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Thread: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

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    Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    This fight would be really interesting...as everyone can imagine...
    There's an interesting point tought.....Shunsui game is really bad news against Byakuya cause basically he can't avoid to be hit/slightly scratched and his power would automatically enhance that damage(same reason why Kubo didn't let STark use 1000ceros or the wolves against him....)......what do u guys think???

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    I think kyoraku would ultimately win but not without some trouble. Byakuya might be much younger than kyoraku but he is still a fairly smart guy with a number of skills who might see through a few games.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I think kyoraku would ultimately win but not without some trouble. Byakuya might be much younger than kyoraku but he is still a fairly smart guy with a number of skills who might see through a few games.
    yea i agree Byakuya won't be neccessarly "easy" to beat but i doubt Shunsui will have to much trouble beating him.
    he IS a elder Captain for a reason and Yammamotto DID know wut he was talking about when he said that he and Ukitake or better then old AND new.
    bottom line is
    if were to go of databooks Shunsui wins
    if we were to go off of Yammamotto Shunsui wins
    and if we were to go of the fact that he is 1 of the oldest Captains and by pure hype alone has been implied to be a top tier character than still Shunsui wins.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    This fight would be really interesting...as everyone can imagine...
    There's an interesting point tought.....Shunsui game is really bad news against Byakuya cause basically he can't avoid to be hit/slightly scratched and his power would automatically enhance that damage(same reason why Kubo didn't let STark use 1000ceros or the wolves against him....)......what do u guys think???
    well if i'm not mistaken Shunsui said once your cought in the game you HAVE to play by the rules.
    if the rules say that no special attacks "Starks wolves and ceros guns" or allowed then thats the reason why they were gone.
    i think Shunsui's game require's both the fighters to fight eachother without relying on outside powers other then swords wich is why Starks guns and wolves were gone.
    i believe its just all according to the rules and if thats the case then Byakuya's rose petals might also be void and thus would further serve in Byakuya's defeat
    Last edited by BaddAzzKenpachi74; January 09, 2010 at 04:59 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Shunsui would have a difficult battle, harder than most people think but he would win in the end without his life being in danger...I think Kyoraku's shikai negates the opponents powers and you are forced into a sword battle with him and cant use your shikai/bankai ability, so Senbonzakura thousand blades or swords would not be of any use, else he would win easily because 1 slash does extreme damage, imagine if Byakuya uses Senkei Senbonzakura Kageyoshi and sends all 1000 swords at him at once...a couple slashes would kill him...So i think it nullifies the opponents powers, so Senbonzakura would be useless ( y Starrk didnt use the wolves) and it would come down to a 1 v 1 swordfight, which Shunsui would win..

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    The problem is that there is no rule saying that u can't use other attacks beside swords.....that's a baseless assumption....
    The rules are attacking the color,attack from below/above and such.....
    ex.
    Takaoni rules is that who ever attacks from above wins....Stark still could use ceros and such....

    It would be even strange if it nullifies the opponents powers,if that was the case why not attack Aizen and nullify KS?why couldn't he nullify Old Yama's fire?It seems really strange to me and more of a plot device to close the fight....
    Last edited by Yans86; January 09, 2010 at 07:33 AM.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    The problem is that there is no rule saying that u can't use other attacks beside swords.....that's a baseless assumption....
    The rules are attacking the color,attack from below/above and such.....
    ex.
    In color game, the rules state you can only cut the relevant color. If you will cut something, you have to use a blade. And the damage depends on the color you/your opponent picked, the strength of the attack is irrelevant.

    For example, if Shunsui fought Barragan, Barragan would be forced to fight using his axe because his respira ability would be negated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    Takaoni rules is that who ever attacks from above wins....Stark still could use ceros and such....
    But they weren't playing games at that time because the sword was not in the mood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    It would be even strange if it nullifies the opponents powers,if that was the case why not attack Aizen and nullify KS?why couldn't he nullify Old Yama's fire?It seems really strange to me and more of a plot device to close the fight....
    We didn't see Yamamoto vs Shunsui & Ukitake fight, perhaps Shunsui's shikai negated some fire based attacks of RJ.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    That's not true actually....
    Stark asked him why he didn't use such a powerful attack that let him to hide in the shadow and Shunsui answered that his sword wasn't in the mood....KAGEONI (that is the attack)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/05/
    Then he explain how it works...
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/06/
    as u see,the choices of the games are random....some chapter before they were playing Takaoni(whoever is higher wins),and u see it on the lower panel on the right...
    Shunsui say it himself,adding that is annoying to be jerked like this from his sword...

