Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/18/14 - 8/24/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32

Thread: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

  1. #1
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member maaghms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    430
    Post Thanks / Like

    Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Lately, countless posts regarding the suitability of Naruto as the main character have emerged in various places in the forum. By observing the population of such critics, it is fair to declare that there really is something erroneous with either the development of the main character, the plotline itself or both. In this discussion, I will simply assume the goals and objectives of Naruto (the main character) as given in the Manga, without questioning or debating if they are really lame or not. (The "lameness" of some of Naruto’s objectives belongs to another discussion). On the whole, Naruto’s goals and objectives can be summarized as follow:
    1. "Saving the Ninja world" or "bringing (permanent?) peace to the Ninja world."
    2. "Saving Sasuke from darkness" or "bringing Sasuke out from darkness."
    3. "Become the Hokage."
    The majority of people who have gone through secondary (or even primary) education are well aware of the difference between goals and objectives. In short, goals are general intentions and they are intangible whereas objectives are measurable and they are precise. Every good writer should make the objectives of the main character (the protagonist) especially clear. Without defining clear objectives for the main character, the audience would not be able to identify with the said main character and they would begin to lose interest in the character (as is happening with this Manga recently). The first "objective" of Naruto is way too general to be called an "objective". Let us, however, leave it as it is since I don’t want to start bashing it. The last objective is an example of a superb objective for Naruto. As much as I hate it, I am also willing to accept Naruto’s second objective. Are those three "objectives" inter-related? Well, sort of.

    The first "objective" requires the modification of the backbone of the entire Ninja system. In whichever form Kishi might want to put it, the Ninja system as portrayed in the Manga embodies concepts of lawlessness and injustice. It is a world of survival of the fittest which is nowadays accepted to be the mentality of (non-human) animals which have much lower brain function than humans. Ninjas are supposed to be utilized in times of war and hostilities. One thing I do not like about the Manga is that Kishi is too fond of establishing things which contradicts the evidence given in many places. Examples include: "Naruto has become really stronger after training with Jiraiya", "Naruto has surpassed XX people." Anyways, let us go back to the topic at hand.

    Fulfilling the first objective of Naruto is very straightforward. The solution is to simply abolish the Ninja system and establish democracy and proper justice systems. I have no idea why it has to be so complicated a problem such that even Minato and Jiraiya could not think of the answers. Again, this is due to Kishi’s reasoning that even adults such as Jiraiya are not able to solve (at least mentally) such simple problems.

    After Naruto’s first objective has been completed, Ninjas will no longer be needed owing to the fact that there are 4 main roles/functions of Ninjas as accepted by most people. Those are:
    1. Espionage
    2. Sabotage
    3. Assassination
    4. Countermeasures
    The very concept of Ninja, no, I take that back, the very concept of Naruto being a Ninja contradicts his first objective. There are no good Ninjas and bad Ninjas. Ninjas are expected to do whatever they are instructed by their higher superiors when they are hired or otherwise. Consequently, Orachimaru’s definition of a Ninja is more appripriate than Jiraiya’s. Come on, Jiraiya! The definition of Shinobi (Ninja) comes from the Japanese word Shinobu which means "to conceal oneself". Accordingly, in more comprehensive terms, a Shinobi is a person who accomplishes tasks given to him/her by means of concealment. What’s with all those rubbish definitions such as "a Ninja is the one who endures and never gives up"? Are we writing about Samurai or Ninja here? For Naruto to accomplish the first objective, the answer is pretty simple. He has to grow more brain tissue, gain political power and abolish the Ninja system and become a Sumarai or whatever.

    The second objective of Naruto, which is to save Sasuke from darkness, is related to the first objective in the sense that the Ninja system (as depicted in the Manga) is accountable and is to be blamed for the hatred and pain which are the main motivators for Sasuke. But the question is this: "which one should come first: Naruto’s first objective or second objective?" Clearly, as of now, Naruto has ignorantly selected to go after the second objective, i.e. attempting to save Sasuke from darkness, without even sparing a single thought for the first objective. For me, personally, Naruto is clearly underperforming and procrastinating despite all his stupid and childish cries of "No, I will never give up!" Incidentally, what is he going to do when he faces Sasuke? How is he going to bring Sasuke back to light from darkness? Is it through the use of force? Stop dreaming! Even torture cannot change a person’s beliefs or hatred. Then, is it by talking sense to him? Look Kishi. What are we playing here? Even Prophets of God do not have the ability to convert every single person. So what makes you think Naruto can just convert people simply by talking with that person? This is getting really stupid. To solve Sasuke’s problem which is a problem of hatred and injustice, the roots of the problems must be analyzed and tackled. Psychologists mention that the root of any cause for anger and revenge is injustice which in turn is promoted by the Ninja system. Thus, there is no choice for Naruto except to endeavor to accomplish the first objective before the second one. Right now, from the end of Part I to recent chapters, all Naruto has been doing is totally pointless and is without any logic.

