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I disagree with you on Konan.
So far she has been the only person to come close to killing him.
He barely survived and that was only because of an uchihaxx asspull power.
Tobi was in terrible shape even after using his asspull power.
Which ultimately means, out of all Akatsuki she has accomplished the least.
Itachi – destroyed the Uchiha clan
Kisame – captured the four tales, and Intel tell for Akatsuki
Deidara – captured Gaara and the three tails
Sasori – initiated the second world war (third Kazekage) killed third Kazekage and turned him into a tool for his own purposes
Hidan – killed Asuma, captured two tails
Kakazu – fought Hashirama, captured two tails
Zetsu – soldiers for Akatsuki Army
Nagato – killed Jiraiya and destroyed the leaf Village
Don't you think things are a little lopsided here.
Last edited by KiSwordsman; March 15, 2012 at 11:08 AM.
there are pragmatic differences in female and male biology.
failing to recognise so is a mark of stupidity, not sexual equality.
the world is unfair that way. not everyone always has a way to balance out when he/she loses in a certain aspect.
also the part about being sex objects with tsunade as an example, females are like that. a lot of females would preen themselves at the expense of their time, money and sometimes health. it's a recognised behaviour associated with female biological instincts.
I don't see you talking about chiyo and grandma frog.
Well, Kishimoto did once state that he doesn't understand a woman's heart. I don't think it's so much that he is trying to be sexist, I think it's more like he doesn't really understand women. Also with the whole big chest thing, his target audience is teenage boys? so it's not surprising he includes things like that as fan service for majority of his audience.
That's just my take on it anyway.
Kishimoto is sexist, only not a such high degree. But it's not his fault, most mangakas and most people in the world is because overall people is just plain stupid.
If you want a non-sexist series, I recommend seeing Avatar: The Last Airbender and Avatar: Legend of Korra.
well,in the latest chapters tsunade has shown to be even stronger than A.is kishimoto changing his mind? and his point of view towards women?
Last edited by mattiaildivino; March 24, 2012 at 05:55 PM.
When did Kishimoto ever have a negative view towards women?
If we take sexism defined as: "Discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the opposite sex" - Wordnet.Princeton then I see no such notion occurring or being stressed in Kishimoto's manga. Women are not oppressed, abused, nor are they discriminated against within the general spectrum of Naruto -- though technicalities aside, we can certainly deduce that women are not on equal par with the men in Naruto. As many have already pointed out, the women are generally the weakest within their peer group(s) - this stems from the Genin teams to even through the Sannins. But, I find it to be too much of a stretch to simply claim Kishimoto is sexist because the women are not quite onto par with the men: perhaps Kishi simply is horrendous at female development? I find that to be quite the healthy alternative, aside from immediately branding him a sexist - Sakura, Ino, Tenten, and Hinata have little to no significance within the overall plot, with the latter of the four possessing no notable dynamicy whatsoever. Kishi himself has stated that he truly wanted to portray Sakura as a strong heroine when the entire spectacle with Sasuke and Naruto occurred(when Sasuke revealed his goal to destroy Konoha to both Naruto and Kakashi) - clearly this is a testament to the fact that he has no idea what he's doing.
However, branding him a sexist because of this is a little fatuous - any Otaku can tell you poor female development and low female prowess isn't limited to Naruto, and it certainly isn't only observed in Shounen; Death Note and Liar Game are just two quick examples of manga that portray women in an inferior light. It's quite evident in many different types of manga all throughout Japan. Though I can ramble about this for quite a bit, when it comes down to its fulcrum, I find the inferior portrayal of women at points to be more of a cultural issue than anything. But then again, that does not mean that one cannot make a conscious choice to bridge away from what the stereotypical portrayal of women is. Mangas such as Claymore and Freezing portray women as the strongest of the herd, the gender that possess the most power and potential. Granted, there is no true equilibrium within the mentioned mangas, so I suppose that does not aid Japan's case regardless.
To recap, Kishimoto isn't himself a sexist in the technical sense. He simply is a misguided individual when it comes to equaling out the power balance between men and women within his manga - which, though definitely not limited to him, is most plausibly a direct result of the cultural influence around him and his own writing prowess.
I'm already a little afraid to post something here because this seems to be a pretty serious issue for some people O.o
But I'll do my best to not insult anyone:
If you ask me Kishi is by far not the worst of the famous Mangaka when discussing this problem. Just look at the way Kubo is drawing his women. Most of them have like F-cup at least, with only few exceptions. Besides Harribel all Espada were male and in the really big fights no woman was ever involved aside from supporting the good guys.
Oda is pretty ridiculous too: Nami, Hancock, Robin, Vivi and the list goes on... all 90-60-90 top models and again I can't really remember any of those doing something major in the big fights other than most of them being protected or rescued by the crew. We also have fairy tail and don't get me started on Gantz... and probably a lot more I have no idea about.
So if I actually think about it, females in Naruto are a lot better off. Mei and Tsunade are actually kicking some ass at the moment and they are the leading shinobi from 2 out of the 5 biggest countries. Hinata showed some balls against Pain (and I think it wouldn't have helped if it was Shikamaru or Lee who jumped in, because Pain would have owned anyway...). Sakura, well, she's just unlucky. But then we also have Kushina, who is portrayed as a very strong woman (granted she had to be saved by Minato, but her kidnapping had an actual reason) and if someone can handle the Ninetails ass like she can you better respect her. Also the wife of the first Hokage was mentioned a few times and it seems like she was quite the person aswell. Tsuchikages granddaughter, Temari, a few girls from Raikages team, they all have some cool skills.
