Is Masashi Kishimoto Sexist?

[Finale]

I'm assuming you meant Avatar the Last Airbender. That show didnt have too many problems with sex symbols because it was about a bunch of kids and there werent alot of grown ups. Even then alot of the girls, except Azula and Toph, were romantic objects. And they also had their fair share of character faults. I hope they bring the show back in some fashion because it was really awesome and as were the characters in it. How does a show like Avatar get ended after 3 seasons, with still plenty of strings left untied, while other crap shows keep going on and on i'll never understand.

But I can see where you are coming from about the women of Naruto. Having them have various problems helps them be more interesting. The male characters have their flaws as well.
But as for characters that dont fit your mold I would have to suggest Karui and that female rock nin that was at the summit. And I know I'm only getting away with it because they are simply ancilliary characters that havent had a chance to show much yet.

[Kusachu]

I'm assuming you meant Avatar the Last Airbender. That show didnt have too many problems with sex symbols because it was about a bunch of kids and there werent alot of grown ups. Even then alot of the girls, except Azula and Toph, were romantic objects. And they also had their fair share of character faults. I hope they bring the show back in some fashion because it was really awesome and as were the characters in it. How does a show like Avatar get ended after 3 seasons, with still plenty of strings left untied, while other crap shows keep going on and on i'll never understand.

But I can see where you are coming from about the women of Naruto. Having them have various problems helps them be more interesting. The male characters have their flaws as well.
But as for characters that dont fit your mold I would have to suggest Karui and that female rock nin that was at the summit. And I know I'm only getting away with it because they are simply ancilliary characters that havent had a chance to show much yet.

Hmm, well, Karui is pretty much just a bully with small boobs, like Sakura. And that Rock nin was a female?? Because I was so convinced that it was some sort of trick, you know, like with Deidara.

[Askia32]

Either Kishi is sexist, or he is simply following along in most of the manga culture of depicting woman and teens(shudders) as sexual objects.

This subject can be nit-picked every which way for either side of the argument, so its best to just look at it as a whole. How many female characters fall into the categories of the original poster compared to female characters that don't. I think its kind of laughable to say Kishi isn't sexist based on 2 women compared to 10 on the other side of the coin.

Crap, I'm late for work... Ill make my point and finish later.

Basically, there isn't enough evidence in the manga to suggest Kishi is sexist. Do I believe he is? Yes I do because of his latest interview. As crazy as Sakura has been acting, and the numero uno on most readers hated list, Kishi described her as the average regular girl. This is also what I believe pushed Kusachu to the point of making this thread.

[Exodi]

I don't think anything is wrong with them in general.

Sakura had her flaws, but I think she's changed. In my opinion, none of the other females had anything wrong with them.

[Drmke]

I wouldn't say he's sexist but as a shonen writer, he has a duty to draw manga that mostly young boys will enjoy. And boys tend to like watching male heroes. Females as love interests for the most part is just how most shonen are. Take a look at Dragonball, that manga was almost entirely male, very few females. That's just how shonen is, seems sexist but it works for the audience its aimed at.

[Gats]

About Temari : there is an interview where Kishi said that he is not interested to do a romance with Shikamaru in Naruto. So no Temari is not here for this.
I'm too lazy now to show you the exact sentence but the translation is somewhere in this topic : http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showt...t=2894&page=38
(good luck)

[Darth Executor]

I think its kind of laughable to say Kishi isn't sexist based on 2 women compared to 10 on the other side of the coin.

two? try almost all of them. there's only a couple that could possibly fit the stereotypes k listed, and even there we don't actually know because the two characters in question (karui and ino) have not had enough development to tell either way. even so, 2 characters like that do not make a man sexist.

[Kusachu]

I forget who said Kishimoto writes girls the way he does because he's ignorant of them, but I do have to note that at least from my perspective, ignorance has to be a viable excuse since I spent SO much time in the Is Kishimoto Racist thread defending him based on his ignorance of black people, but uh...is ignorance REALLY a good excuse? As I said before, I assume it is a cultural thing, since if I really hated hhim or anything i wouldn't continue to love his manga. But only HIS actions can change my views of the way he portrays females and seeing him talk bad about females like he did in that interview pissed me right off.