    The main resentment people feel towards Naruto as of late is not really the fact that Naruto wants to save Sasuke but it is about why Naruto is mindlessly chasing after Sasuke. Unconsciously chasing after Sasuke is the worst and the most unintelligent strategy being undertaken by Naruto in order to bring Sasuke out from darkness. As for the third objective, I don’t really have anything to mention. I think that it is a valid objective which has been partially fulfilled.
    Last edited by maaghms; January 15, 2010 at 01:23 AM.

  2. Thanks 15 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #2
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    13,707
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Nice analysis...good read...agree with everything U said...
    Quote Quote:
    For me, personally, Naruto is clearly underperforming and procrastinating despite all his stupid and childish cries of "No, I will never give up!" Incidentally, what is he going to do when he faces Sasuke? How is he going to bring Sasuke back to light from darkness? Is it through the use of force? Stop dreaming! Even torture cannot change a person’s beliefs or hatred. Then, is it by talking sense to him?
    I think this part will come after he wakes up, Kakashi returns...first as a jinchuuriki he/Kishi should establish his role in the war...I would like to come that first...and after that the decision concerning Sasuke, maybe some details on how he plans to stop him...after we go back to Konoha we should get these answers...at least I hope so


    Also the terms of ninja in the real world suits UR explanation...it was stated several times that in Naruto the definition of shinobi is similar to the definition of samurai in the real world...there are many stuff related to bushido(way of the warrior)...
    Kishi combined the terms probably in order to be able to create a genuine hero type or villains...this should be taken into consideration when talking about shinobi in naruto
    Last edited by benelori; January 15, 2010 at 09:22 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  4. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #3
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fighting for the Living
    Country
    The Wall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,819
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Quote Originally Posted by maaghms View Post
    Fulfilling the first objective of Naruto is very straightforward. The solution is to simply abolish the Ninja system and establish democracy and proper justice systems. I have no idea why it has to be so complicated a problem such that even Minato and Jiraiya could not think of the answers. Again, this is due to Kishi’s reasoning that even adults such as Jiraiya are not able to solve (at least mentally) such simple problems.
    I loved, truly loved and agree with everything you said, but I have to disagree with the above part.

    "Abolishing" the ninja system, to me given the way the manga and it's characters are, is next near impossible.

    Firstly, the ninja system supports the needs of thousands of people by supplying them with jobs. War and battle is what they know, taking that away from them will not only hurt them in a economic way, but in a mental and emotional way. You can't simply "turn off" being a killer, this is a problem many soldiers today have.

    Secondly, you have thousands if not millions of people who depend and use these ninja's. Protection, via escorts and guards is something people will always need in Nartuo's world. Things such as assassinations, espionage missions, and missions set to steal items will also be wanted by people forever.

    Then, we also have to remeber the ninja system is a military system. I don't think the Daiymo's would be too pleased if one day their entire military simply ceased to exist.

    We also have to think of the ninja's themselves wanting to let go of the power they hold in the world. Regular ninja's aren't just going to lay down and watch their way of lfe be destroyed, and I don't think any Kage would just let their power slip away.

    Also, look at our world and see what has to be done to establish democracy and proper justice systems. Wars usually have to be fought, and thousands if not millions of people have to die. That would be kind of counter-productive if what Naruto is looking for is peace. And this is assuming Democracy is even the proper form of government to instill in the world.

    The fact of the matter is, Jiraiya and Minato couldn't figure out what to do because the solution is not something tangible in a sense were it's clear cut. Naruto literally has to change millions of people's ways of thinking. He isn't trying to just change one country, he's trying to change the entire ninja Nation. Keep in mind, Jiraiya and Minato wanted to find a peaceful solution, not something like Pain tried to do.
    Last edited by Delbi; January 15, 2010 at 06:29 PM.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  6. Thanks 7 Member(s) thanked this post
  7. #4
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dhaka
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    wow maaghms u did put some serious thoughts to this Manga after all.

    its great to know that u also think that the problem with sasuke is by far more difficult than what it seems and it requires more effort.

