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View Poll Results: Do you feel that Masashi Kishimoto is sexist?

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  • Yes

    192 43.94%
  • No

    245 56.06%
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Thread: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

  1. #16
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    It's true that Tsunade was very strong, and I thought that fight was good, but the fact that she has drinking and gambling problems, and that she is a common stereotypical female "healer" like women should be turn me off about her. That doesn't even touch the huge tits problem. Turn off safe search and google Tsunade images and see what comes up. A bunch of Tsunade porn. To me she's just a sex object. Hell, they can't even show her how she really looks. Why? Is it because looks are the most important thing about her? If she looked old would that diminish her as a character?

    Mizukage would have been fine for me if they didn't put so much emphasis on her being scary and unable to get a man. Why is she so self concious about not not having a man in the first place? Could it have to do with the idea that a strong woman isn't a desirable mate?
    Tsuande is stero-typical gambler and drinker, Jiraiya is a sterotypical pervert (along with half the male population of the manga). Bee is a Sterotypical "black guy". Shikamaru is the sterotypical "lazy genius". Shino is the sterotypical "creepy dude". There are a lot of sterotypes in the manga, and not all of them have to do with females.

    And perhaps the Mizukage had a tramatic experience and she hates men, or maybe Zabuza was her ex-boyfriend, who knows. Not enough about her has been revealed yet to pass judgement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Hinata: Arguably the best developed female character in Naruto. started off insecure (not weak, and I can't remember seeing her cry), but got over that. Naruto was the damsel in distress and she was his prince last time we saw them.
    Your kidding right?
    Last edited by Delbi; January 04, 2010 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  3. #17
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kusachu's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ren Boy- View Post
    Maybe Kishi has made Narutoverse seem to be sexist enviroment maybe due to the dominance of men in the early centuries but that doesn't make him a sexist. (maybe done purposely)

    It is like a white man writing a book which contains a lot of racist language like the N word. Doesn't mean he is a racist it is just that he is using it in the context of the story to make it more epic if you feel my catch?

    The stereotyping is common among society so it is kind of ok to put it in his work seeing as everyone else stereotypes
    True point, but there are PLENTY of stories written by men that have insightful and strong female characters. What I see happening in this story is the same as reading a girly manga where all the male characters are essentially females except they have male genitalia.

    But about using the racial slur thing, I read an article by a black female author about how she used to love the work of Stephen King until she came across and instance where he unnecessarily used a racial slur in his writing and that turned her off to him completely. It's all about context.

    If what he said in his recent interview is true, and he referred to Sakura in a disrespectful way and then went on to say that he wrote her that way because to him that's how real girls act, what does that say about his opinion of women?

    Don't go to TiDhA. It's dead. Japanese porn has overtaken it.
    "My heart was calm and still. Still and pure. However, it was purely evil. The only thing I desired was to grow stronger." ~Vegeta

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  5. #18
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Physical strength sort of gets thrown out when one throws ninja arts into the mix though. You can be the most physically strong character in the universe and lose to someone smarter than you. There is absolutely no reason why the women of the story should be left behind so much.
    Konoha is primarily a military force. Take a look at real life armies where women are allowed in and you'll see that they're still mostly male dominated. Women in general just aren't that excited about war. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's the inescapable reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Could it have to do with the idea that a strong woman isn't a desirable mate?
    Warp her into the real world and I'll take her gladly.
    Last edited by Darth Executor; January 04, 2010 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. #19
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity -Ren Boy-'s Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    True point, but there are PLENTY of stories written by men that have insightful and strong female characters. What I see happening in this story is the same as reading a girly manga where all the male characters are essentially females except they have male genitalia.

    But about using the racial slur thing, I read an article by a black female author about how she used to love the work of Stephen King until she came across and instance where he unnecessarily used a racial slur in his writing and that turned her off to him completely. It's all about context.

    If what he said in his recent interview is true, and he referred to Sakura in a disrespectful way and then went on to say that he wrote her that way because to him that's how real girls act, what does that say about his opinion of women?
    There is strong girl in Naruto but there is not enough time for them to get developed. We are at chapter 477 and we only have deep character development on 6-7 characters. Any more and the story would be to crammed so maybe there is not enough spotlight for the girls to shine.

    About the racial slur maybe the lady over-analysed everything, maybe your over-analysing this. This is a very controversial statement because we are analysing the content and not the man himself.

    Well assuming your talking about women like your age, lets use Kurenai as an example. She wasn't the strongest but she acted very mature. She is going to have a baby so the level of maturity and responsibility she has is high I believe.