And he also said that he wasn't interesting writing Temari as a love interest, didn't he? Notice how quickly she vanished from the story without really doing anything except being a guard for Gaara??

Let's see if she shows back up, then I might reconsider my opinion of her.

[The Noobslayer]

I forget who said Kishimoto writes girls the way he does because he's ignorant of them, but I do have to note that at least from my perspective, ignorance has to be a viable excuse since I spent SO much time in the Is Kishimoto Racist thread defending him based on his ignorance of black people, but uh...is ignorance REALLY a good excuse? As I said before, I assume it is a cultural thing, since if I really hated hhim or anything i wouldn't continue to love his manga. But only HIS actions can change my views of the way he portrays females and seeing him talk bad about females like he did in that interview pissed me right off.

And he also said that he wasn't interesting writing Temari as a love interest, didn't he? Notice how quickly she vanished from the story without really doing anything except being a guard for Gaara??

Let's see if she shows back up, then I might reconsider my opinion of her.

I think if you read my posts in full you'll see I'm not giving Kishi an excuse or defending him at all. I am saying his isnt sexist, but rather an idiot and a sell-out.

[Askia32]

two? try almost all of them. there's only a couple that could possibly fit the stereotypes k listed, and even there we don't actually know because the two characters in question (karui and ino) have not had enough development to tell either way. even so, 2 characters like that do not make a man sexist.

For stereotypical character flaws, I'm using useless and annoying.

Also, some characters will be in more than one category.

Love Intrest: Ino(Sasuke Idiot), Sakura(Sasuke Idiot), Hinata(obsessed over Naruto), Temari(Sasuke idiot when first introduced), Mizukage(man idiot), Naruto(Sasuke idiot)

Sex Object: Tsunade(huge breast blond with alcohol problems), Mizukage(huge breast, damaged goods), Samui, (huge breast blond)

Damsel in Distress: Sakura(played this roll more times than I can count), Hinata(needed Naruto's cheers to have a fighting spirit), Tsunade(had to be saved by Naruto because of fear of blood when she's a ninja and medical specialist), Karin(Do I really have to explain?) Konan(Yahiko killed himself to save her)

Useless/Annoying: Sakura(we all know why), TenTen(no need to explain), Ino(even fighting Hidan and Kakuzu, she could only hide behind a tree the whole fight), Kurenai(was the one sent to take care of Kakashi by Gai and not Asuma when he is pretty weak), Hinata(even with having a byakugan that can see further than Neji's, she was useless during one of the many find Sasuke arcs), Naruto(the amount of shed tears over Sasuke is now compared to Sakura), Karin(is trying to fight Sakura for the top spot of most annoying female in the series)

I mean come on? Did you seriously mean what you posted, are you arguing for the sake of arguing, or arguing against my post before you even thought about what you were typing?

[Kusachu]

I think if you read my posts in full you'll see I'm not giving Kishi an excuse or defending him at all. I am saying his isnt sexist, but rather an idiot and a sell-out.

I did read your posts in full, but I can't reply to every single point in every post, and your points didn't make me believe that he isn't sexist based on his apparent attitude towards women. I'll go back again though and see if there's anything more that I might have got confused from all the other post. I do thank you for contributing a valuable opinion though. You make pretty good points.

sex·ism
n.

1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

I'm going for more or less number 2 more so than number 1 there, since there's obviously women in powerful roles and all, but even still, I don't get why powerful women have to look like pin-ups.

---

For stereotypical character flaws, I'm using useless and annoying.

Also, some characters will be in more than one category.

