crosses his way again and they decide to team up to escape the prison. At the war he tries to kill whitebeard but fails. A lot of stuff happens during the war what I don't want to mention. After the war he finds the resolution to try it again. BTW his story isn't over yet

    So is this development or not? So it's not never is it?
    Let me ask you another question. Have you noticed the cover stories?
    Usually Villains get a cover story where a lot is explained about them and those from the coverstorys come usually back to the story.
    Want to bet that I can write something like the story above for nearly every OP villain?
    I will give you a list of characters that either got or will get their development later and this includes a circle development like the one from Wapol.
    So out of the Head: Hellmeppo,Gin,Kuro,Jango,Fullmetal,Buggy(??might be discussion worthy),Hatchi,Arlong,whole Baroque works especially Mr3,2 and 0, CP9, Enel, Hancock,Moria and all the villains to come.
    That's for me a lot more than Naruto even has.




    First of all. One Problem that OP has is sometimes the pacing and I don't mean the chapter pacing (which is always filled with a lot of stuff) but the story pacing. You are right, in those two arcs the boss fights got longer than they actually needed to be. BUT yes they needed to be long because the Author tried to build tension. He ends his fights always with a bang and in both arcs, especially during the skypia arc you could feel the helplessness of the characters, the wish for peace which was symbolized by the bell. I don't remember anymore when an arc was properly built up in Naruto. Maybe the pain arc but I shouldn't even start about that arc. However I never felt anything, no emotions at all during the Danzo fight because of the lack of proper built up.

    Second of all. I don't know what he means with "potential" but I mean potential. The potential of the Villains is WASTED. Which basically means the characters themselves are wasted? One example would be again Danzo. So much potential for storylines but none of them used.
    Another example would be Kisame. Can you show me a page that is supposed to make me hate him? I mean he captured some tailed beast with whom I as a reader have no emotional connection with. What else has he done? Stolen Information? Fought Bee? Maybe I have forgotten something. Could have happened. I like Kisame as a character. Villains are supposed to be hated. You are supposed to celebrate the fist in their face, their death or defeat. For me Kisame is the perfect example of a villian who is there just to get beaten up.
    1. Did we even see Croco's POV of his life?? (if we did, mind linking me??)

    2. Covers aren't really enough for me. It's only told from a third-person view, not the character themselves. What Naruto outdoes OP in this regard is that you are able to see the character's POV with your own eyes. It's as if you're the character itself.

    3. True, Kisame and some others weren't built up enough till the end. But do you SERIOUSLY want a huge-ass LONG explanation of their life?? this is Oda's weakness, he sometimes focuses on the build up of the characters too much that it sometimes derails the story for a bit. In Naruto, we usually get a brief flashback about their lives and yet Kishi masterfully plays them out so well that it defines their character in one fell swoop. (I might agree with you on Danzo, though)

    4. As for the big fights in Naruto, it's just about the same with OP. First, the characters are stacked with the odds in the enemy's favour, but the characters get through it. Just that Kishi doesn't prolong it anymore than necessary. (Hidan-Kakuzu was kinda bad, though)

    5. As for Kishi not having the guts to enter border-line mature stuff, I'm thinking it could be because Kishi's art style is so realistic that if anything border-line seinen was drawn, he could get a huge amount of backlash from parents in Japan. So I could understand that.

  17. #265
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    1. Did we even see Croco's POV of his life?? (if we did, mind linking me??)

    2. Covers aren't really enough for me. It's only told from a third-person view, not the character themselves. What Naruto outdoes OP in this regard is that you are able to see the character's POV with your own eyes. It's as if you're the character itself.
    .
    1.No there isn’t. But your argument was not that there is no POV type of storytelling but that there is no development and that you can not feel the villains in OP.

    Let’s go through the typical story telling of Oda.

    First he presents a villain. He makes him you (as a reader) NOT like him. He makes you hate him through the things and evil deeds he has done to character you actually like. Then the villains get beat up.
    Until here your argument is kind of legitimate but it looses all it’s truthfulness at the point the cover stories start. Once again on the example of crocodile:
    First the Baroque Works tries to free them from the Prison but Crocodile doesn’t feel like it:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...3/page001.html
    After that event we learn about his dream:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...8/page001.html
    Then we learn why he didn’t break out:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...0/page014.html
    He tries to kill Whitebeard:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...7/page012.html
    We learn why:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...3/page011.html
    Thinks happen during the war and after the war we learn that he had a “scar” and that the scar is now healed:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-593/page018.html

    Your average intellect reader can understand what the author tries to tell them and his story doesn’t end here. So the reader can understand him (which basically means FEEL) and he got a lot of development.