    however i think that u r missing one crucial point that is we are not following naruto the hero-already.As u said while the goal of saving sasuke is worth it(thanks for this),naruto has been approaching this unwisely.but the thing is that kishi clearly wanted to bash this thing into heads of naruto and everyone that reads this manga.if naruto didn't keep failing would we have realized the intricacies,would we have even give a thought about 'root'?

    naruto has chased sasuke blindly till the pain arc.after that he felt he could understand finally and himself said that his previous efforts were meaningless(in other words kishi made him say that which proves that he intended his readers to understand the meaninglessness of this,so portrayed that previously),but that doesn't mean he found a way to deal with vengeance.then he was confused about sasuke joining akatsuki,which was cleared by madara.then he decided he needs to meet and see what sasuke really has become (he was finally prepared to let the image of old sasuke shed from his mind).then came sakura and gaara and sai,and all they said basically was to follow the traditional way of rooting out enemies and that sasuke was already like that.to accept that is to give up on naruto's ideal of pacifism and nindo.

    what i mean that it was essential to let naruto fail unwisely to make him and readers realize the gravity and still not give up on sasuke(and pacifism thereby).but what way to follow from now on is something that i can't think of.thanks to the amount of time and effort put into this by kishi,we can't think of a proper solution just like naruto can't.

    about establishing democracy for fulfilling the 1st goal,konoha is already democratic.they vote kage(=president),he has opposition(roots),there are advisors(ministers).

    democracy isn't really a solution-to-all.because there is no solution-to-all.naruto and jiraya and minato chased an unsolvable problem.

    about main character having to have a defined objective,i disagree.its a very shonen-esque idea.that is merely one way of developing a main character and a way that is the simplest one.letting ur main character grow through mistakes and hardships and finding a definite goal/object/solution is a better device.

  8. #5
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,466
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Nice post!
    Here's what I have to say on the matter...

    First objective :
    In my opinion, changing the ninja way doesn't mean to have a democracy and a unification under a king, or something like that.

    I think that the best and only way this could be achieve his by an alliance just like the one we saw a few chapters ago.

    A concil of 5-6 people taking decision for the entire world. That's the only way it would work. The other country would not agree to bow under only one man, unless he his really charismatic...

    Can Naruto be that man? The one that will lead the 5 countries?
    Possible, but not right now.

    Second objective :
    Naruto is the only one that can bring back Sasuke into light.
    I understand what you mean by saying that he won't be able to convince him by torture or by simply talking with him, but the fact is that Naruto has already a huge influence over Sasuke.

    Sasuke loved his family, and he lost it.
    After that, he decided to hate everybody and to get not attach because he didn't want to lose it again.
    But, too late, he was already attached to two people, Sakura and Naruto.

    So, even if he doesn't like it, he has a bond with them, one that even himself can't ignore. And it's strong enough, so that he prefer to kill them (because he can't ignore them), and cut that bond, so that he doesn't get influenced by them.

    So, Naruto CAN convince Sasuke, but it's not going to be easy.
    Just like you, I think that Objetive 1 and 2 goes hand-in-hand.

    If Naruto manages to change the Ninja way, he might be able to convince Sasuke that kiling is NOT the right thing to do right now.
    Rather than vengeance, he should seek to make sure that those things will not happen again in the next generation... something like that.

    Third objective :
    This is one is really simple.
    Naruto said it himself : «He won't be Hokage until he save Sasuke.»

    Even if the village would ask him, he would refuse.

    ----

    So, my guess is that he must change the ninja system while chasing Sasuke (he already started by implenting the idea in Raikage's head), convince Sasuke that things can change, and that he should stop his revenge plan, and then, in the end, be declared either Hokage (if it's a concil system), or Great Kage (if it's one presiding over the 5 countries).
    Last edited by THM Nindo; January 15, 2010 at 05:41 PM.


    True love will conquer everything
    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
    ___________________

    Jiraiya's timeline : here
    Zetsu, the strongest villain of Akatsuki : here

  9. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  10. #6
    Last Breath 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Country
    Norway
    Posts
    22,006
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Excellent, truly excellent post. Though I agree with Delbi that your solution for objective 1 is to simple. Most of what I wanted to say has already been covered, so I'll keep it short and give a few thoughts of my own. Scratch that, you know it won't be short with me.