Love Intrest: Ino(Sasuke Idiot), Sakura(Sasuke Idiot), Hinata(obsessed over Naruto), Temari(Sasuke idiot when first introduced), Mizukage(man idiot), Naruto(Sasuke idiot)

Sex Object: Tsunade(huge breast blond with alcohol problems), Mizukage(huge breast, damaged goods), Samui, (huge breast blond)

Damsel in Distress: Sakura(played this roll more times than I can count), Hinata(needed Naruto's cheers to have a fighting spirit), Tsunade(had to be saved by Naruto because of fear of blood when she's a ninja and medical specialist), Karin(Do I really have to explain?) Konan(Yahiko killed himself to save her)

Useless/Annoying: Sakura(we all know why), TenTen(no need to explain), Ino(even fighting Hidan and Kakuzu, she could only hide behind a tree the whole fight), Kurenai(was the one sent to take care of Kakashi by Gai and not Asuma when he is pretty weak), Hinata(even with having a byakugan that can see further than Neji's, she was useless during one of the many find Sasuke arcs), Naruto(the amount of shed tears over Sasuke is now compared to Sakura), Karin(is trying to fight Sakura for the top spot of most annoying female in the series)

I mean come on? Did you seriously mean what you posted, are you arguing for the sake of arguing, or arguing against my post before you even thought about what you were typing?

!! I absolutely LOVE that you included Naruto in there, and you are so right to do so since Naruto himself is shown as a big tittied blond on more than one occasion. Good job with that.

[LittleMissNemesis]

It seems pretty obvious that the females are ineherently weaker (less is expected of them in the first place) than their male counterparts. Making prominent female characters love interests isn't a problem, but making romantic love the primary motivation and/or crippling preoccupation of nearly all of the significant ones is. Though Part II is better than Part I in this department, I think that Kusachu is mostly right. Does this mean that the presence of weak male characters makes the gender disparity in team strength more reasonable? No.

I can see two exceptions. Chiyo was old and badass, no doubt. She was a warrior- an adequately flawed character with an interesting story arc. The other exception is Temari, who is a minor character who hasn't done much, but is a jounin and seems like a harcore pro. I wish she was in the series more, mostly because of how weak or needy almost all the other female characters are.

Upon Mizukage's introduction, I believe my thoughts were 'you've gotta be shitting me... I mean, of course she's like that'. Before we knew anything about her capabilities, history, or any other personality traits, what did we learn about Mizukage? That she's very insecure about being a single woman and has a tender side. Really? She's a village leader on the way to a major conference- this is what she's thinking about? Now, she did show well against Sasuke, which surprised and pleased me. I still don't understand why her marital status and concern with it was her introductory defining characteristic. Do we know about the love lives of any of the other new kages? No, because it's unimportant to the roles they (are supposed to) play.

What about Tsunade? First, her gambling, drinking and cleavage play no part in why I think she's lacking as a figher or Hokage or Sannin. Upon introduction, Tsunade, a doctor, had a crippling fear of blood after watching her boyfriend/husband/whoeverthefuckthatguywas die. A NINJA DOCTOR with a fear of blood. Are you kidding me? They want her to be Hokage and she almost lets Kabuto kill her because of her emotional problems? Kabuto?! Gah!

She did show some strength during the Sannin fight, but it was obvious that she was the weakest of the three- the other two were severely handicapped and Orochimaru still showed pretty well against her. If she was a dude, I'd think he was just as inadequate, but to me it seems that kishi views females as somewhat handicapped, making it acceptable for them to fall behind the boys and still seem tough enough. It's like it's more acceptable for the female characters to act stupid or weak. So, Tsunade is a tough leader... for a girl...

Edit:
Sakura-
Part I- Useless and embarrassing to watch at all times. The fact that Kishi wanted her to be just an 'average girl' is enough for me to know that he has no clue about women/girls or, rather, that he sees them as something so Other that this is the best he could imagine- two faced, boy-obsessed beyond duty or reason, unable to control their emotions at all, weakest link. Look, I like flawed characters- flaws make characters interesting, but Sakura was all flaws all the time.

There's more I'd like to say, but I'm in the middle of something right now. More soon... maybe...

[Delbi]

Although I do agree that Kishi certainly favors men much more in his manga, I don't think he is delibertly sexist.

In part 1, the female developement was pitaful, but not sexist. Sakura and Ino were perfect examples of young teenage girls. Seriously, best friends who started to hate each other because of a guy, that they obsessed over because of his good looks. Real Life girls obsess over Sasuke, a fictional character, so Kishi wasn't off there.

Anko was shown as a sadistic female who came off as scary. Guess what, she's a fucking shinobi who was trained by Orochimaru, the King of nastyness and killing shit. If she was a guy, she would have been no different.