    Once again: Villains aren’t supposed to be liked. They are supposed to be HATED: So Oda presents his villains in that way and gives him development after they are defeated.
    He uses all of his character to a maximum and usually doesn’t waste them in any way unlike other mangaka.

    POV flashbacks are reserved for people who you shall understand/like/ sympathize with or for characters that are going to die to make their death more dramatic.
    POV flashbacks got basically every Strawhat because your are supposed to like them and to understand them (FEEL them).
    Then Flashbacks are used to make you understand conflicts and make you like the characters involved with them.
    Then POV flashbacks are used to make a characters death more dramatic and make you fell them for you. In OP the death of Whitebeard would be a good example.

    Kishi has the habit of getting rid (killing) character without ever using them to their full potential. Killing is good when you have used a character to the full potential or you are using it to progress the story in the best possible way but it is very bad when the character had so much potential for storylines or character development. An example of a good death in Naruto would be the death of Kaku and Zabuza (which got ruined for me after they got summoned)
    Another would be the death of Jiraiya and a few more. For bad deaths or character wasting: Kisame. I didn’t feel sad because he died. I felt sad because he was wasted. Danzo and few more would fall in this category.

    I’m terrible sorry that for you cover stories aren’t enough but for 95% of the people it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    3. True, Kisame and some others weren't built up enough till the end. But do you SERIOUSLY want a huge-ass LONG explanation of their life?? this is Oda's weakness, he sometimes focuses on the build up of the characters too much that it sometimes derails the story for a bit. In Naruto, we usually get a brief flashback about their lives and yet Kishi masterfully plays them out so well that it defines their character in one fell swoop. (I might agree with you on Danzo, though)

    4. As for the big fights in Naruto, it's just about the same with OP. First, the characters are stacked with the odds in the enemy's favour, but the characters get through it. Just that Kishi doesn't prolong it anymore than necessary. (Hidan-Kakuzu was kinda bad, though)
    .
    When I spoke about built up I meant the built up of conflicts, A lot of conflicts in the naruto verse aren’t built up/presented enough in a way that when they are resolved you(as a reader) feel satisfied. At least I often don’t feel that way and I’m pretty sure I’m not that alone with my point of view. When conflicts end in OP there is often a party afterwards. It brings the reader down and most readers are very satisfied with the way the conflict was presented and resolved.
    I neither need nor want long explanation of their life. I want them used to their fullest potential and built up as villains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    5. As for Kishi not having the guts to enter border-line mature stuff, I'm thinking it could be because Kishi's art style is so realistic that if anything border-line seinen was drawn, he could get a huge amount of backlash from parents in Japan. So I could understand that.
    Shonen Manga have certain limits of how brutal they can make it look this is true.

    Once again back to the whole maturity discussion even tough I don’t feel like I should

    Most people will agree that the first impression you got from OP is childish. The overall feel of Naruto speaks also for Naruto while the overall feel of OP 80% of the time is happy go.
    I don’t think that here is any conflict.

    The two things that decide (at least for me) if something is mature or not are the themes that are presented and the Drama. Both have them and both are appealing to older audience so who is more mature is not discussion worthy.

    What might is discussion worthy is which of those both Manga is “deeper”. The criteria for that are for me pretty much the same as above but for me OP wins in that comparison. Because in those 20% it isn’t happy go it portrays a wider range of themes and presents the drama better.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ameya730's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    @josl
    really good post. i did not notice this development of croc since i dont pay much attention to the cover stories. my respect for oda went up a notch.

    but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.
    out of which akainu is lawful neutral. his actions dont really feel evil. as far as blackbeard is concerned i dont consider him evil cause till now all he has done is attack pirates and killed marines. this is part of his job profile anyways - fight pirates and kill marines.

    thats why for me atleast the villains in naruto seem better as compared to one piece. in naruto i hate them (madara kabuto), pity them (kisame kimimaru) despise the system for creating them (haku) but in one piece i have not felt such kind of emotions with respect to the villains. mind you it might not be the problem with one piece itself but rather my preconcieved notion that pirates are anyways bad people so why feel for them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtieBoy View Post
    Villain wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.
    Development Wise Kisame Has nothing on Arlong.