    If Shunsui sword negated the fire then we wouldn't see it on the stage....

    Another little point,Stark used the swords before the color games started,so it wasn't the game that nullified his power,it was the author.....

    If we want to give a possible logical explanation,I would say that after the surprise attack that pierced him he hadn't enough power left or time to pull out his guns/wolves...

    ON TOPIC:
    Byakuya's release is not even kido based,so swords like his,Gin's,Ikkaku and melee type,in the "case" that his power nullify kido-based/energy attacks,they wouldn't be aftected or it would end that all the shikai's power of every type would have their power nullified.
    Last edited by Yans86; January 09, 2010 at 09:32 AM.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    That's not true actually....
    Stark asked him why he didn't use such a powerful attack that let him to hide in the shadow and Shunsui answered that his sword wasn't in the mood....KAGEONI (that is the attack)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/05/
    Then he explain how it works...
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/06/
    as u see,the choices of the games are random....some chapter before they were playing Takaoni(whoever is higher wins),and u see it on the lower panel on the right...
    Shunsui say it himself,adding that is annoying to be jerked like this from his sword...
    I don't think Shunsui was talking about Kageoni in particular, they weren't playing any games at all because Shunsui's sword wasn't in the mood and refusing to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    If Shunsui sword negated the fire then we wouldn't see it on the stage....
    I mean Shunsui might be immune to damages that could come from fire based attacks (if they were playing Irooni).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    Another little point,Stark used the swords before the color games started,so it wasn't the game that nullified his power,it was the author.....
    Perhaps every game requires the use of swords (and similar weapons). So once they started to play, Stark's only option was to use a sword.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    ON TOPIC:
    Byakuya's release is not even kido based,so swords like his,Gin's,Ikkaku and melee type,in the "case" that his power nullify kido-based/energy attacks,they wouldn't be aftected or it would end that all the shikai's power of every type would have their power nullified.
    I don't think every ability of any shikai/bankai is nullified. For example, IMO Gin can extend his sword to cut Shunsui in the color game. Byakuya's tiny blades can actually attack Shunsui and put him at a disadvantage. (but still they can only do as much damage as the rules of the game state) I believe Shunsui's shikai only nullifies kido/energy/elemental abilities like wolves, respira, Yamamoto's nadegiri, etc.

    So in case of Byakuya, I think Shunsui would actually need his bankai to defeat him. It would be a relatively easy victory for Shunsui though.
    Last edited by Gran Maestro; January 09, 2010 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Shunsui rapestomps Byakuya and cut his head for souvenir.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Busho Koma it's a spinning game famous in japan....(someone explained it very well thoght I don't have the link)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/362/08/
    Takaoni...whoever is higher wins
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/362/09/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/06/
    Down / right panel...u see on the back that after using busho koma he attacked from above and the sword decided for the attack Takaoni...
    More clear then this...

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/374/06/ He specifically explains how his sword works,and how Takaoni and Kageoni works.

    Stark:...you mean you can hide in the shadows?you've been HOLDING BACK AN ATTACK LILE that?
    Shunsui:KAGEONI....I wasn't holding back,my sword just wasn't in the mood...
    and he keep explaining finisahing..."it's very selfish" referred to his sword....

    Basically his sword decide according to his mood the game to play,Shunsui says it and the two player has to do damage according to that rule....

    It's easy to understand and the words are totally clear...

    IMO,the choice of the game is not totally random,I think that his sword choose the game according to the position of the opponent and the best spot to attack him...

    Observe:

    _Busho Koma was used to cover and deceive Stark cause till that moment Shunsui couldn't find any opening and Stark had a moment of distraction...(before he was really focused)
    NOTE:till that moment Katen Kyoukotsu didn't have any clue of what Stark's ability/weak point/possible spot would have been needed to attack him...

    _after Busho Koma that covered Stark's sight and Shunsui moving above,his sword gave him the best possible attack.A swing from up to belove+weight/gravity.This enhanced with Takaoni would have finished the fight....that's why the sword choose Takaoni...