Kurenai wasn't shown to be anything but a good shinobi, who got her ass kicked, just like Kakashi did, against Itachi. She had a relationship with another minor character who had to die only to develope Shikamaru, who is the most important of the Konoha 11 aside from Naruto and Sakura.

Hinata was kind of shitty, then again if we look at her background, upbringing, and past tramatic events of being kidnapped, it's no wonder why she was like that. Later on she gets over her fears, confesses her love and nearly dies, but what are you gonna do.

Of course there is Tsuande, who also has a tragic past. Her big boobs, again, is more comedic than sexual. Granted, people see her as a sex object, but she doesn't act like one or dress like one. In fact, she acts like the leader she is who has a drinking problem. Kishi didn't have to give her big boobs no, but its Shounen and it happens. He didn't have to make Sasuke great looking but he did. Attractive characters are a plus for a manga, I personally don't like looking at ugly people. She's always acted strong, and is a good fighter and hero who saved nearly everyone in her village.

In part 2, some of our female characters are developed more, and show us somewhat that Kishi was ready to develope them.

As many have pointed out, Chiyo was one of the most badass ninja in the entire manga. She was old and crazy, but still a powerful woman,

Sakura became a badass, and is now taking matters into her own hands. Yes she crys about Naruto and Sasuke, but hey, she loves them like brothers/boyfriends, so it's understandable, it would seem they are two people she cares for most.

Temari, she gets more screen time than some of the Konoha 11, and shes a fucking badass girl. Powerful, smart and capable, she is a model for all female shinobi.

The Mizukage is certainly sterotypical, but again, we don't know much about her to pass judgement i think. Samui, seems like a capable shinobi to me, only knock on her is she has big boobs, big woop some girls have big breasts, shes only like the third character to actually have big breasts, its not like Kishi is pulling a Kubo and makes nearly ever girl have DD's.

And again, one of the biggest themes of this manga is "Brotherly Love". Naruto and Sasuske, Kakashi and Obito, Sasuke and Itachi, Jiraiya and Orochimaru, Nagato and Yahiko. Not much room for female developement in a manga about the bonds between young men.

[Kusachu]

@ LMN: I have to say that I have been eagerly awaiting what you had to say in this department because you are one of the most consistent insightful posters here IMHO, and I am not disappointed. So thank you very much for articulating so well. There must be some cases where you and I definitely disagree, but this is not one of them at all. I look forward to hearing more from you should you feel so compelled.

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Although I do agree that Kishi certainly favors men much more in his manga, I don't think he is delibertly sexist.

In part 1, the female developement was pitaful, but not sexist. Sakura and Ino were perfect examples of young teenage girls. Seriously, best friends who started to hate each other because of a guy, that they obsessed over because of his good looks. Real Life girls obsess over Sasuke, a fictional character, so Kishi wasn't off there.

I have to stop you right there and ask ARE YOU FOR REAL?!? Do you really think that?? Because if you do then I see clearly why you think he is not sexist. I assure you that here in the real world all girls do not act exactly like that. Fake reality TV girls might act like that, and MAYBE some girls might act like that, but certainly not ALL girls by any stretch of the imagination. If you would have said Japanese girls then I have no basis for comparison, but implying that they were EVER perfect examples of girls frankly disturbs me.

[Delbi]

I have to stop you right there and ask ARE YOU FOR REAL?!? Do you really think that?? Because if you do then I see clearly why you think he is not sexist. I assure you that here in the real world all girls do not act exactly like that. Fake reality TV girls might act like that, and MAYBE some girls might act like that, but certainly not ALL girls by any stretch of the imagination. If you would have said Japanese girls then I have no basis for comparison, but implying that they were EVER perfect examples of girls frankly disturbs me.

Just because you, or people you associate with don't act like that, doesn't mean millions of girls don't.

Look at all the girls obssessed with people like the Jonas brothers and the fags from Twilight and tell me I'm wrong. Crappy music and movies wouldn't do so well if not for the millions of fan girls who love them.

Growing up, all of the girls I were friends with acted that way, and just like Ino and Sakura, they grew out of it.

And Japanese fan-girls are fucking insane, it's a documented fact.