    Objective 1
    This one is really complicated in my eyes. I don't really see how Naruto is gonna change the views of the entire world unless the manga would go on for another 500 chapters. He's used a long time to convince Konoha, and that's his hometown, not some foreign country. It's true that Konoha did hate him, or most did. But it's still his home, and people there got easier influenced because of his constant actions aswell as the ones he already influenced influencing the disbelievers. To convert the whole world Naruto would have to do something amazing for the whole world several times, and gain massive popularity, and still then it wouldn't be easy. I mean take Obama for example, he's damn popular in other nations. In Norway where I live he's damn popular, and he's in the news ALL the time. Sometimes it's like we like and support him more than our own prime minister, which is rather ridiculous when you think about it. But still if Obama just asked us to merge with the U.S and become a "state" it would never happen. Now this isn't exactly the same thing as the situation in the ninja world, but it is comparable to some extent.

    My point is that Naruto would have to influence the world population constantly over a longer period of time and gain massive popularity and preaches around the world. People would have to spread the message and bla bla bla, still then it would not happen. People just wouldn't support it unless they got touched in a personal way. People would be like "yeah he's great, but I still don't support him". Also looking at what it looks like Kishi will go with, it looks like Naruto will save the world in some form, so what, do we expect him to simply gain the thumbs up from the whole world for saving them? Sure... This is a damn complicated issue, and the only way I see it happening is if Naruto converts all the Kages like he has converted Gaara, and uses the other Kages to force their people, which would mean that the world leaders would work as supreme dictators. Honestly I got no clue how on earth Kishi is gonna make Naruto accomplish this objective. I simply don't believe it's possible. To bring peace (permanent) to the world, or the whole world in general, he would have to convert EVERYONE, not only the countries, but the rogues, the thugs, the criminals, EVERYONE. Bad things will always happen, and as long as ninjas remain killing and bad things will never stop happening. Organizations like Akatsuki (maybe not as powerful) will always rise again, and the peace will be threatened. It's simply not possible to achieve the ultimate peace in a world where humans reside. We are hungry by nature, we always want more, we are greedy, we look out for our own interests. So I really don't know how he'll do this in a plausible way.

    Objective 2
    I think this one is pretty obvious. Naruto intends to end the curse of bad blood between the descendants of Rikudou's sons, not intentionally, but that is what he'll do. By doing so he'll rid the world of the most hateful curse in the world, or so Kishi claims. But this is only a Konoha-centric problem as it's origin comes from Konoha. What about the other bad people in the world? Surely there can't be no other evil badass people in the world. They can't be exclusive to Akatsuki, if they are then the world is severly unrealistic. But I don't really want to go in depth on this, it's such a broken objective. It will obviously be solved, and I think Naruto is heading towards the conclusion even if with turtle like speed.

    Objective 3
    Easy one. Naruto is basically there already. It was a rather simple goal. Become powerful -check, protect Konoha-check, gain popularity-check. People are even already talking about Naruto becoming Hokage. He's basically there. It was also a pretty good objective which was plausible and interesting. Sadly it's severly under-focused.
    Last edited by 3c; January 15, 2010 at 06:21 PM.
    Don't. Be. A. Steph.

  11. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  12. #7
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,466
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Quote Originally Posted by 3cmm View Post
    Objective 1
    This one is really complicated in my eyes. I don't really see how Naruto is gonna change the views of the entire world unless the manga would go on for another 500 chapters. He's used a long time to convince Konoha, and that's his hometown, not some foreign country. It's true that Konoha did hate him, or most did. But it's still his home, and people there got easier influenced because of his constant actions aswell as the ones he already influenced influencing the disbelievers. To convert the whole world Naruto would have to do something amazing for the whole world several times, and gain massive popularity, and still then it wouldn't be easy. I mean take Obama for example, he's damn popular in other nations. In Norway where I live he's damn popular, and he's in the news ALL the time. Sometimes it's like we like and support him more than our own prime minister, which is rather ridiculous when you think about it. But still if Obama just asked us to merge with the U.S and become a "state" it would never happen. Now this isn't exactly the same thing as the situation in the ninja world, but it is comparable to some extent.