  7. #20
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kusachu's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ren Boy- View Post
    There is strong girl in Naruto but there is not enough time for them to get developed. We are at chapter 477 and we only have deep character development on 6-7 characters. Any more and the story would be to crammed so maybe there is not enough spotlight for the girls to shine.

    About the racial slur maybe the lady over-analysed everything, maybe your over-analysing this. This is a very controversial statement because we are analysing the content and not the man himself.

    Well assuming your talking about women like your age, lets use Kurenai as an example. She wasn't the strongest but she acted very mature. She is going to have a baby so the level of maturity and responsibility she has is high I believe.
    Yeah, her role was to be a teacher to Hinata, Shino, and Kiba, but to what end though? What has she taught them? All we see of her students are things that they they probably learned from their families. She's the female counterpart to Asuma, there to be his damsel and to bear him a child. No real importance.

    It's frustrating. Compare the females in Naruto to the females in a show like Avatar that has great female characters. How many of those girls are clearly meant to be "sexy" or are shown to be inherently weaker than men? Perhaps it is a cultural difference, but I can't even think of an American kid show were the girls are portrayed as negatively as they are in Naruto.


    And sorry, everyone, as it seems I am arguing by myself here it's going to take a long time for me to reply to everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Konoha is primarily a military force. Take a look at real life armies where women are allowed in and you'll see that they're still mostly male dominated. Women in general just aren't that excited about war. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's the inescapable reality.



    Warp her into the real world and I'll take her gladly.
    Yeah, but as far as fictional super hero stories go, there's no reason why the main female character(s) have to be so far beneath their male counterparts. Yeah, it's a "young boy's" story, so maybe that's the problem in itself. How much do males care about the female characters and in what way do they see them?

    At first glance, what is the common conception of someone like Sakura (the main female character) that is being portrayed in the story in general? And every female for that matter? What do the majority think of them just based off what they've seen? And what interest do they take from them? How do men see the females vs. how women see them.

    For the majority of females there is not a lot of interest because they are almost all irrelevant.
    Last edited by Kusachu; January 04, 2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    Don't go to TiDhA. It's dead. Japanese porn has overtaken it.
    "My heart was calm and still. Still and pure. However, it was purely evil. The only thing I desired was to grow stronger." ~Vegeta

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  9. #21
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity -Ren Boy-'s Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Yeah, her role was to be a teacher to Hinata, Shino, and Kiba, but to what end though? What has she taught them? All we see of her students are things that they they probably learned from their families. She's the female counterpart to Asuma, there to be his damsel and to bear him a child. No real importance.

    It's frustrating. Compare the females in Naruto to the females in a show like Avatar that has great female characters. How many of those girls are clearly meant to be "sexy" or are shown to be inherently weaker than men? Perhaps it is a cultural difference, but I can't even think of an American kid show were the girls are portrayed as negatively as they are in Naruto.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    And sorry, everyone, as it seems I am arguing by myself here it's going to take a long time for me to reply to everything.
    She has not taught them anything we have seen but they are successful ninja in my opinion(all of genin 11 are...even tenten) for a women to take upon the burden of teaching 3 ninjas and to make them successful ones(into chunnins) is relatively good especially if your making kishi out as a person who undermines majority of the women in the series.

  10. #22
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Yeah, but as far as fictional super hero stories go, there's no reason why the main female character(s) have to be so far beneath their male counterparts.
    Naruto has no main female characters. The only characters I would consider main right now are Sasuke, Naruto and Madara (I don't even want to include Madara in the list as I'm fairly convinced he will die or be redeemed before Sasuke, but right now he is the primary antagonist so I have no choice). Also, some irrelevant third rate characters (like the kages) are more powerful than second rate, highly relevant characters like Kakashi or Shikamaru. Main characters do not necessarily have to be powerful characters, and in fact Naruto and Sasuke started off way weaker than they are now.

    Quote Quote:
    Yeah, it's a "young boy's" story, so maybe that's the problem in itself. How much do males care about the female characters and in what way do they see them?
    Probably not a lot, which I'm guessing is why we don't see a whole lot of them. Another reason why I'm guessing we don't see a lot of them is because Kishi sucks at developing them, knows he sucks at developing them, so he avoids them like the plague.

    Quote Quote:
    At first glance, what is the common conception of someone like Sakura (the main female character) that is being portrayed in the story in general? And every female for that matter? What do the majority think of them just based off what they've seen? And what interest do they take from them? How do men see the females vs. how women see them.
    Well, I can't speak for others, but I like most of them.

    Quote Quote:
    For the majority of females there is not a lot of interest because they are almost all irrelevant.
    A lot of male characters are irrelevant too. The story right now is focused on Sasuke, Madara, and only tangentially on Naruto (the main character) with a lot of kishi's side characters left in the dust. He says he's gonna develop Sakura into an actual heroine so we'll have to wait for that. I do wish he'd develop more of his side characters but i get the feeling he just wants to finish Naruto already and doesn't want to stretch into anything that's not of primary importance to the story.

  11. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member The Noobslayer's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Yeah, her role was to be a teacher to Hinata, Shino, and Kiba, but to what end though? What has she taught them? All we see of her students are things that they they probably learned from their families. She's the female counterpart to Asuma, there to be his damsel and to bear him a child. No real importance.

    It's frustrating. Compare the females in Naruto to the females in a show like Avatar that has great female characters. How many of those girls are clearly meant to be "sexy" or are shown to be inherently weaker than men? Perhaps it is a cultural difference, but I can't even think of an American kid show were the girls are portrayed as negatively as they are in Naruto.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    And sorry, everyone, as it seems I am arguing by myself here it's going to take a long time for me to reply to everything.
    <hr noshade size="1">


    Yeah, but as far as fictional super hero stories go, there's no reason why the main female character(s) have to be so far beneath their male counterparts. Yeah, it's a "young boy's" story, so maybe that's the problem in itself. How much do males care about the female characters and in what way do they see them?

    At first glance, what is the common conception of someone like Sakura (the main female character) that is being portrayed in the story in general? And every female for that matter? What do the majority think of them just based off what they've seen? And what interest do they take from them? How do men see the females vs. how women see them.

    For the majority of females there is not a lot of interest because they are almost all irrelevant.
    Hmm so you think those strategically placed camera shots in Avatar (Pocahontas re-imagined) of the female lead in a thong and nipple clothes was to show how strong of a character she was? I mean obviously the male character was wearing less, but we saw no such risque camera angle- because it boils down to target demographics and sex appeal.

    As you've noticed, females are the minority in reading manga, thus authors (whether pressured by publishers or not) target the male audience to increase sales as well as sustain them over time. Plainly put, this means creating "girls with big tits".

    Is this the same as sexism? No. Is how Kishimoto employs it sexist? Maybe. But as others have pointed out there are well defined female characters who you like but have "large tits". So as opposed to seeing there character traits it seems it is you that is focusing on their chest. Obviously they were drawn like that with male anatomy in mind, but Kishi could have made them into useless eye candy, but he made a compromise instead.

    Also, you seem to be overlooking the many MANY examples of Kishi's apparent, erm, love, of the male body. How many shots do we see of the male characters with their shirts off? Hell Sai is wearing a midriff bearing shirt to constantly show his tummy. The yao overtones are there, look at Deidara's hand tongues. If you don't think those are sexual then I dont know.

    Also, the first kiss in the entire story was between two boys. Not to mention the main "bond" between Naruto ans Sasuke is arguablt not platonic.

    If that doesn't show sex appeal to women or the gay audience, then you're right Kishi is sexist. I, however, would like to believe he is something far worse: a sell out to his publishers.

    Consider this, for every woman you believe to be useless, there have been 5-10 men that are just as wasted.

  12. #24
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Noobslayer View Post
    The yao overtones are there, look at Deidara's hand tongues. If you don't think those are sexual then I dont know.
    I thought he was just ripping off vampire hunter D.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, the first kiss in the entire story was between two boys.
    Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

    PS: awesome signature. I'm in stitches.

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  14. #25
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kusachu's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Tsuande is stero-typical gambler and drinker, Jiraiya is a sterotypical pervert (along with half the male population of the manga). Bee is a Sterotypical "black guy". Shikamaru is the sterotypical "lazy genius". Shino is the sterotypical "creepy dude". There are a lot of sterotypes in the manga, and not all of them have to do with females.

    And perhaps the Mizukage had a tramatic experience and she hates men, or maybe Zabuza was her ex-boyfriend, who knows. Not enough about her has been revealed yet to pass judgement.



    Your kidding right?
    Yeah, everyone loves Jiraya because he's a perv too. I mean, hey, he even told a young Konan to look him up when she turned 18. And I'm not touching the debate about Bee. That goes in the "Is Kishimoto a Racist" thread.

    Shikamaru? Well, he isn't really the stereotypical lazy guy anymore is he? He was allowed to grow past that. Yeah, he complains and lays around probably, but we don't see him that way anymore, and even a smart lazy guy could beat a strong girl in a fight.