    And yes Naruto will Appeal more to a Mature audience, But only art wise One Piece Talks about more mature subjects that Naruto wont go into.
    I'm actually curious about these examples that you didn't give...it's not that you have to give them, but still...don't misunderstand me I'm not saying One Piece doesn't have these subjects...tbh the discrimination subject is one of the earlies and deepest stuff in OP...but I'm not sure about Naruto not going into these subjects as well...for example we have discrimination as well...actually it's one of the premises of the manga


    Quote Originally Posted by ameya730 View Post
    @josl
    really good post. i did not notice this development of croc since i dont pay much attention to the cover stories. my respect for oda went up a notch.

    but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.
    out of which akainu is lawful neutral. his actions dont really feel evil. as far as blackbeard is concerned i dont consider him evil cause till now all he has done is attack pirates and killed marines. this is part of his job profile anyways - fight pirates and kill marines.

    thats why for me atleast the villains in naruto seem better as compared to one piece. in naruto i hate them (madara kabuto), pity them (kisame kimimaru) despise the system for creating them (haku) but in one piece i have not felt such kind of emotions with respect to the villains. mind you it might not be the problem with one piece itself but rather my preconcieved notion that pirates are anyways bad people so why feel for them.
    I guess that's just a point of view...for example I did like Arlong, and The Celestial Dragons are impressive characters and when their secret will be revelead everybody will go nuts...or Magellan even if he was just an episodic villain...

    By personal opinion is that in OP the villains are not so impressive, because the fine line between villains and goodies is very-very thin...even thinner than in Naruto


    However I agree that the villains in Naruto have a more personal approach to them in their characterization than the ones in OP...except Arlong probably and that mad guy(forgot his name) the leader of CP
    Last edited by benelori; January 31, 2011 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ameya730 View Post
    but there is one thing that i have to nitpick on. namely that even though croc has been developed i no longer see him as a villain. i know this might be premature and oda might make him into a villain. right now there are only two people that i consider truly to be villain akainu and blackbeard.
    That's because Crocodile is no longer a villain. He is now a rival
    In OP the villains are villains as long as they are not beat up.
    You can’t tell me that you didn’t hate Arlong. Even if for some reason you didn’t hate him the author tried everything in his power to make him hated by the audience. This applies to the most main villains (Croc,Enel,Lucci) during the arcs. Only AFTER they are defeated they got development. I did already mention Croc so this time let’s go with Arlong.
    Typical racist villain gets beat up.
    Hundreds chapter later we learn that the sun tattoo that everyone had was a symbol of freedom and that he might have been a slave. Now you could already pity him but I bet that there will be a flashback of some characters and that we will get the confirmation that he was a slave. He just can’t return because that what he did is unredeemable unlike Crocodile.
    Villains are portrayed as villains as long as they are villains. Another example would be Mr.2. First make the readers not like him by killing(beating) up a child and after that he becomes an ally. CP9 can also be pitted and Moria (all of his crew got killed by Kaido, got lazy and fat afterwards with a big scar) as well. After they got beat up they get development and become either allies or rivals but the hate is usually gone by that time. This is why OP villains are for me the better ones. As long as they are villains they are not liked and after that Oda makes us(readers) understand them and they become likeable.

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  25. #269
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Wow josl...after reading that story about crocodile, i'm getting worked up to read OP. One 'but' that nags me though is somehow it seems more like a popular character being brought back at times for the sake of making plot, and the plot not actually moving to show the development in the character. If i sum up things like that, quite a few other characters from different mangas may seem to have good development, whereas in actual manga it wasn't really well-conveyed or focused. I'll try OP again in any case. Oh about kisame, he wasn't wasted. He showed a side of the shinobi world. That is all its needed to satisfy me. It would've been way much easier to write an arc on him and one for all the named characters, but what's the point really? This way narutoverse seems to have better integration and cohesion...not just random arcs after arcs.