    My point is that Naruto would have to influence the world population constantly over a longer period of time and gain massive popularity and preaches around the world. People would have to spread the message and bla bla bla, still then it would not happen. People just wouldn't support it unless they got touched in a personal way. People would be like "yeah he's great, but I still don't support him". Also looking at what it looks like Kishi will go with, it looks like Naruto will save the world in some form, so what, do we expect him to simply gain the thumbs up from the whole world for saving them? Sure... This is a damn complicated issue, and the only way I see it happening is if Naruto converts all the Kages like he has converted Gaara, and uses the other Kages to force their people, which would mean that the world leaders would work as supreme dictators. Honestly I got no clue how on earth Kishi is gonna make Naruto accomplish this objective. I simply don't believe it's possible. To bring peace (permanent) to the world, or the whole world in general, he would have to convert EVERYONE, not only the countries, but the rogues, the thugs, the criminals, EVERYONE. Bad things will always happen, and as long as ninjas remain killing and bad things will never stop happening. Organizations like Akatsuki (maybe not as powerful) will always rise again, and the peace will be threatened. It's simply not possible to achieve the ultimate peace in a world where humans reside. We are hungry by nature, we always want more, we are greedy, we look out for our own interests. So I really don't know how he'll do this in a plausible way.
    I don' think Naruto is that far of convincing everyone actually...

    Konoha is already convinced (except Danzou), and he already got the Sand country convinced through Gaara.
    That's already 2/5.

    And we can already see that the idea was implented in Raikage's head (by Naruto pleading), and in Tsuchikage (by Gaara).
    And honestly, I think that Mizukage will be the easiest of the 3 remaining to convince.

    I think, all of them, will agree that peace is the goal, and that everyone will want to stop warring against each other.

    As I said, the question is : If it doesn't work like it was before, how will it work from now on?

    I say a concil of 5 (or 6 if we include the Iron country) is the perfect plan. We already know that it's working.
    But, as they themselve said before, even through an alliance, they need someone to take the decision...

    So, I think that in the end, it will be a concil with either a rotating seat (like UNO), or with a presiding person (Naruto?)

    Quote Quote:
    Objective 2
    I think this one is pretty obvious. Naruto intends to end the curse of bad blood between the descendants of Rikudou's sons, not intentionally, but that is what he'll do. By doing so he'll rid the world of the most hateful curse in the world, or so Kishi claims. But this is only a Konoha-centric problem as it's origin comes from Konoha. What about the other bad people in the world? Surely there can't be no other evil badass people in the world. They can't be exclusive to Akatsuki, if they are then the world is severly unrealistic. But I don't really want to go in depth on this, it's such a broken objective. It will obviously be solved, and I think Naruto is heading towards the conclusion even if with turtle like speed.
    Sasuke, indeed, was a Konoha problem, originally, but he became a international problem.

    The question that I'm wondering though is : Can Naruto convince the whole world that they need to work together toward peace, and himself not doing <what needs to be done> regarding Sasuke?

    I mean... the five countries want Sasuke dead...
    Naruto is trying to convince the 5 countries that they can work together to bring a permanent peace into the world...

    But, they would need to work together to defeat the bad guys (Akatsuki, and others), but that's INCLUDING Sasuke...

    If Naruto tries to convince them, but himself isn't ready to deal with Sasuke... he just won't be credible...

    Quote Quote:

    Objective 3
    Easy one. Naruto is basically there already. It was a rather simple goal. Become powerful -check, protect Konoha-check, gain popularity-check. People are even already talking about Naruto becoming Hokage. He's basically there. It was also a pretty good objective which was plausible and interesting. Sadly it's severly under-focused.
    Yeah, we all agree on this one.
    Naruto could be Hokage right now...

    Kakashi just has to say the word : <Naruto would be better> and that would be a thing done.

    I still think he needs to mature a bit (he's taking strange decision, and won't back down on his Sasuke case), but he could totally be Hokage by now.

    But, as I said before, he won't accept the title until he "saved" Sasuke...


    True love will conquer everything
    The question now is : which of those two loves, is the true one?!
    ___________________

    Jiraiya's timeline : here
    Zetsu, the strongest villain of Akatsuki : here

  13. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Askia32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bay Area
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    @ Maaghs

    Truly excellent essay. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.

    Objective 1
    I recently watched a movie called Shinobi. I must say, it was one of the best expositions that I have seen in which included "ninja" and "peace". Much like the Naruto universe, ninja were trained since little kids in the art of assassination, stealth, and precision. For practically all there lives, they have been trained in these deadly arts.

    When hearing the word "peace", many Shinobi were enraged at the idea. They knew, in a world of peace, they could never exist. The lord of the land had a similar idea, deciding that he must commit genocide through a diabolical plan to ensure peace among other reasons.

    In the Naruto universe, if anything such as peace is established, there will be no need for incredibly strong ninja. The one's who have devoted them selves to nothing but becoming stronger like Lee and Neji will have no place. Yes, there will be measly "D" and "C" rank missions like walking dogs and finding cats, but in reality, the need for ninja would simply die out. So, in my opinion, establishing peace in a ninja world is risking the existence of the ninja world. Of course there will be a need for armies, but that doesn't mean ninja's.