    _after that we know how Shunsui faked and used Soifon's tactic....(mentioned while talking with Omaeda)....was him in the black ops or assassination squad?we don't know....but I say this cause both him and Soifon have 1-2 hit ko moves...

    The moment Stark was talking with the vizard and stepped on the ground was distracted,so KK choose Kageoni(whoever steps ona shadow loose)....
    Again KK choose a weak spot cause no one would expect an attack from the ground from a supposly beaten opponent...
    NOTE:u can add that seeing the light direction and the projection of the light,the shadow was also behind him so the surprise attack to fro the grounds spot was also enhanced by this...(that's why also Rose and Love were surprised....I guess that if he simply attacked from behind KK knew already that Stark would have been able to defend sensing the killer intent)

    After that Stark was heavily injured and he lost the speed,the energy and the focus to counterattack Shunsui....(basicallu the attack changed the flow of the battle....it happens in every sport for ex.)


    After that,Stark retreated and as we know the force u put in attack while moving in the opposite direction is far weaker...using the moment he was pulling out the sword,the best attack would have been injure that same spot it was closer and impossible to guard...
    2possible explanation we can give here:either Stark didn't have enough energy to pull out his wolves/guns ceros....either their distance was to close to use such a counter and well block swords attack ....

    Last two important moves(with the premise that Stark understood the game and countered back):
    _Stark pulled out the left sword cause his right arm was injured.
    _The attack was blocked (that arm was still strong)
    _Stark attack with his injured arm
    _Shunsui "easily" dodge obviously adding a deceiving/checkmate move:throw his WHITE cloak up while move behind(it's like faking a straight to give a good uppercut)...
    _Shunsui get inside Stark's guard,totally wearing black......says black(cause totally wearing it "mOST DAMAGE TO BOTH HIM AND STARK")
    Shunui wins!

    Oh well,I could have opened a Katen Kyokotsu explanation thread :-P

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    untill now shunsui has only shown his shikai Koz his bankai is very very strong for to be used now. even his shikai isn't completely revealing, he just show a part of kageoni's abilities, and he says that there's alot of game that we could play.
    So shunsui in shikai would have a great battle against byakuya in bankai and shunsui'll win but if kyoraku is in bankai form who should be very very powerful i think that byakuya have no chance.

    if he was not lazy against stark he we was able to defeat him in a few time.
    and i think that after Yama The most stronger is Aizen after the 03 students of genryusai whom bankai and technics are mada secrets, among of them I think that shinsui is the more strong so he's 3rd in captain's rank.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    @ Yans86:

    Why did you bother to explain the games, this is not the point.

    The point is Shunsui was trying to play games but he failed because the sword was not in the mood. Do you say KK was not in the mood to play Kageoni but it was in the mood to play Takaoni? Sorry, it doesn't make sense to me.

    We don't know yet whether Shunsui or the zanpakuto chooses the game but I believe it's Shunsui who chooses the game which will give him the biggest advantage.

    And once again: If Stark lost the energy/speed after Shunsui's first strike, how did he manage to hurt Shunsui in the color game? He shouldn't be able to land a hit with his reduced speed at all. If Shunsui didn't hurt him and Stark did send the wolves, what do you think would happen, the same thing that happened to Rose and Love? No, I don't think so, what's the point of Shunsui's zanpakuto then?

    Shunsui: Let's play a game.

    Stark: Keep your game to yourself and eat these wolves.

    Shunsui: Ouch.

    Bottomline is Shunsui's games forced Stark to use his sword, it was his only option to do damage to Shunsui. Shunsui tried to play games throughout the fight but he failed because the sword was not in the mood. Once the sword got in the mood, they started to play games and Stark was forced to obey Shunsui's rules.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Of course we don't know how many games he has,they can be even infinite if Kubo wants.....and well,he would have gone bankai if Ukitake didn't stop him,which I consider a smart move cause showing his power beforehanded would have given a possibility to Aizen and co to spot the weak point of his most powerful weapon/technique.
    Shunsui wasn't lazy at all against STark ....it's the lazy nature of his character,enhanced in his sword power(deciding the game to act when it feels like it) and mixed with his TACTICIAN ABILITY(I said it in other post that he is the best tactician....not explaining immediately his swords power,play possum,butting in other fight cause this is war....things that other idiots character doesn't do cough Shinji cough Ichigo couch ....couch...ecc...!!)...enahnced in his sword ability to chooce the best game "1-hit ko" according to the best spot/chance/directioon to attack the opponent......as I have explained in the previous post.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Gran Maestro View Post
    @ Yans86:

    Why did you bother to explain the games, this is not the point.