    About themes and maturity and depth stuff, i dunno about one piece, but naruto is much advanced considered that its a shonen. Judging from the 1st 250 chapters of OP, luffy's way seemed pretty much similar to naruto and many other shonen heroes. Thing is Naruto is the one shonen that actually dared showing that such ways are pretty much impractical in life. Starting from power levels to interpretation of the characters...almost everything varies from reader to reader in naruto. Even such a common theme as 'destiny' is ambiguous in naruto, and readers would debate on and on about what exactly it means in narutoverse. Its not a mere difference on liking and disliking a character, as its in OP. Or take a 'wasted' character sakura...her confession was crazy stuff. Was she a bitch,or was she one with a golden heart? This is why i value characterization in naruto highly...just like real ppl...you can't just have one single opinion about them, or any theme of this manga. Who was right hiruzen or danzo...no way to tell for sure.This is depth to me. Naruto has much grittier tone really.
    Last edited by ashher; January 31, 2011 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Naruto vs. Bleach vs. One Piece Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    @josl:
    You've brought up very good points. But I can't help but feel you're insulting my intelligence.
    .
    Was it the average intellect comment? I reread my post and it does seem offensive. However I meant to say that not only hardcore fans but also casual readers should be able to follow the development.
    If I offended you or anyone else with this comment I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    @josl:
    I disagree. I'll ask you this question. Have you ever thought WHY some people choose the wrong path?? have you ever asked why there are suicide bombers?? have you ever wondered why, in their right mind they would want to do that.
    .
    Doflamnigo said it best
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...6/page008.html
    Kids who never have seen peace and kids who never have seen war have different values
    Everybody likes three dimensional characters. Oda does make his villains seem two dimensional with a few exceptions. Only after they are defeated he starts to make them three dimensional. OP has a lot of bad villains, especially underlings of main villains get often the short straw but it has also a lot of good hated villains. Naruto has also a lot of good villains but some characters just seem so wasted, especially when you would like to see more of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    @josl:
    To clarify it more, the villains, to be precise, don't have much impact on the main character, so I can see why Kishi doesn't have much qualms over it.
    .
    It’s the author job to make them important or use them to their fullest if he has them written in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    @josl:
    As for other characters, I'll agree that some of them are extremely wasted. (Like Danzo) but I'll have to disagree with you on Jiraiya, before he marched on to his death, Kishi gave him a bit of development, he even tried to confess to Tsunade, but was too cowardly to do so. Not only that, I remember a bit of his character development back in Part I when he fought Orochimaru.

    I think you have misunderstood me. I mentioned Jiraiya as a good used character and a good death.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    Wow josl...after reading that story about crocodile, i'm getting worked up to read OP..
    If you do start the Manga again then start at chapter 319:
    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...9/page001.html
    The water 7 arc is loved by the whole OP community and is somewhere in their individual top3. This arc goes from 319-365 and goes over in big fighting arc. If you don’t like OP after Water 7 then you will never like it.
    A lot of people have stopped reading at skypia and started again successfully with the water 7 arc:
    Spoiler show

    But truthfully I don’t know if you are belonging to those people. Your taste is anti mainstream with which I mean you like what most people don’t like. An example would be that you like the naruto hyperventilated while most people don’t and a few other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    One 'but' that nags me though is somehow it seems more like a popular character being brought back at times for the sake of making plot, and the plot not actually moving to show the development in the character
    .
    It’s not only popular characters that are brought back but characters needed for the plot or have still a story to tell. But overall you are right. They are brought back for the sake of the story and get the development alongside. The development of characters in OP is subtle. I will try to explain what I mean. Take Zoro for example. When he met Luffy he said to him that if he stands in the way of his dream he will kill him. 600 chapters later he kneels to his arch enemy and begs him to make him stronger for the sake of Luffy. It’s through adventures they experienced together that do make their bond that strong. That can be said about every strawhat especially ussop who gets the most development. They are thinks that technically don’t even count as development such as sanjis. He was for 2 years on an Island full of transvestites and gets as a consequence nosebleed when he gets too exited. The flashbacks count more as characterisation.

    There is also a lot of deep stuff in OP like the question:“ Is it ok to kill 100 people to protect 1000?" and other ones.

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