    Objective 2
    The save Sasuke theme is now basically the guy at a party telling the same bad joke over and over and over again. At this point, its just completely redundant. After the second find Sasuke arc at the beginning of part 2 should of been the last for awhile. At the point when Naruto finally does confront Sasuke, should be the third and last time Naruto went searching for him. Parts of the development Naruto is getting in regards to Sasuke could of been accomplished long ago, and way better with out pissing off a lot of the manga following.

    Objective 3
    Its really had for me to imagine Naruto as the Hokage now, and if his peace dreams come to fruition, there really wont be too much of a point for a Hokage either. Really, the torch will probably be passed to Konohamaru either when Naruto is chosen to be Hokage, or shortly after he becomes one. Hopefully Konohamaru won't be as much of a passive observer as his grandfather was.
    Last edited by Askia32; January 15, 2010 at 08:53 PM.
    2010 World Series Champs SF GIANTS!!!

  14. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  15. #9
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member maaghms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    430
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Thanks for all of your brilliant feedback and thoughts. I concur that I might have made the notion of "abolishing the Ninja system" too simplistic because of the inherent difference between the Ninja systems in Narutoverse and in the real life (history). If I am not mistaken, the entire Ninja structure, as shown in history, exists under a separate political power. If you like, you can visualize the entire Ninja infrastructure as one of the martial "arms" of the government or ruling party (the Yagyuu who served the Shogun) and they (the Ninjas) themselves only serve as tools. In contrast, the Ninja organization as depicted in the Naruto Manga seems to hold abundant political power as evidenced by the fact that the Daimyo and the Kage influence equal amounts of political control. Thus, abolishing the Ninja system in history would have been a simple "Abolish!" command from the Shogun whereas in the world of Naruto, as many of you rightly pointed out, it would be quite tricky.

    Regarding the fulfillment of the first objective of Naruto, i.e. bringing peace to the Ninja world, Naruto has to start with Konoha, as the saying goes: "Charity begins at home." For that to accomplish, he has to convince the Hokage, the Daimyo and higher political powers which control Konoha to bring to an end to the Ninja system slowly, steadily and systematically. I am aware that they would not be convinced if such abolishment or disarmament is likely to endanger the survival of the people in Konoha or if Konoha might become vulnerable to external threats from other Ninja villages. Thus, Naruto has to think up a way to counter that risky situation. My proposed solution would be the introduction and development of science and higher education. If the people in Konoha becomes highly educated and vastly informed, there would be growth of skills and means for trading, commerce and business, not to mention the fact that there would be many new jobs emerging (which should partially offset the loss of jobs due to the abolishment of the Ninja system).

    Additionally, the Konoha citizens would then have the technical expertise to invent advanced weapons such as guns and bombs. Obviously, those weapons would only be given to the trained and specialized defense forces in Konoha and they must be especially well educated and strictly guided to employ those weapons for self-defense purposes only. If my memory serves me right, Kishi mentioned in an interview that if there were guns and other advanced weapons in the Narutoverse, the Ninjas would cease to exist.

    Now, after a decade or so, Konoha would have become a nation flourishing with advanced education and science, would possess sophisticated weapons for self-defense and even more varieties of jobs for people (old people and women would also be able to work past early retirement as opposed to the situation brought about by Ninja system which discriminated between the strong and the weak).

    If other nations (Ninja villages) observe these positive developments in Konoha, they would be greatly tempted to follow and emulate Konoha. All of these factors would set off a chain reaction and after approximately two decades, the world of Naruto would have superior education, peace, democracy, courts of justice and most significantly and hopefully, there would no longer be any incidents like the one happened with the Uchiha clan. Who knows, after all these positive happenings, Sasuke might even attempt to forgive his sworn enemies and finally quench his thirst for hatred without resorting to any violence and without having Naruto chase him around!

    P.S:

    It would be interesting if you guys/gals can come up with further suggestions/discussion/debate on how the first objective of Naruto can be fulfilled without abolishing the entire Ninja structure. Moreover, a fruitful direction of discussion might be: "Is there any better way for Naruto go about bringing Sasuke from darkness to light without chasing him around like he has been doing since the beginning of Part II?"

    P.S.S:

    Incidentally, anybody wanting to find out more about the details of life about Samurai and Ninja in an incredibly realistic historical setting, I would recommend you to take a look at the Manga entitled "Lone Wolf and Cub" which is one of the classic and best Mangas of all time.