    The point is Shunsui was trying to play games but he failed because the sword was not in the mood. Do you say KK was not in the mood to play Kageoni but it was in the mood to play Takaoni? Sorry, it doesn't make sense to me.

    We don't know yet whether Shunsui or the zanpakuto chooses the game but I believe it's Shunsui who chooses the game which will give him the biggest advantage.

    And once again: If Stark lost the energy/speed after Shunsui's first strike, how did he manage to hurt Shunsui in the color game? He shouldn't be able to land a hit with his reduced speed at all. If Shunsui didn't hurt him and Stark did send the wolves, what do you think would happen, the same thing that happened to Rose and Love? No, I don't think so, what's the point of Shunsui's zanpakuto then?

    Shunsui: Let's play a game.

    Stark: Keep your game to yourself and eat these wolves.

    Shunsui: Ouch.

    Bottomline is Shunsui's games forced Stark to use his sword, it was his only option to do damage to Shunsui. Shunsui tried to play games throughout the fight but he failed because the sword was not in the mood. Once the sword got in the mood, they started to play games and Stark was forced to obey Shunsui's rules.
    So Takaoni and Busho Koma were random words shout in the dark???The images of Takaoni while explaining it and referrring to the previous attack were random things with no meanings?
    So their words are totally mistranslated?
    So SHunsui saying that his sword choose the game is just blabbling?
    How many injured/heavily injured opponent did we see land a good a hit even if underdog???There's a long list u know....
    ..


    Using KK is like fighting in a tag team were both the player have to help each others to spot /create the best situation to attack,according to the surrounding and the enemy personality/style of combat...
    BUSHO KOMAcreen deceiving a distracted opponent
    TAKAONI:attack an opponent from a blind spot(swing up/above which is thestrongest swing cause u put strenght on it)
    KAGEONI:attack from below and in this case from behind(who would expect that?even in real fight they r the worst to spot and defend against...overall if u r facing other opponents)
    IROONI:Close quarter combat (like in boxing and other martial arts,if u get inside the guard it's easier to land heavy blows,we all know it....well,get a counter would be really bad,did u ever take one?but well,it's an high stake game with life on the line...)
    Last edited by Yans86; January 09, 2010 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    So Takaoni and Busho Koma were random words shout in the dark???The images of Takaoni while explaining it and referrring to the previous attack were random things with no meanings?
    So their words are totally mistranslated?
    Shunsui tried to play Takaoni and Busho Koma but he failed, it didn't work. Shunsui never said the sword chooses the games, he said the sword makes the rules. It's possible that Shunsui chooses the game, and he and his opponent play by these rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yans86 View Post
    So SHunsui saying that his sword choose the game is just blabbling?
    How many injured/heavily injured opponent did we see land a good a hit even if underdog???There's a long list u know....
    ..
    Stark was so heavily injured that he couldn't use the wolves, but he wasn't injured enough to exhange blows and land a good hit on Shunsui? I ask you once again: What would happen if Stark sent his wolves to Shunsui while they were playing the game? What did Shunsui mean when he said "to play by the rules"? Why do you think Stark can ignore the rules? You've just made KK the most useless zanpakuto ever.

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    Re: Kyouraku Shunsui VS Kuchiki Byakuya

    Of course he failed cause Stark was focused and didn't took any hits....his power is not infallible....even KS isn't...
    OK....hisagi was heavily injured after Tousen putting on his mask,and still he managed to outmaneuver him....so????!!!
    About the wolves I explained it before just read the post...
    Where did I say that STark can ignore the rules?
    _if u can win only attacking from above,that's the only way to win...
    _if u have to attack a specifical color to make more damage,that was it and that's what they did...
    That is his power,to give to a specific attack "MORE VALUE" making iit a one-hit-ko....and the sword choose it or create it throught games and Shunsui moves according to the best position/situation to attack...

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