I can see how people would still be upset about the females in this manga, but the explanation that makes the most sense to me, would make kishi more of a businessman than a sexist.
I would guess that the biggest part of Naruto fans are boys between 10 and 20 or whatever (and I'm not saying it SHOULD be that way, but just image that statistics are this way), and those need charakters they can identify themselves with. And Kishi knows that, well at least I think that's how it is.
On a final note though, the way I see it Kishi even parodied perverts when he introduced Jiraya. The guy always spies on women and every now and then Tsunade beats him up (Breaking six of his ribbs in the process!! ò.Ó )
Men are physically stronger than women. Minus special training a man usually wins over a woman in a physical fight. How this is portrayed in any medium depends on the creator. Kishi had a neutral institution, chakra, dependent upon the powers of the body and spirit. So statistically speaking, one of the Konoha girls should be the dominant player of their squads. However, Kishi favored physical power over spiritual so the boys come out on top, and seeing that this is a teenage boys series it's not too surprising. Does that make him sexist? No more than any director of any action show out there aside from Lt. Ripley or the girl from Hunger Games. But theses are solo roles. Making a society where women are physically superior to men or on par with men is going to be a tough sell to any guy with an ounce of testosterone in him, and that's your target audience.
The women in Naruto aren't opressed, submissive, docile women who have no apirations of their own. Their aspirations are a bit limited in that they only want to hook up with boys or be like Tsunade, but that is a result of poor characterization which Kishi admits he struggles with. That doesn't make him sexist just a poor writer when it comes to women. Kishi doesn't exploit women though fanservice, and they're not airheads or sex objects. They unfortunately are the victims of poor characterization who cheer from the sidelines, get saved too many times, whose offensive capabilites are below par, and haven't defeated an opponent without assistance. That doesn't make Kishi sexist, just a shounen writer.
Last edited by Brill; March 29, 2012 at 02:10 PM.
It's funny that I haven't been lurking in MH for quite a while and when I visited this forum, this thread was alive. I haven't read the recent posts, but will get to it after this. I'm glad that this was bumped recently for I have seethed while reading the previous chapter. Look at this picture:
It's frustrating to see all Team 7 having the major fights of their lives, but where was Sakura in all of these. Again, I am not an avid Sakura fan. But I just find it unfair that the main heroine is once again benched under the shadows of his male team mates. It's sad. Times like these, I wish Kishi never created a female member of Team 7 at all. It's just sad to see her just looking over to her teammates when by this time she should have been shining, if not totally on par, with the rest of the team.
Is Kishimoto sexist? No. I still maintain my past answer. He's just gender insensitive and knows isht in writing female characters.
What is your definition of sexism?
Q :Is your problem that you feel Women are made to feel weak in this manga?
A: The title Kage means strongest in the village, At this point there are two out of 5 shinobi who are WOMEN and recognized as the current strongest of their entire village.
Q: But Sentazar, Those women have personality faults and they're not perfect! Look Tsunade has huge tits and Mizukage scares men because she is so strong!
A: All 5 Kages have strengths,weaknesses and personality quirks.
Tsuchikage : Flying +Expansion(Str), Bad Back (WKNS), Grumpy old man(Quirk) : Can be seen as "Old Men are Weak"
Raikage : Speed/Strength (Str), Impulsive (Weakness), Seen Crying a lot(Quirk) Has huge muscles to appeal to boys and girls (Same as your "OMG SHE HAS BIG BOOBS EYE CANDY!"
Kazekage : Controls Sand (STR), Premature/Weak Body(Weakness), Overly Emotional and Inexperienced "Young boys are crybabies"
Mizukage : Expansion, Intelligence (Str) No noted weaknesses thus far, Personality quirk = feels she is running out of time with men (I hate to tell you this but women actually DO FEEL THIS WAY I know you may not be an adult yet but a lot of girls at 27+ feel like theyre running out of time to get married and have kids)
I don't know what to tell you but this sexism that you feel may be from yourself.
Why is it so bad for women to fill the roles that they fill? Or Men? Its like saying "Its sexist to ask a woman to be a mother" Who am i going to ask a male? Is it sexist to not ask the 5 foot 10 petite girl to pick up the huge cinder blocks and ask the guy to do it? Honestly.
I'm good with big busts (runs in the family). It's more that Mizukage is almost misanthropic and alien, as her attitude is more than a little strange.Quote:
Never forget that in Africa, women often have to carry truckloads of water. They are able to do it by using different muscle groups. At the same time, a lot of guys are in nursing since it utilizes their upperbody strength. Though males have a body build for brute force and upperbody strength, women are built for stamina (we have to survive childbirth, and that is an insane stress on the body.)Quote:
Never underestimate women or men.
Honestly I do believe Kishimoto is either sexist or gay. The way he carries the female characters in his stories is very poor. He makes you hate them much more than like. There have been many "Gay" moments in Naruto compared to boy on girl action. Lets look at One Piece. There are gay men in OP and sex seems to be the last thing on Luffy's mind but I can tell that Oda like women by how he tells his story. Oda enjoys drawing women and making them attractive both physically and personality-wise. In Naruto the male characters are drawn more attractive than the female characters. Haku and Deidara are like the cutest characters in the series and they're both dudes. I'm not being mean or biased towards Kishi but I do believe the undertones in Naruto speak for themselves.