  16. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Country
    Indonesia
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    I agree with THM's ideas of the Naruverse forming a sort of UNO with the 5 countries as the head councils. The concept would be that the smalller countries are neutral & when they want (including the big 5) to make a decision about something, one of the big 5 first makes a proposal, then some of the other members of the big 5 will say either say aye or nay & then after that, for the decision to be passed, both sides will have to lobby the smaller countries to support them. But the other smaller countries may also propose an alternative as well. Which means they to create a 3rd group or something like that.

  17. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  18. #11
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dhaka
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    1st objective:

    its an impossible one in the sense that no one solution/method can ensure eternal peace and total eradication of hatred.'bringing peace to shinobi world' is something like a changing concept.

    for example,1st hokage did 2 great things to achieve peace.1st to form the first village under a treaty and thus ending senju-uchiha bloodshed.and then by distributing bizuus he maintained the balance between villages.

    for his time those 2 were perfect solutions.but they ultimately led to more bloodshed,uchiha massacre and creation of akatsuki.

    however its not 1st's responsibility.he stopped hatred in a peaceful way in his time and he left the future for the next generations,that's the best a human can do.those peace-solutions of 1st has evolved into source of hatred,and that is why minato said that they need to be destroyed/renovated,but that doesn't mean this change will ensure peace forever from now on.in future they will show problems and next gens will have to find their own peaceful solution to peace.

    the very problem of pain's theory was that he didn't put any trust on the next gens.that's why he felt he has to follow the cycle of hatred and minimize the periods of instability as much as he can by forming one source of power(autocracy,like how kingdoms managed to hold countries together and lack of strong king meant a time of anarchy).

    so what naruto should do is concentrate on the problems in his time and solve them peacefully and trust the next generation to face hatreds of future in the same way.

    now if we take that point of view,the number2 objective is the real test for naruto.of course as long as sasuke doesn't become the single largest threat to peace,it won't feel so great.

    upto now naruto did a great job in defeating pain in a peaceful way and thus eradicating chain of hatred between rain and leaf.

    now the next threat is that of akatsuki and madara and also danzo and root.naruto should play an important role here to move further forward.

    then i believe sasuke will take the centre stage and the battle between him and naruto would be something upon which peace and hatred will depend,like madara vs hashirama.it will be more than personal.

    so basically i would include any real-time problem naruto and the shinobi world of present time is facing as the second objective (of which 'sasuke-crisis' is being developed as the greatest one eventually) and naruto needs to solve each of them without giving up his pacifism and nindo.thereby proving the 1st objective can be achieved in each time of each generation if they are ready to follow these ideals and beliefs.so the second objectives are the most important ones.

    about number3 objective:

    i really like it that naruto stopped chasing after hokage's post.as great dumbledore said:"those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it.those who have leadership thrust upon them,and take up mantle because they must,and find to their own surprise that they wear it well".(remember pain arc)

    for example:compare danzo and kakashi.

    naruto wanted hokage's seat even for a more trivial reason than that of danzo,and now he actually wants what a hokage should want:that is to protect everyone in and out of konoha,whether he is a hokage or not.

    by stopping to chase after becoming hokage, naruto has become more hokage-worthy imo,though he still needs to improve a lot (that is he needs to find realistic solutions to second objectives,like hashirama did)
    Last edited by ashher; January 16, 2010 at 05:17 AM.

  19. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SeventhPath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    now if we take that point of view,the number2 objective is the real test for naruto.of course as long as sasuke doesn't become the single largest threat to peace,it won't feel so great.

    upto now naruto did a great job in defeating pain in a peaceful way and thus eradicating chain of hatred between rain and leaf.

    now the next threat is that of akatsuki and madara and also danzo and root.naruto should play an important role here to move further forward.

    then i believe sasuke will take the centre stage and the battle between him and naruto would be something upon which peace and hatred will depend,like madara vs hashirama.it will be more than personal.

    so basically i would include any real-time problem naruto and the shinobi world of present time is facing as the second objective (of which 'sasuke-crisis' is being developed as the greatest one eventually) and naruto needs to solve each of them without giving up his pacifism and nindo.thereby proving the 1st objective can be achieved in each time of each generation if they are ready to follow these ideals and beliefs.so the second objectives are the most important ones.
    About Naruto playing a part in taking down Danzou or Madara - I'm highly skeptical. If the current fight in the manga ends with Danzou dying, you can be sure Naruto will be completely sidelined from these endeavors.