    And about Mizukage, I don't really care about her problems with men, my problem is why did they have to even make it that way in the first place. I didn't enjoy that kind of comic relief. Couldn't they have introduced her in a serious and respectable way? Why does exploiting her insecurity have to be the way were introduced to her?

    Don't go to TiDhA. It's dead. Japanese porn has overtaken it.
    "My heart was calm and still. Still and pure. However, it was purely evil. The only thing I desired was to grow stronger." ~Vegeta

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  16. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    i dont think he is sexist. Sure a lot of women he drew are very attractive but do readers want to see butt ugly women and men in the manga (unless he/she is a joke char)? Also we have seen many capable woman in all positions in Narutoverse - Tsunade as hokage, the old lady in leaf seems to be an elder/advisor role to perhaps the ruler or leaf nation. We see Anko in anbu and very capable herself. We see Mizukage as a high level position and wouldve finished sasuke off if it werent for interruption.

  17. #27
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kusachu's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Side, note, where's my people who voted "yes"? Where's your replies? I guess I really am all alone in this, and there's nothing wrong with the females of Naruto.

    Don't go to TiDhA. It's dead. Japanese porn has overtaken it.
    "My heart was calm and still. Still and pure. However, it was purely evil. The only thing I desired was to grow stronger." ~Vegeta

  18. #28
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    And about Mizukage, I don't really care about her problems with men, my problem is why did they have to even make it that way in the first place. I didn't enjoy that kind of comic relief. Couldn't they have introduced her in a serious and respectable way? Why does exploiting her insecurity have to be the way were introduced to her?
    Because it's funny. I'm fairly religious and didn't take Hidan as an insult, I took him as a riot because him and Kakuzu had a great act going together. Ao and Mizukage do too. Also, if you think about it, Raikage and Tsuchikage were essentially introduced as jokes too, with raikage running through walls and crying like a little girl and Tsuchikage breaking his hip every other step he takes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Side, note, where's my people who voted "yes"? Where's your replies? I guess I really am all alone in this, and there's nothing wrong with the females of Naruto.
    Maybe they're just voting yes so you're not all alone. Coming to the rescue of the damsel in distress if you will.
    Last edited by Darth Executor; January 04, 2010 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  19. #29
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member The Noobslayer's Avatar
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusachu View Post
    Side, note, where's my people who voted "yes"? Where's your replies? I guess I really am all alone in this, and there's nothing wrong with the females of Naruto.
    There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the female characters in Naruto, don't mistake our arguments for that. It's just that I don't believe Kishimoto is chauvinistic about it. If Sakura and Ino were to generally represent girls at a young age, its because that's how he believes girls act at that age, not because he thinks women are inferior and therefore sabotages their characters. If anything the sexism in Naruto that you percieve is a result of Kishimoto's ignorance coupled with his publishers pushing him to capture his male audience. But as I have said, he has definitely (if not more so) targeted the female audience.

  20. #30
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    Re: Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Because it's funny. I'm fairly religious and didn't take Hidan as an insult, I took him as a riot because him and Kakuzu had a great act going together. Ao and Mizukage do too. Also, if you think about it, Raikage and Tsuchikage were essentially introduced as jokes too, with raikage running through walls and crying like a little girl and Tsuchikage breaking his hip every other step he takes.



    Maybe they're just voting yes so you're not all alone. Coming to the rescue of the damsel in distress if you will.
    I couldn't help but notice that most of the arguing here ahs been done by men though, who of course would see the characters differently. Yeah, there are a couple of girls that also voted no, but I anticipated as much since with a topic like there is going to be a lot of banter against the "negative opinion". People don't like to come out and say things like "I think the author is sexist". And I've said it before, votes that don't back up their opinion are useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Noobslayer View Post
    There are definitely a lot of things wrong with the female characters in Naruto, don't mistake our arguments for that. It's just that I don't believe Kishimoto is chauvinistic about it. If Sakura and Ino were to generally represent girls at a young age, its because that's how he believes girls act at that age, not because he thinks women are inferior and therefore sabotages their characters. If anything the sexism in Naruto that you percieve is a result of Kishimoto's ignorance coupled with his publishers pushing him to capture his male audience. But as I have said, he has definitely (if not more so) targeted the female audience.
    Yes, we ladies do often get fan service. Heck, this story is all but shounen-ai after all.
    Last edited by Kusachu; January 04, 2010 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    Don't go to TiDhA. It's dead. Japanese porn has overtaken it.
    "My heart was calm and still. Still and pure. However, it was purely evil. The only thing I desired was to grow stronger." ~Vegeta

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