    I agree that Kishi will make Sasuke become the gretest threat to "peace" before Naruto converts him. I even know how Kishi'll probably do that - by having Sasuke defeat/kill Madara and gain control of the bijuu Akatsuki captured.
    Spoiler: Naruto Shippuuden, the manga - the past and the fututre show

  20. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  21. #13
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dhaka
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Quote Originally Posted by SeventhPath View Post
    About Naruto playing a part in taking down Danzou or Madara - I'm highly skeptical..
    well i always thought that one of them would be for naruto and another for sasuke.

    at the moment it seems highly unlikely that sasuke will kill danzo right now.

    anyways all about sasuke is nearly finished,his story revealed and dogma established.
    naruto's story is left almost intact and untold.since kishi said that this manga would go on for a long time,i think he will focus on naruto.

    the thing is kishi strove this long for making sasuke the villain and naruto the hero.so he will prolly concentrate on naruto as indicated by the attitudes of both madra and danzo and how post-akatsuki story gets concentrated on a war with jinchuurikis at the centre.

    about sasuke gaining control of bizuus,i think 90% of us predicts so.

  22. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SeventhPath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    @ashher

    Well, the Sasuke Danzou fight will soon reach its end - we'll see who's correct then.
    I think it will end with Danzou's death simply because Danzou showed his abilities, and in this manga, that means he'll be shortly dead.
    If he escapes, Kakashi will most likely deal with him.
    As for Naruto - Kishi said himself he doesn't want to use Naruto for anything important this year - and Danzou surviving until 2011 is highly improbable.

    Pain was, most likely, Naruto's villain - and he's already dead.
    Madara's almost certainly Sasuke's "final villain" - yes, he said he wants Naruto, but his actions negated this statement many times over (at the very least, Madara's much more interested in Sasuke than he is in Naruto); and yes, he "killed" Naruto's father, but Naruto couldn't care less about that when he next met Madara (as usual, all he cared about was his mancrush, Sasuke).

    You seem to think that, at some point in the future, Kishi will focus on Naruto again, ashher. I disagree - if Kishi will show Naruto, it's only in conjuction with his obsession for Sasuke - and I base my opinion on strong evidence: Kishi's own 2010 words and Naruto's development in Part 2.

    Quote Quote:
    about sasuke gaining control of bizuus,i think 90% of us predicts so.
    Good to hear. In this case, you should have posted something about it on the forum, though.
    Last edited by SeventhPath; January 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM.
    Spoiler: Naruto Shippuuden, the manga - the past and the fututre show

  23. #15
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dhaka
    Country
    Bangladesh
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,179
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto: Analysis and Solutions of His Goals and Objectives

    Quote Originally Posted by SeventhPath View Post
    @ashher

    Well, the Sasuke Danzou fight will soon reach its end - we'll see who's correct then.
    I think it will end with Danzou's death simply because Danzou showed his abilities, and in this manga, that means he'll be shortly dead.
    If he escapes, Kakashi will most likely deal with him.
    As for Naruto - Kishi said himself he doesn't want to use Naruto for anything important this year - and Danzou surviving until 2011 is highly improbable.

    Pain was, most likely, Naruto's villain - and he's already dead.
    Madara's almost certainly Sasuke's "final villain" - yes, he said he wants Naruto, but his actions negated this statement many times over (at the very least, Madara's much more interested in Sasuke than he is in Naruto); and yes, he "killed" Naruto's father, but Naruto couldn't care less about that when he next met Madara (as usual, all he cared about was his mancrush, Sasuke).

    You seem to think that, at some point in the future, Kishi will focus on Naruto again, ashher. I disagree - if Kishi will show Naruto, it's only in conjuction with his obsession for Sasuke - and I base my opinion on strong evidence: Kishi's own 2010 words and Naruto's development in Part 2.
    he said he will concentrate on sasuke,then kakashi.but why should that mean that he won't give naruto anything?in previous year he also didn't mention pain arc,instead just said that he will concentrate on sasuke.

    also he said that after fight with danzo sasuke's way will be cleared,so that basically means he has not much more to go on with in that direction currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeventhPath View Post
    Good to hear. In this case, you should have posted something about it on the forum, though.
    well in my previous sig i put a link to it,i think u'll find it if u search in "jyuubi will be released 100%" link or something like this.


    here found the link:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showp...60&postcount=5

    and the name of the thread is "naruto is gonna lose kyuubi 100%".
    Last edited by ashher; January 16, 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

New Reply
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts